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question about the Lincoln 1958/7
NateS
Posts: 26
hi all, new new collector here. i read through all of the threads in the forums on here and coppercoins (and saw how it was discredited) but couldnt find an image.
does anyone have a picture or can describe what the 1958/7 was "supposed" to look like?
thanks in advance!
does anyone have a picture or can describe what the 1958/7 was "supposed" to look like?
thanks in advance!
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I think there was a photo of the alleged 1958/7 in Sol Taylor's book on Lincoln Cents.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
For the life of me I can't easily distinguish these overdates from the normal issue. I guess I'll check out Sol Taylor's book as well. Thanks for the tip.
Edited to say:
...and before Russ has a chance to say it:
Fresh Meat
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
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or maybe a die chip, that as luck would have it...closely resembles a 8 over 7
breen listed this many years before the research deemed it as a non-variety due to overdate.
much like the 1980-D AND S
I believe the 1943/2-P Jefferson was the last definitive overdate produced by the mint for all U.S. coins series.
Ken
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
An unused working hub of the old date had either the last digit of the date or the last two digits of the date ground off. It was then used to sink a new master die with a partial date. The digit or digits of the new date were then entered into the new master die, either by hand engraving or by punching (I'm not sure which). The new master die was hardened and used to raise up several new working hubs that were used to create thousands of working dies.
It is speculated that at the end of 1957, the 7 was not entirely removed from the 1957 working hub. This left a trace of the 7 on the new master die, that was not obliterated when the 8 was entered in. At least one working hub still showed this trace of the 7, as did multiple working dies produced by it. Eventually the engraving staff noticed the blemish, and polished it off of the master die. Later working hubs do not show the trace of the 7.
A similar problem occurred on 1943 half dollar dies, many of which show a so-called "3/2" date. These are recognized as a hub defect, and are not generally collected as overdates. IMHO, the 1958/7 cent is just as uninteresting.
Tom DeLorey
The upper right corner of the 8 of the date on many (actually most) 1958 cents has a small bump, somewhat hook shaped, that appears as though it could possibly be the upper corner of a 7. Breen saw this and ran with it. Since then computer overlays have become the way to check possibilities, and overlays suggest that this small hump is in the wrong place to be the corner of a 7 from a 1957 date. Furthermore, earlier examples of the bump have a line running southwest through the 8 that to some further suggested the existance of a 7 on 1958 cents. To those who conducted overlays and actually studied the anomaly, the line made it further apparent that this anomaly was a concentric die gouge paralleling the rim of the design, not a 7 digit. It is in the wrong place, runs at the wrong angle, and is very thin whereas the actual 7 digit of a 1957 cent is very thick.
So...the reason we still see a lot of examples of this "overdate" in because people are still using a 25 year old guide to make something into something it is not.
A picture of the anomaly shouldn't be necessary - over half of all 1958 cents have the same anomaly to some degree. It's a small hump on the upper right loop of the 8. Take a look at a few BU examples and you should easily spot it. I have been through hundreds of BU rolls of 1958 cents and see these more often than I see clean examples without the hump.
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By the way, welcome, Nate. And the best picture I've ever seen of the 8/7 is on page 232 of Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of US and Colonial Coins. It looks like an overdate to me, but maybe it's not. Either way, there are so many as to make it lose it's cherrypicking appeal.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
i took a few digicam pics of the one i found... all three shots are the same coin at different angles. kinda blurry, but the digital zoom on the camera isnt great
it strangely enough looked like a 7 on top of an 8 which didnt make any sense to me, but i guess the more i look at it, the less it's a 7 and just a cut up 8.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>still cant get a good pic from my digital camera, but its clearer now. i kept the 195 because without it, you'd think the "8" was just a mess
The 8 is a mess. Actually, it's damaged, having been partially sheared probably by a counting machine. The "real alleged" 8/7 looks like the picture I posted, but as coppercoins said, it's nothing special.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
and to pharmer, its neither. i've no reason to edit the image, and the coin was found while sifting through an alhambra tank of random coins. no need thinking its something decietful =
oh n also, here's a better photo, just so pharm knows it wasnt some cheap trick
2006 interesting
Yep... This topic has been discussed many, many, many times in the past. Cheers, RickO