Whoopsie- I blew it in that last post. Was trying to post two at once and ended up posting a single red X.
Here they are.
Coxe- my very first Shield nickel (an 1866 w/Rays that I bought in the summer of 1977 for seven bucks) had exactly the look yours does. That brings back fond memories.
ElderFlatus- what are you doin' over here on the Liteside? Wow, and wow. Those are textbook CircCams! Groovy!
pcgs69- ooh lah lah. I have never had a piece of 18th century US silver. Just coppers. My earliest silver was something like 1802-ish. That's... tasty.
Maximianus, 286-305 AD. Galerius, 305-311 AD. Constantine I, 307-337 AD. Constantine I, 307-337 AD. Licinius I, 308-324 AD. Constans I, 337-350 AD. Constantine II, 337-340 AD. Constantius II, 337-361 AD.
Sorry to break up the parade, but circulation cameos in almost all cases, are coins where the patina has been removed after the coin had been removed from circulation. They are coins where the devices and lettering have been rubbed after the coin had acquired some patina to bring out the devices.
I'm old enough to remember what old circulated silver coins looked like when I pulled them out of circulation. They were generally light colored except perhaps around the lettering or crevices in the design. After removed from circulation, the coins darken evenly unless they are subsequently fingered or rubbed with a cloth or wipe. Most cameos are coins that were removed from circulation, rubbed or gently wiped after a certain period of time, and have since toned some more to create an appearance that fools most coin collectors into thinking that the coin has never been messed with.
Frankly, I love the appearance of circulation cameos. I am very attracted to their "look", particularly in CBHDs. But it is my belief that these coins are not strictly untouched, purely original coins. They have received some past burishing or handling to achieve that coveted appearance.
I would welcome your comments on my thinking here.
<< <i>Sorry to break up the parade, but circulation cameos in almost all cases, are coins where the patina has been removed after the coin had been removed from circulation. They are coins where the devices and lettering have been rubbed after the coin had acquired some patina to bring out the devices. >>
Well, duh, tell us something we didn't already know. How's that break up the parade? A coin acquired patina and then went back into circulation or whatever, and got some rub on the high points. (Edit: oh, I think I see- you believe it was a deliberate rather than accidental process?)
<< <i>Frankly, I love the appearance of circulation cameos. I am very attracted to their "look", particularly in CBHDs. But it is my belief that these coins are not strictly untouched, purely original coins. They have received some past burishing or handling to achieve that coveted appearance. >>
So what. Circulation is "handling". What difference does it make if a coin got some post-patina rub while in circulation, or after it entered collector channels? (Oh, you're so right about those CBHDs. Those and the Draped ones are the greatest CircCams).
<< <i>I would welcome your comments on my thinking here. >>
Okay. I now think I do sort of see where you're coming from in your contention that the CircCam coins are possibly not 100% "original", whatever that means. It is a numismatic term I am growing to despise, though admittedly I still use it myself from time to time, with ever-decreasing confidence.
However, I am not sure I totally agree. In some cases, sure. But I think CircCams could occur as a result of circulation. In the case of my recent "DirtCams" post of Roman coins above, the "cameo" effect most certainly did NOT come about as a result of circulation, but rather from a partial cleaning of the high points that left the rest of the sandy desert patina intact. I guess this is what you might be suggesting about the other coins we are discussing; that they got partially cleaned?
In some cases, yes, I suppose so, but I think not in every case. Putting a toned or patinated coin into one's pocket can cause such a result, I think, though usually the edges and rims get rubbed clean at the same time. Perhaps it is a byproduct of the old collector's cabinets, where the coins lay on trays in drawers, and the slight friction of the trays affected the high points on them?
Another reason I am thoroughly enjoying my new Roman coin pursuit is that this hypervigilance over "originality" is not present. Practically ALL ancient coins (at least the nongold ones) have been cleaned at one time or another, and most slept in the earth for centuries or millennia before entering collector channels (which necessitates cleaning, obviously). Cleaning is not taboo at all, though there are still good cleanings and bad cleanings, and fake patina is a no-no.
Cam-Slam 2-6-04 3 "DAMMIT BOYS" 4 "YOU SUCKS" Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized) Seated Halves are my specialty ! Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE ! Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!! (1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe ! IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
I find CircCams to be a bit unusual on copper and bronze. This was the nicest of the pieces I got from part of a hoard which Andy Lustig (MrEureka) was selling a while ago, which was in turn part of a truly gigantic hoard. Interestingly, all the pieces Andy had were 1811 or 1826, both of which are better dates. Whoever hoarded them must have been paying attention to that.
Who has some other CircCam copper? It's perhaps not as appealing a look on copper, since the high points will be unnaturally red looking, but I find it handsome enough on the example above.
A pending newp from a respected Dansco 7070 collector. I will be buying the coin raw as it was cracked out, but the insert is included in the sale.
The light CircCam contrast cinched it for me. I didn't know I was in the market for a Seated dollar; it just kind of happened that way. I bought this for resale. I think I might start trying to specialize a little in CircCam material. It fits, because I cannot always afford to play in the MS grade ranges, and have always been more comfortable in the circulated grades anyway, where the grade splits are not so tiny and are much easier to determine. I happen to strongly agree with the PCGS grade on this piece. What say ye?
<< <i>A pending newp from a respected Dansco 7070 collector. I will be buying the coin raw as it was cracked out, but the insert is included in the sale.
The light CircCam contrast cinched it for me. I didn't know I was in the market for a Seated dollar; it just kind of happened that way. I bought this for resale. I think I might start trying to specialize a little in CircCam material. It fits, because I cannot always afford to play in the MS grade ranges, and have always been more comfortable in the circulated grades anyway, where the grade splits are not so tiny and are much easier to determine. I happen to strongly agree with the PCGS grade on this piece. What say ye? >>
You should absolutely do this, and when you do I'll be one of your best customers. I'm 100% on the CircCam™ bandwagon, right now I'm shifting focus from the error sets (not for lack of interest but because there aren't many around to fit my sets) to a VF-ish CircCam™ 7070 set and a date set of G/VG CircCam™ Barber quarters (minus the three big keys for now). Here are a couple of coins from the 7070, I also have an awesome seated dime to imasge and crack from it's off-brand plastic.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
That 1806 Half has to be the ultimate "circ. cam". Gorgeous! ! !
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Circulation cameo. That is a wonderful concept lordmarcovan. It's immediately apparent what you mean even without seeing one.
Here's mine. It was the first CBH I ever bought. The way the CBHs wear they make really nice CircCams, especially the obverse. That's what made me buy this one.
In appreciation for Rob's seal of approval on my BST listing, here is what I would call CircCam, what do you think?
Don
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
Ha, that's cool! That 1830 was my 2nd favorite in my bust half collection, way back when I collected the big coins. This is the second coin I've come across on the boards today that I used to own. I'm glad to see someone is still enjoying it and it's still in the forum "family". Also, kinda cool to see my photo still being used hehe.
Ha, that's cool! That 1830 was my 2nd favorite in my bust half collection, way back when I collected the big coins. This is the second coin I've come across on the boards today that I used to own. I'm glad to see someone is still enjoying it and it's still in the forum "family". Also, kinda cool to see my photo still being used hehe.
>>
Beautiful bust half, that one has both "two_tone" and "CircCam" going on. I love "two_toned" coins as much as the CircCams.
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Comments
Here they are.
Coxe- my very first Shield nickel (an 1866 w/Rays that I bought in the summer of 1977 for seven bucks) had exactly the look yours does. That brings back fond memories.
ElderFlatus- what are you doin' over here on the Liteside? Wow, and wow. Those are textbook CircCams! Groovy!
pcgs69- ooh lah lah. I have never had a piece of 18th century US silver. Just coppers. My earliest silver was something like 1802-ish. That's... tasty.
–John Adams, 1826
Maximianus, 286-305 AD.
Galerius, 305-311 AD.
Constantine I, 307-337 AD.
Constantine I, 307-337 AD.
Licinius I, 308-324 AD.
Constans I, 337-350 AD.
Constantine II, 337-340 AD.
Constantius II, 337-361 AD.
Worn out
This is worn out----1920-S
Jim
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
I love this 21D
I'm old enough to remember what old circulated silver coins looked like when I pulled them out of circulation. They were generally light colored except perhaps around the lettering or crevices in the design. After removed from circulation, the coins darken evenly unless they are subsequently fingered or rubbed with a cloth or wipe. Most cameos are coins that were removed from circulation, rubbed or gently wiped after a certain period of time, and have since toned some more to create an appearance that fools most coin collectors into thinking that the coin has never been messed with.
Frankly, I love the appearance of circulation cameos. I am very attracted to their "look", particularly in CBHDs. But it is my belief that these coins are not strictly untouched, purely original coins. They have received some past burishing or handling to achieve that coveted appearance.
I would welcome your comments on my thinking here.
<< <i>Sorry to break up the parade, but circulation cameos in almost all cases, are coins where the patina has been removed after the coin had been removed from circulation. They are coins where the devices and lettering have been rubbed after the coin had acquired some patina to bring out the devices. >>
Well, duh, tell us something we didn't already know. How's that break up the parade? A coin acquired patina and then went back into circulation or whatever, and got some rub on the high points. (Edit: oh, I think I see- you believe it was a deliberate rather than accidental process?)
<< <i>Frankly, I love the appearance of circulation cameos. I am very attracted to their "look", particularly in CBHDs. But it is my belief that these coins are not strictly untouched, purely original coins. They have received some past burishing or handling to achieve that coveted appearance. >>
So what. Circulation is "handling". What difference does it make if a coin got some post-patina rub while in circulation, or after it entered collector channels? (Oh, you're so right about those CBHDs. Those and the Draped ones are the greatest CircCams).
<< <i>I would welcome your comments on my thinking here. >>
Okay. I now think I do sort of see where you're coming from in your contention that the CircCam coins are possibly not 100% "original", whatever that means. It is a numismatic term I am growing to despise, though admittedly I still use it myself from time to time, with ever-decreasing confidence.
However, I am not sure I totally agree. In some cases, sure. But I think CircCams could occur as a result of circulation. In the case of my recent "DirtCams" post of Roman coins above, the "cameo" effect most certainly did NOT come about as a result of circulation, but rather from a partial cleaning of the high points that left the rest of the sandy desert patina intact. I guess this is what you might be suggesting about the other coins we are discussing; that they got partially cleaned?
In some cases, yes, I suppose so, but I think not in every case. Putting a toned or patinated coin into one's pocket can cause such a result, I think, though usually the edges and rims get rubbed clean at the same time. Perhaps it is a byproduct of the old collector's cabinets, where the coins lay on trays in drawers, and the slight friction of the trays affected the high points on them?
Another reason I am thoroughly enjoying my new Roman coin pursuit is that this hypervigilance over "originality" is not present. Practically ALL ancient coins (at least the nongold ones) have been cleaned at one time or another, and most slept in the earth for centuries or millennia before entering collector channels (which necessitates cleaning, obviously). Cleaning is not taboo at all, though there are still good cleanings and bad cleanings, and fake patina is a no-no.
3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
4 "YOU SUCKS"
Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
Seated Halves are my specialty !
Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
(1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF
Dumb question: half, or quarter?
–John Adams, 1826
If you care to guess the grade, be my guest.
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Koolcoin
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
–John Adams, 1826
I find CircCams to be a bit unusual on copper and bronze. This was the nicest of the pieces I got from part of a hoard which Andy Lustig (MrEureka) was selling a while ago, which was in turn part of a truly gigantic hoard. Interestingly, all the pieces Andy had were 1811 or 1826, both of which are better dates. Whoever hoarded them must have been paying attention to that.
Who has some other CircCam copper? It's perhaps not as appealing a look on copper, since the high points will be unnaturally red looking, but I find it handsome enough on the example above.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
SilverEagle92's coins above are great CircCams, particularly that 1818 quarter, which is a textbook example of the CircCam look.
The light CircCam contrast cinched it for me. I didn't know I was in the market for a Seated dollar; it just kind of happened that way. I bought this for resale. I think I might start trying to specialize a little in CircCam material. It fits, because I cannot always afford to play in the MS grade ranges, and have always been more comfortable in the circulated grades anyway, where the grade splits are not so tiny and are much easier to determine. I happen to strongly agree with the PCGS grade on this piece. What say ye?
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>A pending newp from a respected Dansco 7070 collector. I will be buying the coin raw as it was cracked out, but the insert is included in the sale.
The light CircCam contrast cinched it for me. I didn't know I was in the market for a Seated dollar; it just kind of happened that way. I bought this for resale. I think I might start trying to specialize a little in CircCam material. It fits, because I cannot always afford to play in the MS grade ranges, and have always been more comfortable in the circulated grades anyway, where the grade splits are not so tiny and are much easier to determine. I happen to strongly agree with the PCGS grade on this piece. What say ye?
>>
You should absolutely do this, and when you do I'll be one of your best customers. I'm 100% on the CircCam™ bandwagon, right now I'm shifting focus from the error sets (not for lack of interest but because there aren't many around to fit my sets) to a VF-ish CircCam™ 7070 set and a date set of G/VG CircCam™ Barber quarters (minus the three big keys for now). Here are a couple of coins from the 7070, I also have an awesome seated dime to imasge and crack from it's off-brand plastic.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
peacockcoins
The look was enough to turn my head; the CC mintmark was just icing on the cake.
This is just a temporary picture cropped from the seller's group shots.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I think this counts and I like the look as well, although I'm going to wear out this picture posting it
Image didn't work
Here's mine. It was the first CBH I ever bought. The way the CBHs wear they make really nice CircCams, especially the obverse. That's what made me buy this one.
Don
<< <i>Here is my favorite - bought it off the BST board last year!
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Koolcoin >>
Ha, that's cool! That 1830 was my 2nd favorite in my bust half collection, way back when I collected the big coins. This is the second coin I've come across on the boards today that I used to own. I'm glad to see someone is still enjoying it and it's still in the forum "family". Also, kinda cool to see my photo still being used hehe.
<< <i>
I don't understand why this coin is well liked it's DIRTY. Ziggy use some bam on that bad boy.
You're gonna get bammed! Wash yer mouth out with soap, fella!
<< <i>
<< <i>Here is my favorite - bought it off the BST board last year!
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Koolcoin >>
Ha, that's cool! That 1830 was my 2nd favorite in my bust half collection, way back when I collected the big coins. This is the second coin I've come across on the boards today that I used to own. I'm glad to see someone is still enjoying it and it's still in the forum "family". Also, kinda cool to see my photo still being used hehe.
>>
Beautiful bust half, that one has both "two_tone" and "CircCam" going on. I love "two_toned" coins as much as the CircCams.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448