<< <i>Is a coin, with 100+ graded a single arbitrary "point" below it, not counting those at the same grade or a single arbitrary point below it at other grading companies, not even counting the extremely vast majority which have never been slabbed or even had owners which even thought about it, in any meaningful sense a condition rarity?
I think you know my answer already. >>
With the price difference between conditional rarities in other series, which can be six figures in some cases for a single grade less, I would say not at all. >>
Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
I think the coin suffered from lack of an adequate venue. Teletrade IMO, is not the best place to showcase one-of-a-kind rarities. That is kind of like putting it on eBay and kinda cheapens the deal. Take the 100 Kilo Candaian gold bullion coin that was offered recently on Teletade and failed to sell at melt! At the time gold was at $670 and if it went to $700 the buyer would have been even at melt value. As of today the coin is worth $125,000 more than the buyer would have paid had it sold (including the 10% vig).
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
FLBuffhunter - IMHO, Teletrade is, hands down, the finest venue for selling a coin like that. Teletrade routinely gets top dollar for finest known moderns - more than ANY (repeat any) other auction venue I am aware of.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>FLBuffhunter - IMHO, Teletrade is, hands down, the finest venue for selling a coin like that. Teletrade routinely gets top dollar for finest known moderns - more than ANY (repeat any) other auction venue I am aware of.
Wondercoin >>
Do you think the coin would bring more if it was offered again?
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
Also in the Presidential dollar series which I believe is a better comparison. There are thousands of George Washington's graded one point lower and over 10 top poulation graded examples yet they sell for thousands. The 2003 Lincoln cent has a few hunderd graded one point less and only one MS70 and sells for $13,000
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
There are many schools of thought on valuing a coin like the 03 cent. One school points out that the undergrade coin is worth less than $100 - so 100x that price is $10,000 and a silly price to pay for just "1 point" (especially since there are many premium quality MS69RD pieces). Another school points out it is the only business strike MS70RD ever at PCGS so it should be worth a decent price ($15,000?, $20,000? - whatever - regardless of the fact that an MS69RD is only worth about $90). If you are squarely in one school or the other, I find you will virtually never convince the other school member to switch to your opinion (i.e. the coin is either "modern crap" or a "modern classic").
The coin has a base price of $14,500 hammer from a public auction and now a year of remaining pop 1 for the series - so, yes, I do believe the coin can possibly command a higher level now than a year ago. But, assuming the coin is now a $20,000 coin - you would now be around 200x the undergrade value and that is very dangerous territory should PCGS slab another coin or two (which is no big deal if you are Austin Powers and "love to live dangerously")!.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
$19,999.90 worth of plastic, $0.10 worth of coin. (to me anyway)
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>There are many schools of thought on valuing a coin like the 03 cent. One school points out that the undergrade coin is worth less than $100 - so 100x that price is $10,000 and a silly price to pay for just "1 point" (especially since there are many premium quality MS69RD pieces). Another school points out it is the only business strike MS70RD ever at PCGS so it should be worth a decent price ($15,000?, $20,000? - whatever - regardless of the fact that an MS69RD is only worth about $90). If you are squarely in one school or the other, I find you will virtually never convince the other school member to switch to your opinion (i.e. the coin is either "modern crap" or a "modern classic").
The coin has a base price of $14,500 hammer from a public auction and now a year of remaining pop 1 for the series - so, yes, I do believe the coin can possibly command a higher level now than a year ago. But, assuming the coin is now a $20,000 coin - you would now be around 200x the undergrade value and that is very dangerous territory should PCGS slab another coin or two (which is no big deal if you are Austin Powers and "love to live dangerously")!.
Wondercoin >>
So I guess that means the MS67 Washington's are really over valued. In comparison with that analogy, the Lincoln cent offers a better rarity factor and as such is a better value at that price.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
I was reffering to the PCGS George Washington Presidential coins with 13 MS67 P's, 7 MS67 D's and 7,060 graded MS66 (P & D) not counting the Missing Edge Lettering variety.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity.
<< <i>I am sure many of the MS69's are just as nice. The PCGS graders had given 3 of the 2003's a MS70 grade, but only one got by the finalizer. While it may be the holy grail to some, I can think of hundreds of other Lincoln's I would much rather own. >>
You are wrong, the others ms69's are not as nice, I own several ms69's and you can tell the difference with a 5x. "...3 coins were given ms70" and you think this other "2 coins had not been submitted over and over during the last year? Are they ms70??? Give me a break! Keith
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
Pocket change???? This is pocket change
This is not
Keith >>
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change.
- you would now be around 200x the undergrade value and that is very dangerous territory should PCGS slab another coin or two (which is no big deal if you are Austin Powers and "love to live dangerously")!.
<< <i>What would it go down to if a second was graded MS70?
I suppose the question is: Is it bad to have the ONLY MS70, especially being only 4 years ago?
Now, when you buy it, do you automatically assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
I will never expect this to be the only ms70, we may have few more in the next several years, do this will decrease the price of this coin? I really think it will not. Keith
<< <i>What would it go down to if a second was graded MS70?
I suppose the question is: Is it bad to have the ONLY MS70, especially being only 4 years ago?
Now, when you buy it, do you automatically assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
There's still an awful lot of room for demand to expand.
I'd predict that there will be at least a few more MS-70 cents made in the future. Perhaps none will be 2003-P's but there are several dates that might appear this nice. Demand could easily outpace supply even if there are dozens more.
<< <i>assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
How can it possibly matter what the composition of the coin is except to those who collect them? Back before 1965 there were millions of coins set aside every year. Are you suggesting that all of these have been checked but there are huge numbers of 2003 cents that haven't?
you suggesting that all of these have been checked but there are huge numbers of
I was thinking that since 1983 when the composition changed, the Minting process for the Penny did as well.
While we still have the SAME design, we do NOT have the SAME type of planchet or the same process that created the SAME coin with a different metal make-up from the earliar period.
<< <i>you suggesting that all of these have been checked but there are huge numbers of
I was thinking that since 1983 when the composition changed, the Minting process for the Penny did as well.
While we still have the SAME design, we do NOT have the SAME type of planchet or the same process that created the SAME coin with a different metal make-up from the earliar period. >>
I see.
The one cent coin does come a lot nicer now days. You can find gems in circulation pretty regularly. Still Anything over MS-67 is not going to be common.
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
Pocket change???? This is pocket change
This is not
Keith >>
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections. Keith
I think the fields alone, out wiegh ANY concern about a tiny-weenie rim nick! >>
on a lesser coin, yes.......on a $13,000 penny that was pulled from a mint set/roll/pocket/etc. and subsequently had PCGS foaming at the mouth that a business strike 70 had finally(!) been certified? no thanks.
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections. Keith >>
Keith - being that this was your coin, i can certainly take your word for the fact that those are not imperfections. I wasn't trying to find fault, but in looking at the coin in like a clock,the eye is sorta drawn to those areas. glad to hear they aren't nicks
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections. Keith >>
Keith - being that this was your coin, i can certainly take your word for the fact that those are not imperfections. I wasn't trying to find fault, but in looking at the coin in like a clock,the eye is sorta drawn to those areas. glad to hear they aren't nicks[/
No problem. By the way I still have this coin and the uggly 1969-s DDO as well Keith
Off the top of your head, who had the FIRST PCGS MS70 2006 W Unc ASE? I’ll bet someone knows!
But who had/has the 2,3,4 and 5th Coin?
After giving it some thought, I totally agree with Keith; it is hard to discount the very first! >>
This isn't the same thing as an eagle or a made-for-collector coin. This is a business strike coin that actually circulates. The vast majority of these actually do change hands a few times before hitting the landfill. The attrition on these is staggering and while to- day there may not be a huge spread in their conditions the day is rapidly approaching. Fully 20% of these are already gone forever. Many are zinc oxide or even more totally destroyed. Another 60% are degraded. Most of the rest are at least bruised and bat- tered if not rubbed. As time goes on the ONLY survivors will be those set aside and con- ditions will range widely from ugly XF's to MS-70. The eagles were made in a more narrow range and are degrading and being destroyed at a much lower rate.
Obviously a silver eagle collector will be interested in the first, or second, or maybe even the 50th MS-70, but a circulating coin is a different animal just because the range in which they are made and their intended purpose is different.
Another thing that's different is the size of the potential demand. There are probably more eagle collectors than Zinc Lincoln collectors but imagine if this number were to grow to approach the number of collectors for the older Lincolns. This might not happen, of course, but who could imagine ten years ago that there'd ever be so many 2003 cents graded in '07? The idea of grading moderns was ludicrous not many years ago. Now almost half the coins being graded are moderns and this is the ONLY MS-70 business strike coin.
I'm not saying that the coin is worth ten thousand dollars or ten thousand cents, just that if this were an equivalent old coin it would go for far more than $10,000. There is an anni- versary coming up for the Lincoln cent in less than two years. There are millions of cent collections that end at 1959 or 1964. Isn't it possible that some of these might be brought up to date? People believe all these cents are easy to find in nice gem condition so they've ignored them. They might be surprised and we might all be surprised at demand at the high end. Of course surprises can work both ways and collectors might want nice circulated ex- amples.
Obviously a silver eagle collector will be interested in the first, or second, or maybe even the 50th MS-70, but a circulating coin is a different animal just because the range in which they are made and their intended purpose is different.
I hope some rich guy buys it, cracks it out and spends it. Then videos the whole thing and puts it on UTube. If I had the money to blow, I would do just that!
Coinboy, Keith was not the maker/finder of the coin, I was. The coin came from a 2003 Uncirculated Mint Set. I sent the coin in with 99 other 2003 pennies. I only had MS69 or higher graded, ten were MS69RD and one was MS70RD.
Karl
Warrior Redskin Father Friend We'll miss you Sean!
<< <i>Coinboy, Keith was not the maker/finder of the coin, I was. The coin came from a 2003 Uncirculated Mint Set. I sent the coin in with 99 other 2003 pennies. I only had MS69 or higher graded, ten were MS69RD and one was MS70RD.
Karl >>
Interesting, which probably means since the Mint sets are now satin finish since 2005, another later date business strike MS70 won't be found. Given the 2003 has had the largest submission numbers of any Lincoln Memorial reverse cent along with the 2000, I would say it's position as a one-of-a-kind condition rarity is rather secure.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
Keith was not the maker/finder of the coin, I was. The coin came from a 2003 Uncirculated Mint Set. I sent the coin in with 99 other 2003 pennies. I only had MS69 or higher graded, ten were MS69RD and one was MS70RD
Wow!
Did you think you had one (MS70), or were you of the mind-set of just looking for 69's?
I doubt there is a sole alive that could pick it out of a group with all currently graded MS69s unless they could view the labels. Given it is a mint set coin, it is no different than any of the other MS70s PCGS has graded out of the later year sets.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>I doubt there is a sole alive that could pick it out of a group with all currently graded MS69s unless they could view the labels. Given it is a mint set coin, it is no different than any of the other MS70s PCGS has graded out of the later year sets. >>
WRONG! As a matter of fact i have several ms69 and you can see the difference without looking at the label. None of the ms69 have the details of this coin nor they are mark free as this one Keith
I have a couple 2002 PCGS-MS69RD Lincoln cents that are "PCGS perfect" and worthy of the MS70RD grade (in fact, I predicted on the boards back in 2002 that PCGS would grade an MS70RD cent based upon these coins - it just did not happen that year). I would be happy to bring them to Long Beach, put them side by side with the 2003 MS70 cent (which, again, I believe is worthy of the 70 grade as well) and have everyone determine if one of my coins is equally a 70. If one gets changed there to MS70RD (which it deserves to be) -I would agree to sell the coin at auction with every cent of the proceeds going to a worthy charity.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I have a couple 2002 PCGS-MS69RD Lincoln cents that are "PCGS perfect" and worthy of the MS70RD grade (in fact, I predicted on the boards back in 2002 that PCGS would grade an MS70RD cent based upon these coins - it just did not happen that year). I would be happy to bring them to Long Beach, put them side by side with the 2003 MS70 cent (which, again, I believe is worthy of the 70 grade as well) and have everyone determine if one of my coins is equally a 70. If one gets changed there to MS70RD (which it deserves to be) -I would agree to sell the coin at auction with every cent of the proceeds going to a worthy charity.
Wondercoin >>
Sounds fair game, however I will not be in Long beach.I am planning to go to FUN JAN 2008. Dinner on me for the first 5 boards member I meet at Florida (including family members). Where? You guys choose the restaurant Keith
Keith - I know you would enjoy the event. You have repeatedy stated that you expect another MS70RD cent to be graded down the road. And, you could also buy the 2002 MS70RD out of the charity auction and double your MS70RD cent holdings!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Is a coin, with 100+ graded a single arbitrary "point" below it, not counting those at the same grade or a single arbitrary point below it at other grading companies, not even counting the extremely vast majority which have never been slabbed or even had owners which even thought about it, in any meaningful sense a condition rarity?
I think you know my answer already. >>
With the price difference between conditional rarities in other series, which can be six figures in some cases for a single grade less, I would say not at all. >>
Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures?
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain.
Wondercoin
<< <i>FLBuffhunter - IMHO, Teletrade is, hands down, the finest venue for selling a coin like that. Teletrade routinely gets top dollar for finest known moderns - more than ANY (repeat any) other auction venue I am aware of.
Wondercoin >>
Do you think the coin would bring more if it was offered again?
strike MS70RD ever at PCGS so it should be worth a decent price ($15,000?, $20,000? - whatever - regardless of the fact that an MS69RD is only worth about $90). If you are squarely in one school or the other, I find you will virtually never convince the other school member to switch to your opinion (i.e. the coin is either "modern crap" or a "modern classic").
The coin has a base price of $14,500 hammer from a public auction and now a year of remaining pop 1 for the series - so, yes, I do believe the coin can possibly command a higher level now than a year ago. But, assuming the coin is now a $20,000 coin - you would now be around 200x the undergrade value and that is very dangerous territory should PCGS slab another coin or two (which is no big deal if you are Austin Powers and "love to live dangerously")!.
Wondercoin
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>The 2003 Lincoln cent has a few hunderd graded one point less and only one MS70 and sells for $13,000 >>
Yeah, and I wouldn't give $5 for the ones graded MS69, not worth submitting,might be why the numbers are so much lower...
<< <i>
<< <i>The 2003 Lincoln cent has a few hunderd graded one point less and only one MS70 and sells for $13,000 >>
Yeah, and I wouldn't give $5 for the ones graded MS69, not worth submitting,might be why the numbers are so much lower... >>
Current PCGS population shows 1,643 2003 lincoln cents graded which is the second highest non-error Lincoln Memorial reverse cent behind the 2000.
<< <i>There are many schools of thought on valuing a coin like the 03 cent. One school points out that the undergrade coin is worth less than $100 - so 100x that price is $10,000 and a silly price to pay for just "1 point" (especially since there are many premium quality MS69RD pieces). Another school points out it is the only business
strike MS70RD ever at PCGS so it should be worth a decent price ($15,000?, $20,000? - whatever - regardless of the fact that an MS69RD is only worth about $90). If you are squarely in one school or the other, I find you will virtually never convince the other school member to switch to your opinion (i.e. the coin is either "modern crap" or a "modern classic").
The coin has a base price of $14,500 hammer from a public auction and now a year of remaining pop 1 for the series - so, yes, I do believe the coin can possibly command a higher level now than a year ago. But, assuming the coin is now a $20,000 coin - you would now be around 200x the undergrade value and that is very dangerous territory should PCGS slab another coin or two (which is no big deal if you are Austin Powers and "love to live dangerously")!.
Wondercoin >>
So I guess that means the MS67 Washington's are really over valued. In comparison with that analogy, the Lincoln cent offers a better rarity factor and as such is a better value at that price.
Wondercoin
<< <i>which "MS67 Washingtons"?
Wondercoin >>
I was reffering to the PCGS George Washington Presidential coins with 13 MS67 P's, 7 MS67 D's and 7,060 graded MS66 (P & D) not counting the Missing Edge Lettering variety.
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity.
<< <i>I am sure many of the MS69's are just as nice. The PCGS graders had given 3 of the 2003's a MS70 grade, but only one got by the finalizer. While it may be the holy grail to some, I can think of hundreds of other Lincoln's I would much rather own. >>
You are wrong, the others ms69's are not as nice, I own several ms69's and you can tell the difference with a 5x.
"...3 coins were given ms70" and you think this other "2 coins had not been submitted over and over during the last year? Are they ms70??? Give me a break!
Keith
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
Pocket change????
This is pocket change
This is not
Keith
I suppose the question is: Is it bad to have the ONLY MS70, especially being only 4 years ago?
Now, when you buy it, do you automatically assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA
<< <i>a "sucker". between 5-10,000.00 I'd guess. >>
These comments frustrate me only because you never see them made about a 68 morgan or walker...same thing, condition rarity. --jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
Pocket change????
This is pocket change
This is not
Keith
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change.
I think Mitch just answered my question!
<< <i>What would it go down to if a second was graded MS70?
I suppose the question is: Is it bad to have the ONLY MS70, especially being only 4 years ago?
Now, when you buy it, do you automatically assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
I will never expect this to be the only ms70, we may have few more in the next several years, do this will decrease the price of this coin? I really think it will not.
Keith
<< <i>What would it go down to if a second was graded MS70?
I suppose the question is: Is it bad to have the ONLY MS70, especially being only 4 years ago?
Now, when you buy it, do you automatically assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
There's still an awful lot of room for demand to expand.
I'd predict that there will be at least a few more MS-70 cents made in the future. Perhaps
none will be 2003-P's but there are several dates that might appear this nice. Demand could
easily outpace supply even if there are dozens more.
<< <i>assume that on any given day your purchase could be cut by 10% - 80% by the addition of another coin?
I mean after all if it were made when a penny was truly copper, you could consider yourself safe......
TIA >>
How can it possibly matter what the composition of the coin is except to those who
collect them? Back before 1965 there were millions of coins set aside every year. Are
you suggesting that all of these have been checked but there are huge numbers of
2003 cents that haven't?
It is JUST a Business Strike!
I think the fields alone, out wiegh ANY concern about a tiny-weenie rim nick!
I was thinking that since 1983 when the composition changed, the Minting process for the Penny did as well.
While we still have the SAME design, we do NOT have the SAME type of planchet or the same process that created the SAME coin with a different metal make-up from the earliar period.
<< <i>you suggesting that all of these have been checked but there are huge numbers of
I was thinking that since 1983 when the composition changed, the Minting process for the Penny did as well.
While we still have the SAME design, we do NOT have the SAME type of planchet or the same process that created the SAME coin with a different metal make-up from the earliar period. >>
I see.
The one cent coin does come a lot nicer now days. You can find gems in circulation
pretty regularly. Still Anything over MS-67 is not going to be common.
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<< <i>Can you name the series, where there are over 250 graded one point lower, that has this price difference in six figures? >>
Classic coins are not my specialty but if a Picasso painting, the most prolific of all painters, is worth over $20M. I would say $13,000 for a one-of-a-kind Lincoln cent conditional rarity is a bargain. >>
bargain? I (and you included) have no idea how many more of these may be out there, but maybe people aren't interested in paying 30 bucks to slab nothing more than pocket change, or simply don't care enough to try and "create" a conditional rarity. >>
Pocket change????
This is pocket change
This is not
Keith
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections.
Keith
<< <i>My god, think about it!
It is JUST a Business Strike!
I think the fields alone, out wiegh ANY concern about a tiny-weenie rim nick! >>
on a lesser coin, yes.......on a $13,000 penny that was pulled from a mint set/roll/pocket/etc. and subsequently had PCGS foaming at the mouth that a business strike 70 had finally(!) been certified? no thanks.
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections.
Keith
Keith - being that this was your coin, i can certainly take your word for the fact that those are not imperfections. I wasn't trying to find fault, but in looking at the coin in like a clock,the eye is sorta drawn to those areas. glad to hear they aren't nicks
I think you aided me in fine-tuning my point:
Does the change in the Planchet composition from 1983 going forward (+ process used to strike) make a higher pop inevitable?
I mean, having the first ever graded in 2003, means you NEVER were #2 or #3, I suppose!.
Off the top of your head, who had the FIRST PCGS MS70 2006 W Unc ASE? I’ll bet someone knows!
But who had/has the 2,3,4 and 5th Coin?
After giving it some thought, I totally agree with Keith; it is hard to discount the very first!
<< <i>Q]
I would think that the rim nick(s) at 6 o'clock and a couple others, would disqualify that from being a 70. I commend you for that coin, and think it is beautiful, but there is nothing inherently rare about a 2003 penny. I was simply stating that this fact would disqualify the masses from searching for the perfect one among rolls and pocket change. >>
6 o'clock is not a nick. This coin was taken out the holder for this picture, there is several "plastic like" residual at the rim. I guess if you look at the coin using Electron Microscopy you can see some imperfections.
Keith
Keith - being that this was your coin, i can certainly take your word for the fact that those are not imperfections. I wasn't trying to find fault, but in looking at the coin in like a clock,the eye is sorta drawn to those areas. glad to hear they aren't nicks[/
No problem. By the way I still have this coin and the uggly 1969-s DDO as well
Keith
<< <i>I'd buy this coin for $20.00 shipping included. Just a 2003 cent, big deal. >>
Agree not a big deal, just a piece of copper(not even copper)
Keith
<< <i>
Off the top of your head, who had the FIRST PCGS MS70 2006 W Unc ASE? I’ll bet someone knows!
But who had/has the 2,3,4 and 5th Coin?
After giving it some thought, I totally agree with Keith; it is hard to discount the very first! >>
This isn't the same thing as an eagle or a made-for-collector coin. This is a business
strike coin that actually circulates. The vast majority of these actually do change hands
a few times before hitting the landfill. The attrition on these is staggering and while to-
day there may not be a huge spread in their conditions the day is rapidly approaching.
Fully 20% of these are already gone forever. Many are zinc oxide or even more totally
destroyed. Another 60% are degraded. Most of the rest are at least bruised and bat-
tered if not rubbed. As time goes on the ONLY survivors will be those set aside and con-
ditions will range widely from ugly XF's to MS-70. The eagles were made in a more narrow
range and are degrading and being destroyed at a much lower rate.
Obviously a silver eagle collector will be interested in the first, or second, or maybe even
the 50th MS-70, but a circulating coin is a different animal just because the range in which
they are made and their intended purpose is different.
Another thing that's different is the size of the potential demand. There are probably
more eagle collectors than Zinc Lincoln collectors but imagine if this number were to grow
to approach the number of collectors for the older Lincolns. This might not happen, of
course, but who could imagine ten years ago that there'd ever be so many 2003 cents
graded in '07? The idea of grading moderns was ludicrous not many years ago. Now
almost half the coins being graded are moderns and this is the ONLY MS-70 business
strike coin.
I'm not saying that the coin is worth ten thousand dollars or ten thousand cents, just that
if this were an equivalent old coin it would go for far more than $10,000. There is an anni-
versary coming up for the Lincoln cent in less than two years. There are millions of cent
collections that end at 1959 or 1964. Isn't it possible that some of these might be brought
up to date? People believe all these cents are easy to find in nice gem condition so they've
ignored them. They might be surprised and we might all be surprised at demand at the high
end. Of course surprises can work both ways and collectors might want nice circulated ex-
amples.
...I'm betting not.
the 50th MS-70, but a circulating coin is a different animal just because the range in which
they are made and their intended purpose is different.
Great Points in this post, above.
Thanks, ck!
How long were you looking?
Did you set out to find a penny to make this grade?
I know this might be big balls question to write about, but it has to have been one heck of an odyssey for you to have it end up in that PCGS Slab.
Keith was not the maker/finder of the coin, I was. The coin came from a 2003 Uncirculated Mint Set. I sent the coin in with 99 other 2003 pennies. I only had MS69 or higher graded, ten were MS69RD and one was MS70RD.
Karl
We'll miss you Sean!
<< <i>My guess is $13,000. >>
you hit it on the head
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
I rarely see Stewart post anymore
Velveeta makes great "Grilled" cheese Sand Witches
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Coinboy,
Keith was not the maker/finder of the coin, I was. The coin came from a 2003 Uncirculated Mint Set. I sent the coin in with 99 other 2003 pennies. I only had MS69 or higher graded, ten were MS69RD and one was MS70RD.
Karl >>
Interesting, which probably means since the Mint sets are now satin finish since 2005, another later date business strike MS70 won't be found. Given the 2003 has had the largest submission numbers of any Lincoln Memorial reverse cent along with the 2000, I would say it's position as a one-of-a-kind condition rarity is rather secure.
Wow!
Did you think you had one (MS70), or were you of the mind-set of just looking for 69's?
We'll miss you Sean!
<< <i>I doubt there is a sole alive that could pick it out of a group with all currently graded MS69s unless they could view the labels. Given it is a mint set coin, it is no different than any of the other MS70s PCGS has graded out of the later year sets. >>
WRONG!
As a matter of fact i have several ms69 and you can see the difference without looking at the label. None of the ms69 have the details of this coin nor they are mark free as this one
Keith
Wondercoin
<< <i>I have a couple 2002 PCGS-MS69RD Lincoln cents that are "PCGS perfect" and worthy of the MS70RD grade (in fact, I predicted on the boards back in 2002 that PCGS would grade an MS70RD cent based upon these coins - it just did not happen that year). I would be happy to bring them to Long Beach, put them side by side with the 2003 MS70 cent (which, again, I believe is worthy of the 70 grade as well) and have everyone determine if one of my coins is equally a 70. If one gets changed there to MS70RD (which it deserves to be) -I would agree to sell the coin at auction with every cent of the proceeds going to a worthy charity.
Wondercoin >>
Sounds fair game, however I will not be in Long beach.I am planning to go to FUN JAN 2008. Dinner on me for the first 5 boards member I meet at Florida (including family members). Where? You guys choose the restaurant
Keith
Wondercoin