I Saw A Most Troubling Gold Coin Doctoring Trick

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A few months ago, I am at a local coin shop and I see the dealer working on some Unc Saints
that had copper spots on them. He was waving a propane torch over them for a few seconds.
The spots were gone and I could not detect any signs of tampering thereafter. But I thought
to myself, PCGS will not grade them. They came back from PCGS a few week ago as MS 63's.
Anybody else heard of this trick? Is it something that TPGs watch for? Can they spot it?
What do you all think? Is it OK to do this, akin to dipping?

Longacre

How would this get rid of a copper spot? I thought those were more than just surface irregularities.

Barndog

what Longacre said...anyone know the science behind this?

Hyperion

that's bizzare, know gold is gold, but it's not pure gold, I would figure ANYTHING that would disturb the surface would really disturb the surface of the coin.

any possibility that he didn't just lie to you about the PCGS slabbed coins ? he might have wrecked the other ones trying to doctor them

80sJunkie

Cladiator

Leiana

I would hazard a guess that the 'alteration' would not be permanent.

My chemistry is certainly not up to snuff with some here, but heat is usually used to induce a chemical reaction of some sort. Gold is fairly inert, so my guess would be that the copper was made to react with an unknown surface reagent by the added heat.

Just my nominally educated guess.

-Amanda

coinguy1

I have heard of a number of methods to remove copper spots from gold coins. In many cases, at least, the spots re-appear at a later date, however.

ziggy29

Might ammonia be involved?

Ammonia can reduce copper oxides back to copper in the presence of sufficient heat, producing nitrogen gas and water in the reduction:

2NH3 + 3CuO -> 3Cu + N2 + 3H2O

dorkkarl

agree w/ coinguy1, copper spots are ez to remove, & it doesn't surprise me that a quick dash of heat might burn 'em off, though i think there are safer ways to do it. personally, copper spots on gold don't bother me in the slightest, but there are those nutjobs that just HAVE to have "perfect" looking coins

K S

BillJones

A lot of the gold coins that going to NCS to have copper spots removed are getting them right back in a year or two. Ditto for removeal of copper spots on Buffalo nickels. And I've seen what's happened to some the coins that were "conserved" from he SS Central America.

It's too bad that the people who nailed on this don't scream bloody murder. Getting scammed by on a worked on coin is no fun.

DrPerry

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+1

MrEureka

Any other useful tips for the wannabe doctors?

dragon

I've witnessed some far better tricks on gold then the dumbass torch method. I've seen very pretty lightish/darkish gold tones and pinkish hues put on Saints that holdered at PCGS.

ziggy29

<< <i>Any other useful tips for the wannabe doctors? >>

You mean the ones so many professionals and big names claim to know but refuse to identify?

Tarmac

I am at a local coin shop and I see the dealer working on some Unc Saints,.....He was waving a propane torch over them for a few seconds.
The spots were gone and I could not detect any signs of tampering thereafter.

Lance Burton was moonlighting?

ScarsdaleCoin

I think that you need to put a warning label on this thread....

Coin spot removal by blow torch is done by highly trained professionals, please do not attempt this at home

or something to this effect!