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I'm I wrong for not wanting to pay?
Coins101
Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭
Recently, I bid on a mint sewed (so they say) bag of 1962 P pennies and won. The seller has a 7 day return policy - no questions asked. However, he will only refund the purchase price, not shipping.
After I won, I had a funny feeling about the bag and decided I did not want it. I know, i should have made the decision before pulling the trigger. Anyway, I emailed the seller and told him to offer it to the next (& only other) bidder and I would pay him $5.00 for his trouble. He emailed back and said the other bidder did not want them.
I emailed him again and said I did not want the bag and would compensate him for his listing and final evaluation fees (even though I know he can get these back from eBay) plus some extra for his trouble. I told him he offer a return policy and that I was, in effect, returning them without having them shipped, thus saving me the shipping cost and his trouble shipping them.
So far, he has not responded. Am I wrong by not taking possession of the bag and then shipping it back? It seems with a no questions ask return policy, it would be ok just to cancel the deal.
Thoughts? (Flame suit is currently deployed
)
After I won, I had a funny feeling about the bag and decided I did not want it. I know, i should have made the decision before pulling the trigger. Anyway, I emailed the seller and told him to offer it to the next (& only other) bidder and I would pay him $5.00 for his trouble. He emailed back and said the other bidder did not want them.
I emailed him again and said I did not want the bag and would compensate him for his listing and final evaluation fees (even though I know he can get these back from eBay) plus some extra for his trouble. I told him he offer a return policy and that I was, in effect, returning them without having them shipped, thus saving me the shipping cost and his trouble shipping them.
So far, he has not responded. Am I wrong by not taking possession of the bag and then shipping it back? It seems with a no questions ask return policy, it would be ok just to cancel the deal.
Thoughts? (Flame suit is currently deployed
) 0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
So I relisted it and got several questions asking what was wrong with it since the buyers had seen it sell or looked it up in history. I ended up taking quite a hit on it.
bottom line, you need to live with your mistakes and pay for your auctions. The rules of engagement are there for your own protection, they are not flexible nor [is ebay].
--Jerry
You bought it under obligation, so you need to follow thru with the transaction!
Thanks
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>Yes, you're very wrong. >>
Definitely wrong.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Realize, of course, that the seller may take a large hit if he relists it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Simply having a funny feeling though is no excuse in my opinion.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Even I'd say you're wrong. >>
And she's a fat pig.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>Even I'd say you're wrong. >>
And she was the queen of the open forum!
<< <i>
<< <i>Even I'd say you're wrong. >>
And she's a fat pig. >>
It's true.
<< <i>And she was the queen of the open forum! >>
A Queen with no realm.
Russ, NCNE
Of course, without mincing words, if a seller knows that you are not happy with a purchase and knows you have every intention of returning it, the classy thing is to just say no problem & generate goodwill - IMHO. I would NEVER be so retentive as to require a buyer pay and then have me ship and then have him ship back to me and then refund his $ (less shipping).
All that said, I can understand HIS position and he feels that if you bid on it you should follow thru but as long as he has a no questions asked return policy, it sorta doesn't make any sense to just go thru the motions of the shipping thing.
A classy move on YOUR part would be to tell him that you'll pay his listing/final value fees for the auction & whatever he gets back from eBay (just the final value fees) he keeps for his inconvenience.
Bottom line though, you're gonna have to do whatever he insists on & if you don't, YES, you're wrong.
p.s. got a link?
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
However, if the seller didn't want to handle it like that, yes, you *were* wrong. You should have paid the money and returned the item assuming there was a return period for any reason.
Camelot
Now, that's not to say that if I was a seller I wouldn't block you from buying from me in the future just to avoid future headaches. Still, that's about the only thing I'd worry about doing.
<< <i>Looks like I'm in the minority, but if I was a seller, I wouldn't have any problem with what you're saying. I'd be annoyed that the sale didn't go through, but if you: (a) had the right to return the item no questions asked; (b) fully intended to return it anyway; and (c) offered to repay any fees the seller incurred - then all you've done is (a) saved him time in relisting the item and (b) avoided the delays, costs, and risks of mailing the coins. He knew what risk he took on by offering a "no questions asked" return policy. To those who point out that he might have a difficult time selling them the second time around, I would just say that he'd have the exact same difficulties if he'd had it come back as a returned item. I don't see the problem here. I wouldn't worry about it. You ought to just leave each other positive feedbacks saying "thanks" and call it even.
Now, that's not to say that if I was a seller I wouldn't block you from buying from me in the future just to avoid future headaches. Still, that's about the only thing I'd worry about doing. >>
Well if he didn't do anything wrong ... why would you block him?
PS: I'm sorry your little piggy is sad.
2. You are asking for a negative.
San Diego, CA
It is interesting that I have had a couple of the similar situation, only reversed, where I was the seller. I was glad to cancel the transaction knowing the item was going to be returned (per the buyer - non-coin related). I kept the fee reimbursement as profit and re-sold the items (very easy to relist). I also saved me a trip to the post Offcie. I guess I am a little more forgiving than most.
The only "wrong" (and it's a doozie) was buying without full consideration.
eBay is a mess anyhow.
How much is that persons time worth? 5 bucks? Do you work for 5 bucks an hour?
You were very wrong
roadrunner
<< <i>Looks like I'm in the minority, but if I was a seller, I wouldn't have any problem with what you're saying. >>
As a seller myself I just let a bidder off the hook last week because he changed his mind. That still doesn't mean he isn't wrong.
<< <i>He knew what risk he took on by offering a "no questions asked" return policy. >>
A no questions asked return policy does not give a buyer the right to place bids willy nilly and then breach the deal simply because they changed their mind.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Or better yet, pay all fees plus whatever difference is in the price realized to the seller.
roadrunner >>
Reimbursing the seller for any shortfall in price that results (if applicable) from the item being relisted, sounds like a very fair solution.
<< <i>Did you consider the time the person put into taking photos, listing the item and time wasted on an auction (3-10 days)?
How much is that persons time worth? 5 bucks? Do you work for 5 bucks an hour?
You were very wrong >>
Well, considering he is going to get it back, per his own return policy, he is out nothing except packaging, labeling and shipping it, now isn't he (oh thats right - if he didn't ship, he wouldn't be out that either). Don't read more into it than the facts. It seems everyone seems to think once the item is shippped to me, it is a done deal. It's not. It is going back, per his own guidelines. After all, he will be working for nothing, zero, zip, if it gets shipped and returned and will be out my side of the fee reimbursement.
I was trying to save him some trouble. If he did not have the no question return policy, I would have paid him within minutes of the auction ending, as I do with all my wins (if only all my buyers were so considerate).
<< <i>I was trying to save him some trouble. >>
You could have done that by simply not bidding.
Russ, NCNE
If I were you, I'd ask the seller to hold off on giving you the well deserved negative for a few days, and put a $10 bill in an envelope and mail it to him.
But you probably won't.
You didn't have enough class to honor your bid, and you likely don't have the integrety to cover him for his trouble.
What's your Ebay screenname? I want to block you from my auctions.
Ray
You are right and that is just what I did.
Hopefully, he will ship in a timely manner cause I know I will. Who knows, maybe I will keep them as a door stop.
Thank you all for setting me straight.
<< <i>There's always going to be cases of buyers remorse.
If I were you, I'd ask the seller to hold off on giving you the well deserved negative for a few days, and put a $10 bill in an envelope and mail it to him.
But you probably won't.
You didn't have enough class to honor your bid, and you likely don't have the integrety to cover him for his trouble.
What's your Ebay screenname? I want to block you from my auctions.
Ray >>
Actually, I offered more than that the second time around but never heard from him.
Who said I didn't honor my bid? I only asked if we could mutually agree not to complete the transaction (even an option under ebay).
Bid has been honored and it is now a done deal.
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
<< <i>
A no questions asked return policy does not give a buyer the right to place bids willy nilly and then breach the deal simply because they changed their mind.
Russ, NCNE >>
Um, that's exactly the right that it gives the bidder. If you wanted to put conditions on the return policy (e.g. "Returns accepted only for damaged or misrepresented items") then the buyer wouldn't have the right to return a coin because they changed their mind. Notice I didn't say "breach the deal" - the deal was, "if you decide you want to return the item, we'll accept your return no questions asked."
<< <i>
<< <i>There's always going to be cases of buyers remorse.
If I were you, I'd ask the seller to hold off on giving you the well deserved negative for a few days, and put a $10 bill in an envelope and mail it to him.
But you probably won't.
You didn't have enough class to honor your bid, and you likely don't have the integrety to cover him for his trouble.
What's your Ebay screenname? I want to block you from my auctions.
Ray >>
Actually, I offered more than that the second time around but never heard from him.
Who said I didn't honor my bid? I only asked if we could mutually agree not to complete the transaction (even an option under ebay).
Bid has been honored and it is now a done deal. >>
That's neat that you think so, can we have your ebay username now?
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>
<< <i>A no questions asked return policy does not give a buyer the right to place bids willy nilly and then breach the deal simply because they changed their mind. >>
Um, that's exactly the right that it gives the bidder. If you wanted to put conditions on the return policy (e.g. "Returns accepted only for damaged or misrepresented items") then the buyer wouldn't have the right to return a coin because they changed their mind. Notice I didn't say "breach the deal" - the deal was, "if you decide you want to return the item, we'll accept your return no questions asked." >>
Paying for the item and returning it according to the stated return policy is not breaching the deal. Refusing to pay for it is.
It seems to me that the forum has been pretty tough on the OP, but if the reason for wanting to return the item were stronger than just having a bad feeling about it, maybe folks would have been more sympathetic.
<< <i>Paying for the item and returning it according to the stated return policy is not breaching the deal. Refusing to pay for it is. >>
Yes, but to be clear, the OP did not refuse to pay; he simply asked the dealer if there was a way they could agree not to complete the transaction, on terms acceptable to both parties. As an eBay seller, I would not have a problem with that, and in fact I've agreed to it on a couple occasions. I would rather not sell someone an item that he really doesn't want. I don't think that's good for my reputation, even if I take a hit for it in the short term.
<< <i>Paying for the item and returning it according to the stated return policy is not breaching the deal. Refusing to pay for it is. >>
I agree. However, the OP stated that he was offering to save them both shipping and time, but ended up paying for it. Mutually cancelling the deal is a valid option with eBay.
Sporkadelic wrote:
<< <i>There's a distinction to be made between what you have a right to do, and what's good form, i.e. what will earn you a good reputation as a buyer or as a seller. A no-questions-asked return policy certainly does give a buyer the right to return merchandise on the slightest whim, but the seller also has a perfect right (after honoring the terms of the deal) to consider the buyer unreliable and choose not to do further business with him. The OP has made the best of the current situation, I think, by going forward with the deal. There's always the option to sell it yourself, on eBay or elsewhere, if it's not something you want to keep.
It seems to me that the forum has been pretty tough on the OP, but if the reason for wanting to return the item were stronger than just having a bad feeling about it, maybe folks would have been more sympathetic. >>
I absolutely agree with all of what you said. I was just pointing out that (a) the OP didn't break the rules and (b) in my opinion, the OP made a valid suggestion to the seller. If the seller wanted to go ahead with the deal and return...well, that makes little sense to me, but to each their own.
Oh, and I think the OP ought to go ahead and post his username and get blocked - I don't think that those who are out for his blood are the sort I'd want to buy from anyway. I'm reminded (once again) why I rarely post here vs across the street.
<< <i>A no questions asked return policy does not give a buyer the right to place bids willy nilly and then breach the deal simply because they changed their mind.
Russ, NCNE >>
Um, that's exactly the right that it gives the bidder. >>
A no questions asked return policy is designed to give the buyer a chance to view the coin and decide whether or not it is to his liking. It is not an out for changing ones mind before even receiving the item.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Maybe that's the intention, but my point was that the letter of the law (or agreement, in this case) doesn't define such a return policy in that way. >>
What do you think the word "return" means? It's pretty hard to "return" something that was never received.
Russ, NCNE
Within the world of eBay, you're actions are wrong.
If you ordered something from Sears, then called back and canceled your order before it shipped, that wouldn't be wrong.
But eBay ain't Sears, and when you joined you agreed to abide by their user agreement. And you entered into a contract with the seller to purchase his item. Now you are trying to breech that agreement by not paying.