Poll: My very first hypothetical

Leiana

You are wandering the bourse with your mind set on finding THE Capped Bust Half for your collection. THE CBH would be a VF coin with original surfaces and no signs of damage (new scratches, bad rim bumps, et cetera) and no overwhelming evidence of cleaning. A dipped and retoned coin would be acceptable.

After wandering all day, and suffering from "Bourse Food", you arrive at the last two tables. The first table has a raw VF CBH that fits your high standards! Oh the joy! But before you shell out, you look at the last table. just in case. This table has THE CBH as well! Only this CBH is slabbed as a VF20 by a leading TPG.

You walk back and forth comparing the two coins. There just does not seem to be an appreciable difference in overall quality. Both coins are acceptable.

Now- the question: The raw CBH is priced less than the slabbed one (For arguement's sake, they are the same date). Which one do you buy?

Thanks,

Amanda

TorinoCobra71

The Slabbed One......

TorinoCobra71

tpfnar

The raw one.

You can take the money you save and buy a Intercept Shield for your new coin, with money left over

coinguy1

<<The raw CBH is priced less than the slabbed one >>

Amanda, hypothetically speaking, how much less?

ER

Slabbed one, of course. Slab is safe.

TorinoCobra71

<< <i><<The raw CBH is priced less than the slabbed one >>

Amanda, hypothetically speaking, how much less? >>



SmartyPants™



TorinoCobra71

TAClough

Is the raw one's price cheaper by more then the grading fees / postage / insurance of the certified one? If so and you are comfortable that it is genuine and unaltered, but the raw one.

Leiana

<< <i><<The raw CBH is priced less than the slabbed one >>

Amanda, hypothetically speaking, how much less? >>



I wanted to put in a difference, Mark, but I have never priced these before. Plus, the PCGS price guide does not include values for VF for some reason.

Plus, what is substantial to me might not be substantial to someone else. Assume about 25-50 dollars. I guess.

-Amanda

DieClash

Somehow while surfing these boards I keep reading the mantra "Buy the coin not the plastic". So I'd buy the coin all things being equal and assuming that I'm an accomplished Numismatist. If however I doubted my abilities I would seek out expertiese advise. Why pay more for the plastic? And for those of you who chose to buy the TPG cert. over the raw coin, all things being equal: How's come?

MrEureka

While you folks quibble about price, I'll opt for the raw coin. If this is my dream CBH, it means I'm working on a circ set of something, which means (in my case) that my collection is raw, which means that my CBH will need to be raw to fit in with the collection. It's a decision based on aesthetics, not safety. Not that I think I'd be safer with a slabbed VF CBH, of course.

dlimb2

If the price difference is on $25 then it is the slabbed....

FatMan

No two coins are equal. I would buy the one I prefered regardless of plastic. BTW, I am very picky when it gets near the end of a show. Unless they are spectacular I would likely pass on both. The idea of going home empty handed near the end of a show often adds a point or two to the grade. I have a couple of coins I bought at the end of a show that I wish I had not. I have learned it is OK to go home empty handed.

Aegis3

Same quality, different price. Go for the less expensive one, raw in this hypothetical. Slabs are for backup authenticity purposes only, and for VF bust halves, this would not be much of an issue.

(OTOH, all the bust halves I have are raw, and they're all counterfeit!)

(That last comment should not be read in any sense negatively.)

coinguy1

<<No two coins are equal. I would buy the one I prefered regardless of plastic>>

Ok, me too.

LanLord

There is just no simple answer to this question. I need to see each coin and determine the features of each. I'd buy the one that best catches my eye, and possibly both.

JRocco

I only buy slabbed coins, in fact if the coins to either side of the slabbed coin are raw I will pass on the coin----you never know what those raw coins could do to a nice slabbed coin.....I saw it happen once- and it was ugly......

clw54

<< <i>No two coins are equal. I would buy the one I prefered regardless of plastic. BTW, I am very picky when it gets near the end of a show. Unless they are spectacular I would likely pass on both. The idea of going home empty handed near the end of a show often adds a point or two to the grade. I have a couple of coins I bought at the end of a show that I wish I had not. I have learned it is OK to go home empty handed. >>


This advice is worth a thread in itself.

123cents

The slabbed one.

ziggy29

Depends. If it's for a raw collection, like a 7070, why pay for a slab you're going to crack out if the coins look essentially the same?

Bunker

The idea of going home empty handed near the end of a show often adds a point or two to the grade

That is a good point. If I was comfortable that the raw coin was "all there" and assuming the above quote isn't coming into play I would buy the raw coin.

lava

<< <i><<No two coins are equal. I would buy the one I prefered regardless of plastic>>

Ok, me too. >>



That advice is ok is you are a former professional grader with a trained eye, but for the everage Joe or Joanna, pay the money and buy the PCGS coin. (Not all slabs are created equally). You'll have greater peace of mind, and an easiery time selling a slabbed coin. A no brainer. If the price difference is so great you can't afford the slabbed coin, wait -- there are always good deals to be had.

kyleknap

Lava is correct, in my opinion. Assuming the "slabbed" coin is slabbed by a reputable company, you at the very least know that it was looked at by someone else, someone who in all likelihood has seen a lot more "CBHs" than you have. Now, if you're MrEureka or Coinguy1, this doesn't matter; however, for many people, this can mean escaping a potentially expensive mistake. Most collectors can spot harsh cleaning or damage, but how many, for example, can be consistent in recognizing coins that have less obvious, but every bit as damaging, problems. Issues such as well-done tooling or repair, a light whizzing, a minor wipe, good artificial toning, the difference between a scratch that will no-grade a coin and a scratch that is acceptable, etc. Things such as this jump out as blatantly obvious to people who know what they're looking at. Unfortunately, those people are few and far between, no matter how much they spend on coins, or how much they think they know.

Kyle

MikeInFL

The answer to your hypothetical, to me at least, both depends on the exact spread of the price and your confidence in your ability to grade coins.

I assumed you were confident in your abilities, and therefore chose the cheaper coin (raw).

However, reading further and noting you made the spread ($20-50) just about the price of grading a coin, I would pick the coin I liked the most, regardless of the holder or lack thereof.

Assuming, for a moment, that the coins were truly equal...I would evaluate my use of the coin in more detail. For instance, if I were planning on selling the coin in the near future (say a year or so), I would probably consider the value of the slab more. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking of course, the CBH were headed for a certain hypothetical Dansco 7070 , I wouldn't hesitate purchasing the raw coin.

Hypothetically yours...Mike

messydesk

Mmmm.... Bourse food

Anyway, if the only difference between the two is a $20-50 markup for a plastic holder, I'd probably buy the raw one, then put it in a Coin World holder for $1.75. Heck, I'd even reconfigure my VAMSlab software for CBHs (O'Slabs?). By the time I go to sell it, which probably won't be soon since it's the perfect CBH, potential buyers would quibble over the grade, anyway. Of course, I do have about 10-15 CBHs in VF-AU in TPG plastic.

(Congrats on your first hypothetical, BTW.)

ColonialCoinUnion

I'd take the better coin. If the coins were equal, I'd take the slabbed one.

ar18

I like them raw judges my eagle eye and lucky loupe!

lkenefic

I'd track down OKBustchaser and get his opinion.. Seriously though, if the two coins were essentially the same and you have faith in your abilities to determine grade and potential detractions I'd go raw. I'd then take the difference and apply it to another coin

goldisgood

Buy them both of course. DUH GUYS!!!!!

mozin

I want all my CBHs to be encapsulated by one of the major grading services. I would buy the slabbed coin, because I have given up the hassle in submitting coins to the grading services.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>

<< <i>No two coins are equal. I would buy the one I prefered regardless of plastic. BTW, I am very picky when it gets near the end of a show. Unless they are spectacular I would likely pass on both. The idea of going home empty handed near the end of a show often adds a point or two to the grade. I have a couple of coins I bought at the end of a show that I wish I had not. I have learned it is OK to go home empty handed. >>


This advice is worth a thread in itself. >>



You could call the thread "closing time"

I voted raw, if you like the coin, trust your eye, and aren't looking to resell it - which your premise seems to support.

rec78

I would take the raw one--Why pay more for a coin that i am going to bust out and put in an album? If i bought it for resale then i would still buy the raw one--Why?- Because most bust half collectors are astute enough to have enough confidence to buy them raw. Also a VF bust half is not that expensive. JMHO. Bob

RedTiger

Given the background of the person posting this thread, the choice is clear--buy the raw coin. Odds are it is going into the 7070 album, not stay in its slab. If it is a common date in VF, there is not much incentive to mess with it. Sure it may have been dipped a long time ago, but at VF it looks fine retoned. The next grade up or down isn't that big a difference in price. If bought from a reputable dealer, the odds of a fake Bust half are not even measurable. The only reason to buy slabbed is resale over Ebay and if a person is buying at a show they can sell at the show.

Now, if it a MS63 Bust Half instead of VF, or a key date vs. a common date for a type album, or the coin is $2 1/2 gold Indian that is widely counterfeited, the answer would be to buy the slabbed coin. VF Bust halves are somewhere in the range of $100 or so depending on how nice and how good a person can bargain. That may be a good deal of money for some people, but it is really on the low price end for most people to be sending in the coin to PCGS. If the price is more like $200, the answer might be different.

The original poster also has shown some talent for grading. For a wet behind the ears newbie, again I might have a different answer because they might go for some whizzed and polished shiny coin that looks cool to their newbie eyes. However for someone who has a good grasp of grading, buying a circulated coin of relatively modest cost sight seen, where the odds of a fake or altered or enhanced coin are relatively small, raw is the no-brainer choice.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>I'd track down OKBustchaser and get his opinion.. >>



Thanks for the plug.

I would recommend the raw one. If "THE CBH" for a collection is in VF grade then I would want the entire (type????) collection raw. Chances of being hurt too badly on any one coin in such a collection would be minimal and the value of most of the coins in the collection would not warrant grading fees.

On the other hand, if the collection was high AU to MS in grade then I would recommend slabbed coins. I feel that most average collectors (for that matter the average dealer) aren't astute enough in the characteristics of all series to buy properly. A mistake at this level (on many of the coins in a set) could be quite painful.








I bet there are a few people on here who know me that are by that last paragraph!

ANACONDA

Many people are over confident about their abilities in grading and determining whether a coin has been cleaned or suffers from some other problem. Take advantage of the expertise of the grading companies and buy a holdered coin if it's not significantly more expensive. You can always crack it out.

ksteelheader

<< <i>Which one do you buy? >>



Neither. I collect Modern Canadian Crap!!

jayboxx

Buy them both of course. DUH GUYS!!!!!

messydesk

<< <i>Many people are over confident about their abilities in grading and determining whether a coin has been cleaned or suffers from some other problem. Take advantage of the expertise of the grading companies and buy a holdered coin if it's not significantly more expensive. You can always crack it out. >>



Luke Skywalker: Your overconfidence is your weakness.
Emperor Palpatine: Your faith in your friends is yours.

In other words, the TPGs don't identify problems consistently, and there is a bit more wiggle room on problems for early stuff than there is for Morgan dollars.