Yanks Clinch Home Field Throughout

thegemmintman

Yanks won tonight, and Detroit and Minny both lost. So based on tie breakers it's a done deal.

RickyHendersonSD

Boo Hoo. Congrats but SD will beat them in a 1998 rematch of the World Serious as the team with the best record in baseball goes down.

Boopotts

Wonderful. I'm sure the entire free world is rejoicing. A team with a payroll that exceeds the GNP of most African countries clinches home field? Proof positive that miracles DO happen!

thegemmintman

<< <i>Wonderful. I'm sure the entire free world is rejoicing. A team with a payroll that exceeds the GNP of most African countries clinches home field? Proof positive that miracles DO happen! >>




Rather hostile tonight aren't we?

RickyHendersonSD

Hey thegemmintman, it is time to "Choose Your Title". By the way, are you a Spammy clone? According to Axhole any Yankee fan who has an ID which was created in the year 2001 is an Alt.

Boopotts, what team do you root for? I can't tell from your avatar.

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>Wonderful. I'm sure the entire free world is rejoicing. A team with a payroll that exceeds the GNP of most African countries clinches home field? Proof positive that miracles DO happen! >>



why don't you cry some more? I'm sure the scammers who run the African union aren't complaining, why are you?


Congrats to the Yankees, funny how all the talk about the Yankees not going to the playoffs really shut the hell up when the Yankees proved why, well they are the Yankees.

thegemmintman

<< <i>Hey thegemmintman, it is time to "Choose Your Title". By the way, are you a Spammy clone? According to Axhole any Yankee fan who has an ID which was created in the year 2001 is an Alt. >>




I won't choose a title. It's my only way of protesting the Open Forum closing. Spammy alt? No

You know you really need to post more. 283 time total in 4 1/2 years just doesn't cut it!

softparade

All of the talk by alot of these same guys early in the year centered on the Yankees supposed poor farm system, how they would struggle to make the playoffs, how bad the pitching was, how bad management is, etc, etc, etc, ...... OF COURSE the payroll angle is the last gasp crutch to lean on for them. Payroll only matters when the team actually finishes in first place. But when teams like the dismal Boston Red Sox are fighting for their lives to not fall into third place in the DIVISION even with the 2nd highest PAYROLL in the game nothing is mentioned. Bottom line .... SOUR GRAPES

whatever man ....... its PLAYOFF time !!!!!! For some of us anyway

ToppsCo1lector

Right on Parade.

thegemmintman

<< <i>But when teams like the dismal Boston Red Sox are fighting for their lives to not fall into third place in the DIVISION even with the 2nd highest PAYROLL in the game nothing is mentioned. Bottom line .... SOUR GRAPES >>




Good point!


You know the Yanks have made the playoffs for 12 straight years now with 6 World Series appearances Highest payroll or not, that's incredible.

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>Wonderful. I'm sure the entire free world is rejoicing. A team with a payroll that exceeds the GNP of most African countries clinches home field? Proof positive that miracles DO happen! >>



why don't you cry some more? I'm sure the scammers who run the African union aren't complaining, why are you?


Congrats to the Yankees, funny how all the talk about the Yankees not going to the playoffs really shut the hell up when the Yankees proved why, well they are the Yankees. >>



Uh, what?

Axtell

<< <i>

<< <i>Wonderful. I'm sure the entire free world is rejoicing. A team with a payroll that exceeds the GNP of most African countries clinches home field? Proof positive that miracles DO happen! >>




Rather hostile tonight aren't we? >>



hahah

it's funny whenever people point out a fact (the ridiculous nature of the yankees team payroll), you're painted as 'hostile' by the ignorant yankee 'fans' here.

Why is it newsworthy that a team with that kind of payroll advantage wins anything? Shouldn't they win EVERY year?

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>But when teams like the dismal Boston Red Sox are fighting for their lives to not fall into third place in the DIVISION even with the 2nd highest PAYROLL in the game nothing is mentioned. Bottom line .... SOUR GRAPES >>




Good point!


You know the Yanks have made the playoffs for 12 straight years now with 6 World Series appearances Highest payroll or not, that's incredible. >>




That actually is quite impressive, and a testament to the fact that the Yankees are a well run organiztion.

Axtell

<< <i>

<< <i>But when teams like the dismal Boston Red Sox are fighting for their lives to not fall into third place in the DIVISION even with the 2nd highest PAYROLL in the game nothing is mentioned. Bottom line .... SOUR GRAPES >>




Good point!


You know the Yanks have made the playoffs for 12 straight years now with 6 World Series appearances Highest payroll or not, that's incredible. >>



When they win the division 14 straight years like the braves did, with a fraction of the payroll, talk to me about 'incredible'.

ToppsCo1lector

Yet, the Braves won how many world series in that time period? Not to incredible then.

Boopotts

<< <i>All of the talk by alot of these same guys early in the year centered on the Yankees supposed poor farm system, how they would struggle to make the playoffs, how bad the pitching was, how bad management is, etc, etc, etc, ...... OF COURSE the payroll angle is the last gasp crutch to lean on for them. Payroll only matters when the team actually finishes in first place. But when teams like the dismal Boston Red Sox are fighting for their lives to not fall into third place in the DIVISION even with the 2nd highest PAYROLL in the game nothing is mentioned. Bottom line .... SOUR GRAPES

whatever man ....... its PLAYOFF time !!!!!! For some of us anyway >>




FWIW I hold the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees in similarly low esteem. And no, it isn't simply a function of payroll, and I don't think I've ever said that. Only a fool would argue that the Yankees aren't a well run franchise, or that Brian Cashman isn't a very good GM.

But I just don't make a habit of rooting for teams that have a competitive advantage over other teams-- and I really don't care which teams are involved. I don't root for USC over Troy St., I didn't root for the Soviet Bloc Olympic teams over teams that actually fielded amateur athletes, and I don't root for baseball teams that, by virtue of their obscene payrolls, are able to field markedly superior squads to other teams in the league.

Do the Yankees have a good farm system. I think they do. The evidence, anyway, would certainly appear to bear that out. And, like I said, they're a well run team. I like Joe Torre, and think he's a class act, and I feel similarly about Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Hideki Matsui and some of the other guys on the team. But in a sense that's all beside the point-- at least for the purposes of our discussion here.

Who did you root for in 'Hoosiers?' The team from Hickory, or the team from Indianapolis? When you turn on the Winter Olympics and catch the end of some random luge event, do you find yourself pulling for the dour Norweigan who broke 15 world records in the past 6 years and has enjoyed the world's finest training facilities since he was four years old, or the guys with dreadlocks from Trinidad/Tobago? If you chose the second choice in either of these examples then ask yourself this: 'Why was I rooting for that particular team/athlete'? And the answer, in most cases, boils down to the fact that it's almost a human instinct to root AGAINST teams, or players, that have a competitive advantage.

By competitive advantage I mean that something exists, exogeneous to the team (or player), that affords them a better chance of winning. In other words, if you assume that all other factors remain constant this exogeneous element will give one team/player an advantage over another. Take steroids, for instance. If you take two players who have equal native talents, and who have trained equally hard, the player who uses steroids will, on the average, enjoy superior results to the player who didn't. THAT'S why we don't like steroids. If Bud Selig mandated that EVERYONE in the leaque shoot turkey basters full of 'roids into their buttocks we wouldn't give the subject a second thought. Similarly, this is why many sports fans find payroll discrepancies so revolting. If you assume everything else is equal-- two teams with front offices that have similar aptitudes, managers who are identical in their abilities, and so on-- the team with the higher payroll stands a better chance of winning.

Of course, nothing is guaranteed. You can ingest steroids until your penis turns black and falls off in your jock and you may not hit better than the guy behind you in the order who's clean and just happens to be more talented. And, by extention, having a huge payroll relative to the other teams in your league doesn't assure you of success in October, or even in July, August or September (see the Red Sox' 06 campaign, or some of the results that those Orioles teams put up in the late '90's). But the fact that it's not a guarantee doesn't mean it isn't unpalatable.

Axtell

<< <i>Yet, the Braves won how many world series in that time period? Not to incredible then. >>



Not too incredible that the yankees, in spite of an overwhelming competitive advantage, haven't won the world series in half a decade.

ToppsCo1lector

hahahaha. Us Yankee fans are quite content with 26.

Boopotts

<< <i>Yet, the Braves won how many world series in that time period? Not to incredible then. >>




Here you guys go again--- laboring over the RESULTS of these trials (or seasons, as is the case here), when the actual results are not relevant to the discussion. The issue is one of competitive advantage, and whether a competitive advantage exists is not determined strictly by short term results.

Jason Grimsley was a cheater. But does the fact that he wasn't half the pitcher that, say, Pedro Martinez is mean that we should ignore the fact that he cheated?

Axtell

<< <i>hahahaha. Us Yankee fans are quite content with 26. >>



Of course you are....when you enjoy such a ridiculous competitive advantage, you are going to win more titles than any other team. Gloating about them simply proves you are a fan of the championships and not the team.

ToppsCo1lector

But I don't believe ANY team has cheated because, there is no salary cap(or minimum for that matter) in the MLB. So all this "banter" about payroll doesn't concern me. Why should I feel bad that your favorite team chooses not to put as much into the team as my teams owner does? You get where I'm coming from BooPotts?

Axtell

<< <i>But I don't believe ANY team has cheated because, there is no salary cap(or minimum for that matter) in the MLB. So all this "banter" about payroll doesn't concern me. Why should I feel bad that your favorite team chooses not to put as much into the team as my teams owner does? You get where I'm coming from BooPotts? >>



You still don't get it do you?

The yankees have an unnatural advantage based solely on where they play. Do you think that any owner wouldn't love to have $200 million to dump on payroll?

Just because the NY media market is the biggest, doesn't make steinbrenner any better of an owner - just one with more resources.

Boopotts

<< <i>But I don't believe ANY team has cheated because, there is no salary cap(or minimum for that matter) in the MLB. So all this "banter" about payroll doesn't concern me. Why should I feel bad that your favorite team chooses not to put as much into the team as my teams owner does? You get where I'm coming from BooPotts? >>




Well, I don't know that you should feel 'bad'. What I am saying, though, is that other teams are not in a position to put as much money into their rosters as the New York Yankees, by virtue of the fact that they don't enjoy the same revenue streams.

It's like college football. You can say, I guess, that East Carolina 'chooses not to put as much money into their football program' as, say, the University of Miami, but if they don't have the revenue available to build superior practice facilities, or to hire a top-tier coach, or to pay their players outright (hehe), then you would necessarily conclude that Miami has a competitive advantage over East Carolina.

grote15

You still don't get it do you?

The yankees have an unnatural advantage based solely on where they play. Do you think that any owner wouldn't love to have $200 million to dump on payroll?

Just because the NY media market is the biggest, doesn't make steinbrenner any better of an owner - just one with more resources.

Ax, you really are a broken record. Just sit back and watch the damn games, will ya?

Boopotts

<< <i>Hey thegemmintman, it is time to "Choose Your Title". By the way, are you a Spammy clone? According to Axhole any Yankee fan who has an ID which was created in the year 2001 is an Alt.

Boopotts, what team do you root for? I can't tell from your avatar. >>




I live outside of Detroit, so I'm basically a Tigers/Pistons?Redwings/Lions fan, although wiith baseball it gets a little more muddled since I grew up in St. Louis and used to watch a ton of Cubs and Braves games on the superstations. I also have a peculiar appreciation for the A's after reading Moneyball.

Axtell

<< <i>
Ax, you really are a broken record. Just sit back and watch the damn games, will ya? >>



Well, until you dopey yankee fans understand, I am going to repeat the same information.

No, steinbrenner doesn't want to win any more than any other owner, he is simply has a financial advantage being in the US's #1 media market - plain and simple. Based on that revenue (which no other team has), he is able to dump more money into his team's payroll than any other.

How can you honestly sit there and say george wants to win 'more' than anyone else, simply based on team payroll?

ToppsCo1lector

Yes, I can honestly say Steinbrenner wants to win more.

Boopotts

<< <i>Yes, I can honestly say Steinbrenner wants to win more. >>



I wouldn't argue that either-- but again, if we're discussing competitive advantage then this point is immaterial.

Axtell

<< <i>Yes, I can honestly say Steinbrenner wants to win more. >>



On what grounds? Because he has the resources to spend more than anyone else, and his team has the highest salary?

What possible justification can you come up with that makes you honestly say george wants to win more than any other owner?

grote15

On what grounds? Because he has the resources to spend more than anyone else, and his team has the highest salary?

What possible justification can you come up with that makes you honestly say george wants to win more than any other owner?

If you truly need to ask these questions, there's no hope in enlightening you so why bother? Seattle is a wealthy town, but year after year they put crap on the field and expect fans like you to believe there's hope for the future.

Steinbrenner may be a pompous bully but there's no question that he does whatever he can to win. More owners should take a lesson from him and stop lining their pockets.

yankeeno7

Here we go with all of Axhole's crying AGAIN!

I love how people can sit there and whine about competative advantage and payroll...and then on the other side of their mouth they talk how the Yankees havent won the world series in 6 years.

Do you understand what you are saying? You don't even realize that the point you are making is that no matter how much money you put in payroll, it doesnt guarantee you to win! DUH!

At this point it's the last crutch to argue with. Though the Yankees are looking very strong right now, it doesnt guarantee a world series win. Those guys still have to go out and play as a team...even though they have one pretty boy nicknamed ARod who doesnt know what that is. He still hasnt grasped that there is more to baseball than his own individual stats. When he stops worrying about that, maybe he will earn his pinstripes.

Worry about what your favorite team's management is doing to put the BEST PRODUCT on the field and quit whining about those who do try......and enjoy the playoffs!

jlbsquared

<< <i>No, steinbrenner doesn't want to win any more than any other owner, he is simply has a financial advantage being in the US's #1 media market >>



This must be true, since the Mets play in the same market, and they win all the time too.

WinPitcher

Did any of you know that the owner of the Twins is a billionaire? The other day he was qouted as saying that he too could put 200 million into his team yet he chooses not to.

Steinbrenner chooses too. I am sure that of the 30 teams many others could as well. they choose not too. also if you were a free agent and a superstar and Pittsburgh offerred you 20 mil a yr and Ny did who would you go to?


Stop this crying about payroll. This is baseball, games are won on the field not on paper.

Steve

thegemmintman

<< <i>Not too incredible that the yankees, in spite of an overwhelming competitive advantage, haven't won the world series in half a decade. >>




Axtroll, that's perhaps the worst argument you've made yet. A high payroll guarantees nothing. I remember not so long ago when the Mets and Dodgers at different times had the highest payroll, and both sucked, neither even making the playoffs.

That's ok, go watch your video tape of the 1995 Division Series win for the Suckiners, and you'll feel better.

softparade

<< <i>
But I just don't make a habit of rooting for teams that have a competitive advantage over other teams-- and I really don't care which teams are involved. I don't root for USC over Troy St., I didn't root for the Soviet Bloc Olympic teams over teams that actually fielded amateur athletes, and I don't root for baseball teams that, by virtue of their obscene payrolls, are able to field markedly superior squads to other teams in the league.

>>



My NY Yankee habit began loooong before I was aware of revenue, payroll, large market, small market, etc, etc, etc. Boo, if you look at ALL money making teams in the same way then more power to you. What bothers me are the guys who point fingers at the Yankees and at the same time root for teams that also have single players that make more or nearly as much as the true bottom feeder teams OR root for teams that have VASTLY wealthy ownership who would never poor their own money into the team for the sole reason of winning.

Wabittwax

Many teams do dump big sums of money into payroll to take a shot at a World Series. Many times it works. The problem is 90% of the league can't afford those same players the next year or two. Many have to take a loss to try to win a World Series. The Yankees don't have to do that. When I lived in Phoenix, I watched the Diamondbacks dismantle the 2001 Championship team 1 player at a time (including Randy Johnson!) until they sucked something aweful. That's no fun for any sports fan outside of New York and Boston. I could give crap less about Baseball anymore. It's no fun to the rest of the country.

And, I'll be rooting for whoever plays the Yankees.

Axtell

<< <i>Did any of you know that the owner of the Twins is a billionaire? The other day he was qouted as saying that he too could put 200 million into his team yet he chooses not to. >>



Please cite a source for this quote...otherwise, you're a liar.



<< <i>Steinbrenner chooses too. I am sure that of the 30 teams many others could as well. they choose not too. also if you were a free agent and a superstar and Pittsburgh offerred you 20 mil a yr and Ny did who would you go to? >>



You still don't get it...he CHOOSES to because he has the REVENUES to dump into his team. REVENUES no other team has! Why is that so f'ing difficult for you all to understand?

You yankee 'fans' will never, EVER admit that the yankees are in a position that allows them to spend MORE on payroll than any other team can - based simply on their geographical location - it has NOTHING with steinbrenner wanting to win 'more' than any other team.

thegemmintman

<< <i>You yankee 'fans' will never, EVER admit that the yankees are in a position that allows them to spend MORE on payroll than any other team can - based simply on their geographical location >>




Who here denies that the Yankees have a geographic advantage? It's a huge market, but the fact remains that Steinbrenner is willing to spend it and whatever penalties come with it, and owners like the Twin's Billionaire Carl Pohlad (ranked 78th richest American in 2005 according to Forbes) isn't willing. Steinbrenner plays by the rules. Why do you keep whining about someone who plays by the rules? Go complain to MLB and the Mariners.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>hahahaha. Us Yankee fans are quite content with 26. >>



How many of those were you actually alive for? Typical Yankee pseudo-fan arrogance.

ToppsCo1lector

^^
So why don't the Mets win as often then? Do they not play in the exact same media market dumbchit?

softparade

<< <i>

<< <i>hahahaha. Us Yankee fans are quite content with 26. >>



How many of those were you actually alive for? Typical Yankee pseudo-fan arrogance. >>



typical my a$$ ..... what IS TYPICAL are those who are arrogant enough to feel that Yankee fans are not allowed to enjoy their succesful history. Jerry, don't you DARE mention or allow children who were born after the Red SOx championship to know about that team.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>But I don't believe ANY team has cheated because, there is no salary cap(or minimum for that matter) in the MLB. So all this "banter" about payroll doesn't concern me. Why should I feel bad that your favorite team chooses not to put as much into the team as my teams owner does? You get where I'm coming from BooPotts? >>



These threads are hopeless.

Yankee "fans", like this one here, really believe this nonsense! They think that Steinbrenner really "wants to win" more than any other owner, and they "can't be bothered" with talking about payroll. Forget all the facts that are continually presented that show why the Yankees are able to work the current system unlike any other team can, they don't matter.

And Yankee fans wonder why so many fans of other teams can't stand them.

thegemmintman

Steinbrenner could field a good team with a chance to win for $50 million less and pocket the money. I'm curious, why doesn't he do that?

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>

<< <i>But I don't believe ANY team has cheated because, there is no salary cap(or minimum for that matter) in the MLB. So all this "banter" about payroll doesn't concern me. Why should I feel bad that your favorite team chooses not to put as much into the team as my teams owner does? You get where I'm coming from BooPotts? >>



These threads are hopeless.

Yankee "fans", like this one here, really believe this nonsense! They think that Steinbrenner really "wants to win" more than any other owner, and they "can't be bothered" with talking about payroll. Forget all the facts that are continually presented that show why the Yankees are able to work the current system unlike any other team can, they don't matter.

And Yankee fans wonder why so many fans of other teams can't stand them. >>



Boston spent the 2nd most in the MLB. They are in third place in their division. Shouldn't you be complaining about that? Oh thats right, it's the Yankees fault. Steinbrenner DOES want to win more.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>Boston spent the 2nd most in the MLB. They are in third place in their division. Shouldn't you be complaining about that? Oh thats right, it's the Yankees fault. Steinbrenner DOES want to win more.
>>




This is not the point, and let's repeat once again an important fact -

The Yankees payroll, including Abreu's and Lidle's salary dumps, is almost twice the Red Sox payroll. Twice! So, yes the Sox are "number two", but to use that as a justification for the Yankees ridiculous advantage is ludicrous. The Sox spent a lot of money to try and keep pace with the Yankees, and they will have to do it again next year too, until MLB realizes that a salary cap will be necessary to maintain competitive balance.

And yes, I am complaining about Boston being in third. It does indeed suck.

But, not as much as the Yankees do.

softparade

<< <i> Boston spent the 2nd most in the MLB. They are in third place in their division. Shouldn't you be complaining about that? Oh thats right, it's the Yankees fault. Steinbrenner DOES want to win more. >>



Steinbrenner cares about winning MORE then most owners. Absolutley he does .... he is obsessed with it. To deny that is really just not knowing AT ALL what you are talking about.

Also, the Red SOx fan loves to hide behind the Yankee payroll because the Yankees do distance them by alot. However, facts are facts. And it is a FACT that the Red Sox outspend EVERY team in baseball except the Yankees. They love to hide behind the Yankee shadow and toss rocks just like they are a Royal fan ..... how sad.

If I were a Red SOx fan I would be concerned about how the #2 payroll in the game became such a white elephant so quick and are in danger of falling into 3rd place. I would be worried about the sad pitching, the sad results from their "vaunted" farm system, and the sad results from a pi$$ poor GM who left the Sox at the alter at the trading deadline. Then tried to pass it off like this was all about some grand plan they have

ToppsCo1lector

You've heard me say it numerous times, the MLB needs a salary minimum and max. So why are you complaining to me instead of the MLB? I'm not saying the Yankees are playing on a level playing field, BUT they are playing within the rules that have been drawn up. So what? Your whining about something that ANY MLB team could do. Point out one of these "poor owners" for me? None are. That's why no regular joe owns a team.

softparade

Hey jlbsquared, LOVE that sig man

onlyanumber

I love how the Yankee haters bring up certain facts and leave out others:

Facts that are mentioned: Yankees have an incredible payroll. Yes they do. They also have a lucrative television deal that helps them to maintain that payroll.

If more teams would take advantage of that angle and network themselves, maybe they could compete.

Facts that are overlooked: By having that large payroll, Yankees are paying out luxury taxes to the lesser fortunate teams.

That's the price the Yankees are willing to pay to put the best product (in their eyes) out on the field. Your Milwaukee, Kansas City and Pittsburgh don't seem to mind so much. Change the system and cap a team and see how things may change. Until there is change, you cannot argue about it.

Don't forget, for all the money the Yankees spend, they know how to market themselves. They infiltrate every city, state and country to the point where the brand marketability is right up there with the Pepsi's and Disney's. They got themselves a big star from Japan and opened up that Japanese market to Yankee merchandise. Geez, watch a Yankee game sometime haters--look at the advertising in Yankee Stadium--a good percentage is in Japanese. I wonder why? They force feed #2 and #13 jerseys into every market and people buy them. Why? Because people connotate Yankees with champions. Drive through Tampa sometime haters--you find more Yankee merchandise worn and available than Devil Ray merchandise.

I feel bad for the Red Sox fans--I really do. The Red Sox try to compete every year and up until this season, due to unfortunate injuries and an indecisive front office ( which marred that team before the season started), typically make things interesting. But those Red Sox fans suffer--their front office won't spend the money and instead let teams like the Yankees grab the players in most cases to keep them away from Boston (see Canseco in 2000, Abreu/Lidle this year). And the kick in the pants for the Red Sox fans? By trying to compete they take it out on the fans--it costs a fan 80 dollars more to go to a Red Sox game than a Yankee game. Average MLB ticket price/fan cost I would love to see the Red Sox get themselves their own network and charge the average Joe Schmo fans a few bucks a month to watch their Sox on tv. Then they could spend more on their product and make things interesting every year, or if anything save the stadium going fan a couple of bucks...

grote15

It's sort if ironic how Sox fans have suddenly become so incensed at payroll disparities. With the #2 payroll in MLB and a third place finish to show for it, I'm surprised to hear anything out of that camp.

WinPitcher

it costs a fan 80 dollars more to go to a Red Sox game than a Yankee game


WOW it costs almost 300.00 to see a game up in boston as opposed to 200.00 in Ny.

I wonder how the current sox fans will spin that one.

Steve