"Big Yapi" can cry his way to the MVP all he wants
softparade
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Good for you Derek, let papi whine his way to the MVP. Becuase that is what he is doing. WE DON'T CARE about the MVP 
BALTIMORE - Derek Jeter didn't seem particularly moved by David Ortiz's argument that the Yankee shortstop's season isn't MVP-worthy because he's got so many talented hitters around him. A day after Ortiz said that Jeter should "come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be," Jeter responded succinctly yesterday.
"I don't have to do it in his lineup," he said. The captain shrugged when asked further about Ortiz's comments, saying, "I'm not thinking about the MVP right now. We're thinking about winning a division. We've still got something to play for."
He then added, "No one here's focused on individual awards."
At this point, that seems to be all that Ortiz and the Red Sox have left to focus on since they trail the Yanks by 10-1/2 games in the AL East. Ortiz began his remarks following Sunday's game in Boston by saying he didn't believe the Red Sox's collapse should affect his candidacy to win the MVP.
A year ago, he lost out to Alex Rodriguez; this year, his competition seems to be Jeter and White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye, with several Twins (Justin Morneau, Joe Mauer and even Johan Santana) also in the mix.
"I'll tell you one thing," Ortiz told The Boston Globe. "If I get 50 home runs (he's got 48) and 10 more RBI (which would give him 137), that's going to be a round number that no one else in the American League will have. But they'll vote for a position player, use that as an excuse. They're talking about Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ballclub, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games."
Ortiz then praised Jeter before making his comment about how Jeter might fare if he hit in Boston's lineup instead of the Yanks'.
Johnny Damon played with Ortiz in Boston from 2002-05 and was surprised to hear of his former teammate's comments.
"It doesn't sound like Ortiz," Damon said. "I can't believe he would say something like that."
Damon said he thought Ortiz was a "shoo-in" to beat out A-Rod last year but believes being a DH hurt him with the voters. He likes Jeter's chances this year.
"I'm going to choose my teammate, bottom line," Damon said. "I've seen the value of (Jeter) here."
BALTIMORE - Derek Jeter didn't seem particularly moved by David Ortiz's argument that the Yankee shortstop's season isn't MVP-worthy because he's got so many talented hitters around him. A day after Ortiz said that Jeter should "come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be," Jeter responded succinctly yesterday.
"I don't have to do it in his lineup," he said. The captain shrugged when asked further about Ortiz's comments, saying, "I'm not thinking about the MVP right now. We're thinking about winning a division. We've still got something to play for."
He then added, "No one here's focused on individual awards."
At this point, that seems to be all that Ortiz and the Red Sox have left to focus on since they trail the Yanks by 10-1/2 games in the AL East. Ortiz began his remarks following Sunday's game in Boston by saying he didn't believe the Red Sox's collapse should affect his candidacy to win the MVP.
A year ago, he lost out to Alex Rodriguez; this year, his competition seems to be Jeter and White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye, with several Twins (Justin Morneau, Joe Mauer and even Johan Santana) also in the mix.
"I'll tell you one thing," Ortiz told The Boston Globe. "If I get 50 home runs (he's got 48) and 10 more RBI (which would give him 137), that's going to be a round number that no one else in the American League will have. But they'll vote for a position player, use that as an excuse. They're talking about Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ballclub, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games."
Ortiz then praised Jeter before making his comment about how Jeter might fare if he hit in Boston's lineup instead of the Yanks'.
Johnny Damon played with Ortiz in Boston from 2002-05 and was surprised to hear of his former teammate's comments.
"It doesn't sound like Ortiz," Damon said. "I can't believe he would say something like that."
Damon said he thought Ortiz was a "shoo-in" to beat out A-Rod last year but believes being a DH hurt him with the voters. He likes Jeter's chances this year.
"I'm going to choose my teammate, bottom line," Damon said. "I've seen the value of (Jeter) here."
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That about sums it up best.
Steve
There is no doubt in my mind that Jeter is the MVP, and that a good Canadian boy named Justin Morneau is a distant second.
Steve
Let him have the MVP
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
That being said, I have lost every shred of respect I had for Ortiz.
I cant believe he went and said all that. It just didnt seem to be in his makeup to act or think like that. He most definately showed his bitter selfishness, as well as slapped his teammates in the face.
Give the big baby his MVP is he needs it that bad. I guarantee Jeter couldnt care less either way.
-- Yogi Berra
Heaven forbid you have an intelligent conversation that happens to criticize Saint Jeter (actually, he's not even criticizing Jeter here, he calls him "great") by mentioning that he's not exactly a traditional MVP candidate, and it's like he called out Mother Teresa.
Ortiz is right about why Jeter isn't an MVP.
The Yankee lineup is so incredibly loaded with talent that Jeter is just another big bat among many. I don't think you can truly say that if Jeter had an average season the Yankee season wouldn't be as successful. Nothing many people here haven't said before.
If Ortiz had an average season... or if Dye or Morneau or Mauer had average seasons... their teams would be in trouble.
As for the 'shot' at his teammates... who really cares? Who says team leaders have to wave pom poms all day? I like it when a leader like Ortiz is somewhat critical. The idea is to win games, not popularity contests.
Of course, Big Papi is frustrated. And, I'm sure a lot of what he said was taken out of context, and beat to death by Yankee beat writers. But to say things like "I've lost all respect for Ortiz" when he has always been a class act, seems a bit extreme to me.
One thing this does do, is it sets up Jeter even more to win the MVP. His comments in response will probably win a few more votes for him.
Gotta love Jete though,"I'm not thinking about the MVP, I'm thinking about winning the division." That's how you tell somebody to fcuk off with class!
<< <i>Ortiz is right about why Jeter isn't an MVP >>
Maybe, but he's showing a classless side to himself and he should keep his mouth shut.
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I guess Jeter is not a 100 Rbi guy even though as of this day he has 91. he should end up with 100+
I would prolly bet and win that Papi was taken out of contex.
Just does not sound like him. The media has a great way of distorting what people say and do. I give him the benefit of the doubt here.
This has nothing to do with Jeter being a saint. Even though he is an outstanding player, citizen and person.
Jermaine Dye will (and should) get more votes then Papi this yr. for the MVP and he and Jeter will be one and two (IMO) respectively. Who gets 1 and 2 is up for grabs. Joe Maur and a one or two other guys are in the mix as well.
Jeter is having an MVP type season.
Steve
Only speaking for my original comments here, but if you read I said FIRST that it has nothing to do with whether Jeter is MVP or not.
My one and only problem with Ortiz is the classless, selfish way he went about saying anything at all. I could care less if Jeter doesnt win, and honestly, I dont think he should. It came down to Ortiz putting his own teammates down and his concern with personal awards. Nothing more.
-- Yogi Berra
His rationale is just what I would expect to hear from one of the 'stupid' fans. His brain isn't any different than theirs. THe only difference is that he can flat out rake.
THe ability to play at that level does not mean a player has the ability to analyze/measure at that level.
Are people(ortiz) that stupid to realize that he would only have 48 RBI's if it weren't for teammates? Ortiz is dumb, not Dusty Baker dumb...Baker mentioned that he didn't like a lot of baserunners because they clog the bases!!!!!!!! What the FK!?! How dumb are these people? This is baseball 101(to most), yet they still don't understand.
Is Ortiz that stupid to not realize the value of defensive contributions?
If it weren't for baseball, he would be that big dumb ugly disgruntled guy working the fryers at McDonalds.
Jay
I didn't look at it in depthly, but Morneau may just be a hair above Mauer offesnively this year, but their defensive contributions put Mauer easily in the lead as the better player.
Way too much emphasis is put on lineup protection etc... 80's guy, your saying Mauer wouldn't be as good without Morneau? This has to be a practi cal joke. Where it is true his runs scored or RBI may not be as good(as those are heavily influenced by the lineup), the more true and accurate measurements(which should be the ones to be used as a measure of a player), wouldn't change much at all. Only in the extreme cases(a guy like Bonds in his prime) hitting behind a batter does lineup protection really amount to much.
People simply need to stop using total RBI as the key measurement tool. Unless you have all the oppurtunities accounted for and weighed to even things out, and have all the on base hitting numbers to show how much credit should go to the batter, then total RBI doesn't say much. Even when that is all used, you can't simply ignore the on base part of the equation(as is usually done). THis is common logic, yet people still don't understand, and STILL make the same incorrect assumptions.
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I still think the remarks were taken out of context, but even so, it doesn't seem like this was a good time to say anything like this. Also, I am not so sure he is the MVP anyway, considering the last month or so of the Sox season. I do think that you have to give him the benefit of the doubt on a lot of this, especially as he doesn't exactly have a reputation for these type of remarks.
<< <i>If it weren't for baseball, he would be that big dumb ugly disgruntled guy working the fryers at McDonalds. >>
Not exactly a brilliant statement, here. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as well.
Frankly, I am surprised he made those remarks -- the losing must be getting to him. Next you will see him strangle Timilin when he blows another save after a hard fought comeback.
and wasn't he the one whinning that the Yankees "supposed to let us win 'dat one" after being trounced 5 games to none?
........after hearing those two gems and laughing at this nitwit all season long...I would not expect anything too brilliant related to baseball ever to spew out his pie hole.
what a crybaby...what a role model..."look at me everybody" ...me,me,me,myself and I
It's likely "Big Floppy" has only seen Jeter play on the rare occasion when he wasn't pampering himself in the clubhouse while his "team" was on the field playing defense.
I'm not saying you're not right, I'm just surprised that you're so confident that Mauer is clearly better than Morneau. Per game, Morneau appears to be slightly better but he plays significantly more games so I would think he has a clear offensive advantage. Defensively, Mauer is good but I'm not seeing that he is so good that he not only makes up the offensive gap with Morneau but actually "easily" passes him. If Morneau were another Dave Kingman at first I could see it, but he's not. I'm just looking at basic stats - I've never seen either one of them play a game - so I'm interested in what else you're relying on in reaching your conclusion.
As for MVP, if history is any indication then a player who plays on a team that doesn't make the playoffs has to be significantly and obviously better than everyone else to win (the laughable selection of Andre Dawson in 1987 notwithstanding). Ortiz doesn't come close to reaching that level so it would be unusual for him to win this year even leaving aside that he's a DH and his unfortunate remarks. If I were a betting man I'd probably put my money on Jeter because (1) he's as good or very nearly as good as anyone else in the league this year and (2) it's probably the last best chance for writers who have always liked Jeter to give him the award. I'd vote Jeter first and Dye second, or maybe the other way around depending on what happens the next few weeks.
<< <i>skinpinch -
I'm not saying you're not right, I'm just surprised that you're so confident that Mauer is clearly better than Morneau. Per game, Morneau appears to be slightly better but he plays significantly more games so I would think he has a clear offensive advantage. Defensively, Mauer is good but I'm not seeing that he is so good that he not only makes up the offensive gap with Morneau but actually "easily" passes him. If Morneau were another Dave Kingman at first I could see it, but he's not. I'm just looking at basic stats - I've never seen either one of them play a game - so I'm interested in what else you're relying on in reaching your conclusion.
As for MVP, if history is any indication then a player who plays on a team that doesn't make the playoffs has to be significantly and obviously better than everyone else to win (the laughable selection of Andre Dawson in 1987 notwithstanding). Ortiz doesn't come close to reaching that level so it would be unusual for him to win this year even leaving aside that he's a DH and his unfortunate remarks. If I were a betting man I'd probably put my money on Jeter because (1) he's as good or very nearly as good as anyone else in the league this year and (2) it's probably the last best chance for writers who have always liked Jeter to give him the award. I'd vote Jeter first and Dye second, or maybe the other way around depending on what happens the next few weeks. >>
Dallas, where you been hiding, I havnt seen you here in quite some time !
As for Mauer, I tend to agree with you. Although he plays a tough position, he has been given alot of days off against the tough lefties, aiding his BA. Couple that with his relative lack of power and Morneau seems like a bigger hit to me also. Position aside, Mauer at this stage reminds me most of Olerud in his prime.
-- Yogi Berra
Jay
<< <i>Why are you guys so 'anti-pitcher' for MVP? >>
the pitchers "MVP" is the Cy Young award. That is just the way things have evolved and I would be shocked to see another pitcher win a MVP in my lifetime.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
maybe he should paint a big red C on his chest...then he can hit .230 next year too.
DAVID ORTIZ 2006 MVP
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Pri@k
I agree that total games played comes into play, and that days off by Mauer would hurt his value, compared to Morneau.
80'stoys, I mentioned the RBI statement as a general to the whole culture of viewing what is valuable etc...
If anyone is interested in looking at it in depthly between the two, great. I probably won't be able to.
He’s an arrogant little snot with attitude problem that makes my skin craw. He is the quintessential example of the poor winner who loves to rub in when others are down.
Go ahead a vote him to be the MVP. That will save George the trouble of having to buy this year’s MVP on the free agent market. George buys all the MVPs and Cy Young Award winners anyway, which why professional baseball sucks. When he gets a new stadium, paid for in part by the taxpayers, he'll be about to buy up all the runners up in the MVP balloting. Maybe then he'll win 150 games a season and show what a farce baseball is.
Edited to say, and NO, Papi does not deserve the MVP. The team fell apart in August, and he does not deserve the award.
<< <i>Derek Jeter - My least favorite baseball player, at least in the modern era. Some of the 1919 Black Sox players are the only ones who beat him out.
He’s an arrogant little snot with attitude problem that makes my skin craw. He is the quintessential example of the poor winner who loves to rub in when others are down.
Go ahead a vote him to be the MVP. That will save George the trouble of having to buy this year’s MVP on the free agent market. George buys all the MVPs and Cy Young Award winners anyway, which why professional baseball sucks. When he gets a new stadium, paid for in part by the taxpayers, he'll be about to buy up all the runners up in the MVP balloting. Maybe then he'll win 150 games a season and show what a farce baseball is.
Edited to say, and NO, Papi does not deserve the MVP. The team fell apart in August, and he does not deserve the award. >>
Whose alt are you ???
Derek Jeter a poor winner who loves to rub it in ??
Pal, I dont think you will get much support making that claim.
-- Yogi Berra
I apologize for calling you out. I thought that I’d gone after the other Yankee fan you chastised you for saying that you “almost felt sorry for the Red Sox.” It looks like the curse is back. When you get injuries (or heart trouble) to key players and then have a rookie come down with cancer, it looks like something is out to get you.
<< <i>Derek Jeter - My least favorite baseball player, at least in the modern era. Some of the 1919 Black Sox players are the only ones who beat him out.
He’s an arrogant little snot with attitude problem that makes my skin craw. He is the quintessential example of the poor winner who loves to rub in when others are down.
Go ahead a vote him to be the MVP. That will save George the trouble of having to buy this year’s MVP on the free agent market. George buys all the MVPs and Cy Young Award winners anyway, which why professional baseball sucks. When he gets a new stadium, paid for in part by the taxpayers, he'll be about to buy up all the runners up in the MVP balloting. Maybe then he'll win 150 games a season and show what a farce baseball is.
Edited to say, and NO, Papi does not deserve the MVP. The team fell apart in August, and he does not deserve the award. >>
Thank God nobody cares what you think.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
his thoughts are well taken. his views respected.
his points are lame though. IMO
Steve
<< <i>Derek Jeter - My least favorite baseball player, at least in the modern era. Some of the 1919 Black Sox players are the only ones who beat him out.
He’s an arrogant little snot with attitude problem that makes my skin craw. He is the quintessential example of the poor winner who loves to rub in when others are down.
Go ahead a vote him to be the MVP. That will save George the trouble of having to buy this year’s MVP on the free agent market. George buys all the MVPs and Cy Young Award winners anyway, which why professional baseball sucks. When he gets a new stadium, paid for in part by the taxpayers, he'll be about to buy up all the runners up in the MVP balloting. Maybe then he'll win 150 games a season and show what a farce baseball is.
Edited to say, and NO, Papi does not deserve the MVP. The team fell apart in August, and he does not deserve the award. >>
hahahaha, keep crying and whining. I'd rather root for a guy that whine and cry like he actually has done anything ever to you. You dummy, the Yankees are paying for for over 3/4 of the stadium. With as much business as those fans bring to the city, I have no idea why your complaining.
Go get your tissues.
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<< <i>No, there was never much "fun" to be found in the Yankee - Red Sox rivalry for Red Sox fans because, aside from 2004, it’s been nothing but the big brother beating up the little brother year after year. The 2003 acquisition of Alex Rodriguez, which the Yankees did more for spite more than anything else, and the results of 2003 Yankee – Red Sox play-offs, pretty well ended my interest baseball. I didn’t follow the 2004 season at all, didn’t even look at the standings, until the World Series. I just didn’t care any more.
I apologize for calling you out. I thought that I’d gone after the other Yankee fan you chastised you for saying that you “almost felt sorry for the Red Sox.” It looks like the curse is back. When you get injuries (or heart trouble) to key players and then have a rookie come down with cancer, it looks like something is out to get you. >>
He wanted out of Texas. The Sox didn't want to pay as much of his contract. They lost out. Also, I wouldn't compare the two franchises rivalry(which, lets face it...it's a landslide/no comparison) as a near sibling rivalry. Well, actually your right I do agree. The Sox(and more than a few true Sox fans I know) do act like a little annoying brother who in their heart they can run with the big boys. hahahaha, you really think the Yankees got A-Rod to spite another team? How about he consistently puts up HUGE numbers?
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<< <i>Looks like we have been blessed with an open forum refugee.
>>
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
September 12, 2006
Ortiz catching unfair heat
By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff
David Ortiz, needless to say, is unhappy to hear about headlines like the one that appeared in today's NY Post, which read "Ortiz Disses Jeter," or the photo of him that appears in the USA Today with the caption that says he believes he should be MVP.
The reason he's upset is because he said nothing of the sort. I know, because I'm the reporter he talked to after Sunday's game, a conversation that began with me asking Ortiz what he thought his chances were of winning the MVP. He formed a big fat zero with his hand.
He then made the point that he felt the big boppers, the guys who drive in 120 and hit 40 or more, are more deserving of the MVP than a Derek Jeter -- who he stressed was having a great year -- because they do more for their team. He also said that if he hits 50 and knocks in 15-20 more runs than anybody else, he should still be considered a candidate, even if the Sox have fallen out of the race, citing the precedent of A-Rod winning for a last-place Texas team in 2002.
That has been twisted into Ortiz being selfish, Ortiz campaigning for himself, Ortiz putting down Jeter, ridiculous.
And of course, with the Sox headed for NYC this weekend, the circus will only continue.
Sound like the same thing as everyone "thought" he said.
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<< <i>"He then made the point that he felt the big boppers, the guys who drive in 120 and hit 40 or more, are more deserving of the MVP than a Derek Jeter"
Sound like the same thing as everyone "thought" he said. >>
It is the rare professional athlete who shouldn't keep his opinions to himself 100% of the time, and Ortiz is not one of the exceptions. At this point a simple "that was a really stupid thing I said, and I apologize" would be the best course; all attempts to defend what he said just dig the hole that much deeper.
-- Yogi Berra
YOU CAN HAVE THE MVP Yapi!!! and bring that award with you to the golf course come October
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>the Yankees are paying for for over 3/4 of the stadium. >>
The Yankees should pay for the whole damned stadium. According to Playboy Steinbrenner has a net worth of over a billion dollars. I used to work in New York City, and New York City wage tax and state sales and income taxes are through the roof. Why should taxpayers subsidize the cancer that is growing on baseball? Why don't you Yankee fans pass the hat so the corporations can buy their skyboxes for a little less money? Sounds fair to me so the you can look at the best baseball money can buy in a first class facility.
<< <i>
<< <i>the Yankees are paying for for over 3/4 of the stadium. >>
The Yankees should pay for the whole damned stadium. According to Playboy Steinbrenner has a net worth of over a billion dollars. I used to work in New York City, and New York City wage tax and state sales and income taxes are through the roof. Why should taxpayers subsidize the cancer that is growing on baseball? Why don't you Yankee fans pass the hat so the corporations can buy their skyboxes for a little less money? Sounds fair to me so the you can look at the best baseball money can buy in a first class facility. >>
troll much?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>the Yankees are paying for for over 3/4 of the stadium. >>
The Yankees should pay for the whole damned stadium. According to Playboy Steinbrenner has a net worth of over a billion dollars. I used to work in New York City, and New York City wage tax and state sales and income taxes are through the roof. Why should taxpayers subsidize the cancer that is growing on baseball? Why don't you Yankee fans pass the hat so the corporations can buy their skyboxes for a little less money? Sounds fair to me so the you can look at the best baseball money can buy in a first class facility. >>
troll much? >>
Nope.
I’m just giving you an honest opinion. I’m not the first to argue that taxpayers should not be forced to foot the bill for sports stadiums. It’s been an issue at least since the days of the late Howard Cosell, who was a huge New York sports fan and journalist. When a team has as much money as the Yankees have, they don’t need to receive to corporate welfare.
Conservatives have chastised me many times for knocking the Yankees. Their argument is if the free market gives the Yankees all that money, then they should be free to buy up the whole game if they want. OK. Well if that’s the way it should be, then the Yankees should pay for their stadium with no taxpayer money.