I personally know of approx 200 that were graded by NGC in early 2006 because of their much faster turn around time and looser grading standards. All 200+ have since been crossed over. I also personally know that the NGC pop report is wrong. They were encapsulating many in the 3 coin slabs, and some bozo was marking both coins as high leaf in the pops. I followed the pops closely during the early stages and analyzed the pop during my submission. I notified NGC when I figured it out, they said they couldn't go back and make the corrections. I believe there was at a minimum of a couple hundred lows that were incorrectly catagorized as highs.
Summary. There are far fewer coins graded than the total combined pops because of crossovers. The NGC pop on high leafs are exaggerated.
<< <i>I know the dealer who owns one of the PCGS MS67's, (and a truckload of the MS66's). He's sitting on that puppy waiting for it to become his retirement plan.
Russ, NCNE >>
I heard it was Mr Weinstein? I Mean Mr Weinberg is this true.
<< <i>So, what are the chances that collectors will "GET" serious about them? It seems pretty much like they are steadily dwindling in popularity.
I have one set that I'd love to see get valuable someday but I'm beginning to be skeptical. >>
I think it will happen but time will tell.
It's entirely possible it could be sooner than later. In just several weeks the last of the states quartes will be out and millions will be scrambling to get any they haven't already found. A lot of people will learn of the varieties when they go to a coin shop or order the coins they need over the net or through the mail. Christmas is com- ing and this is the time of year dealers start stocking up.
I may have a 'truck load' of errors put aside, but I guarantee you that none of them are die varieties (well, maybe two or three pcs., but -0- Wisconsin's)
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>I may have a 'truck load' of errors put aside, but I guarantee you that none of them are die varieties (well, maybe two or three pcs., but -0- Wisconsin's) >>
Fred you have everything else. You are still the king Fred.
<< <i>For those who would like to predict the future value of the ASE varieties, one might consider the example of these coins as a good predictor....Mike >>
They are not listening.....................
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I know the dealer who owns one of the PCGS MS67's, (and a truckload of the MS66's). He's sitting on that puppy waiting for it to become his retirement plan.
I have some put aside and will not sell at these levels, but this is only for diversification purposes. I just believe that there is a floor and that this coin could only go so low, so I like the risk reward factor here. 5 years from now I'm confident that this coin can easily double from here, but again the debate will always exist as to whether or not this was a die error or an intentional act. The 50% that believe it was a die error will never want one because a die error is fairly common and not fascinating to most collectors, but the other 50% who believe this was an intentional act will likely always be a fan of these. My point is if there was conclusive evidence that this was an intentional act then probably every collector would want one and the demand would be twice of what it is today and prices would probably be four or five fold from what they are today.
Again, I love to preach the presidential errors and this is where the big money will be in the future in my opinion. Just watch ebay and you will always see 50 or 60 Washington plain edges listed at one time, but yet prices continue to hold, so this shows that there is a large and viable market out there for these coins since we are now 18 months into their discovery and whatever quantitiy shows up on ebay there always seems to be enough demand to support the supply, otherwise prices would fall.
Also if you aren't into the presidential errors and are looking to get into the series, closely follow the adams double edges on ebay and usually you will only see 5 to 10 for sale which shows that not many colletors are willing to part with these which is obviously a bullish sign. Now with the Washington plain edges the consensus seems to be that there are at least 150,000 plus out there and with the Adams double edges right around 40,000. Now it always seems to be that there are about 50 to 60 Washington smooth edges on ebay being offered so about 1 in 2500 to 3000 of the estimated mintage is being offered at any given time, whereas for the adams double edges only about 1 in 4000 to 8000 is being offered at any given time. I love the ADams double edges because the double edges will probably be the last we see of the whole presidential series and the smooth edges will likely continue to surface just because logically it would seem much easier for a coin to miss the stamping process as opposed to going through it twice. In other words, smooth edges are available for Washington, Adams, and Jefferson in quanities and supposedly a few here and there for the other presidents, but how many presidents can you get a double edge for besides ADams? None to my knowledge. Furthermore, what other error in Mint history has its own unique pattern for each coin besides the adams double edge? None to my knowledge. Couple this with the fact that the Mint is going to begin as massive program to get awareness out about these presidential dollars and this will only mean tons of new collectors coming into the market. Granted, most won't be the serious breed wanting every presidential errors, but if only a small percentage come onto the bandwagon then this will still mean thousand of new collectors wanting a double edge or smooth edge.
I've said this before and if wasn't for each one costing $450 or more for a slabbed 65 I would be buyiing these once a week, but the real money will be in the Adams plain edges in my opinion. There is a low enough mintage of these for some promoter to come in and single handly move prices which is what I believe will happen in the near future.
Thanks for keeping up with this data. I would think that with the mystery resolved and the coins listed in the Red book and elsewhere, there would be more enthusiasm. I mean how many other varieties have a neat story like these! A whodunit if there ever was one!
I think most of the recent (2008) submissions are mostly resubmissions.
12/3/05 totals: high leaf=3638 low leaf=4149
9/17/06 PCGS+NGC Totals high leaf =5405 low leaf =7289
3/14/07 TOTALS: ANACS+PCGS+NGC high leaf=6484 low leaf=8832
3/17/08 TOTALS: ANACS+PCGS+NGC high leaf=7068 low leaf=9693
7/5/08 TOTALS: ANACS+PCGS+NGC high leaf=7144 low leaf=9813
Comments
I personally know of approx 200 that were graded by NGC in early 2006 because of their much faster turn around time and looser grading standards. All 200+ have since been crossed over. I also personally know that the NGC pop report is wrong. They were encapsulating many in the 3 coin slabs, and some bozo was marking both coins as high leaf in the pops. I followed the pops closely during the early stages and analyzed the pop during my submission. I notified NGC when I figured it out, they said they couldn't go back and make the corrections. I believe there was at a minimum of a couple hundred lows that were incorrectly catagorized as highs.
Summary. There are far fewer coins graded than the total combined pops because of crossovers. The NGC pop on high leafs are exaggerated.
It seems pretty much like they are steadily dwindling in popularity.
I have one set that I'd love to see get valuable someday but I'm beginning to be skeptical.
<< <i>The coin is way overpriced >>
You damn straight. It's worth 18 cents euro.
Joey thanks for the graphs. Very Nice indeed.
<< <i>I know the dealer who owns one of the PCGS MS67's, (and a truckload of the MS66's). He's sitting on that puppy waiting for it to become his retirement plan.
Russ, NCNE >>
I heard it was Mr Weinstein? I Mean Mr Weinberg is this true.
<< <i>So, what are the chances that collectors will "GET" serious about them?
It seems pretty much like they are steadily dwindling in popularity.
I have one set that I'd love to see get valuable someday but I'm beginning to be skeptical. >>
I think it will happen but time will tell.
It's entirely possible it could be sooner than later. In just several
weeks the last of the states quartes will be out and millions will be
scrambling to get any they haven't already found. A lot of people
will learn of the varieties when they go to a coin shop or order the
coins they need over the net or through the mail. Christmas is com-
ing and this is the time of year dealers start stocking up.
but I guarantee you that none of them are
die varieties (well, maybe two or three pcs.,
but -0- Wisconsin's)
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>I may have a 'truck load' of errors put aside,
but I guarantee you that none of them are
die varieties (well, maybe two or three pcs.,
but -0- Wisconsin's) >>
Fred you have everything else. You are still the king Fred.
<< <i>For those who would like to predict the future value of the ASE varieties, one might consider the example of these coins as a good predictor....Mike >>
They are not listening.....................
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I know the dealer who owns one of the PCGS MS67's, (and a truckload of the MS66's). He's sitting on that puppy waiting for it to become his retirement plan.
Russ, NCNE >>
Good luck to him
Again, I love to preach the presidential errors and this is where the big money will be in the future in my opinion. Just watch ebay and you will always see 50 or 60 Washington plain edges listed at one time, but yet prices continue to hold, so this shows that there is a large and viable market out there for these coins since we are now 18 months into their discovery and whatever quantitiy shows up on ebay there always seems to be enough demand to support the supply, otherwise prices would fall.
Also if you aren't into the presidential errors and are looking to get into the series, closely follow the adams double edges on ebay and usually you will only see 5 to 10 for sale which shows that not many colletors are willing to part with these which is obviously a bullish sign. Now with the Washington plain edges the consensus seems to be that there are at least 150,000 plus out there and with the Adams double edges right around 40,000. Now it always seems to be that there are about 50 to 60 Washington smooth edges on ebay being offered so about 1 in 2500 to 3000 of the estimated mintage is being offered at any given time, whereas for the adams double edges only about 1 in 4000 to 8000 is being offered at any given time. I love the ADams double edges because the double edges will probably be the last we see of the whole presidential series and the smooth edges will likely continue to surface just because logically it would seem much easier for a coin to miss the stamping process as opposed to going through it twice. In other words, smooth edges are available for Washington, Adams, and Jefferson in quanities and supposedly a few here and there for the other presidents, but how many presidents can you get a double edge for besides ADams? None to my knowledge. Furthermore, what other error in Mint history has its own unique pattern for each coin besides the adams double edge? None to my knowledge. Couple this with the fact that the Mint is going to begin as massive program to get awareness out about these presidential dollars and this will only mean tons of new collectors coming into the market. Granted, most won't be the serious breed wanting every presidential errors, but if only a small percentage come onto the bandwagon then this will still mean thousand of new collectors wanting a double edge or smooth edge.
I've said this before and if wasn't for each one costing $450 or more for a slabbed 65 I would be buyiing these once a week, but the real money will be in the Adams plain edges in my opinion. There is a low enough mintage of these for some promoter to come in and single handly move prices which is what I believe will happen in the near future.
I think most of the recent (2008) submissions are mostly resubmissions.
12/3/05
totals:
high leaf=3638
low leaf=4149
9/17/06
PCGS+NGC
Totals
high leaf =5405
low leaf =7289
3/14/07
TOTALS:
ANACS+PCGS+NGC
high leaf=6484
low leaf=8832
3/17/08
TOTALS:
ANACS+PCGS+NGC
high leaf=7068
low leaf=9693
7/5/08
TOTALS:
ANACS+PCGS+NGC
high leaf=7144
low leaf=9813