In light of this AT debacle there is something very bad and one thing good...

saintguru

This is very good for gold.

In all seriousness....

This is VERY bad for coins. This has a very likely chance of making Coin World...and I feel terrible for those who bought toned coins from anyone less that a highly respected dealer. This is the "Omega" scandal of the new millenium. Many have been hurt and trusts have been breeched, and the whoe truth has not been told yet. It's coming in bits and pieces, but "accidental environmental" toning doesn't wash.

I think this is not going to go away as fast as some quick to hug and forgive may.

FatMan

saintguru, this will only have a tiny ripple. I cannot believe there is such surprise that this is occurring with the coins. If this has opened anyone's eyes it is only because they new to the hobby or have had their head buried in the sand. The evidence of doctored coins both raw and in holders is everywhere, gold included. What should have been an eye opener is that these doctors walk amongst us and we don't know it. It is not the doctoring that surpised me, it was who was doing it.

IrishMike

As I said in a thread I authored let's not over react to what this latest disclosure will do to the hobby. I hope you are not suggesting that gold isn't as messed with as other metals are.

Wolf359

I cannot believe there is such surprise that this is occurring with the coins. If this has opened anyone's eyes it is only because they have had their head buried in the sand

Yeah, really. Geez AT has been going on since before PCGS came along. The clueless just
got a clue that's all.

ziggy29

Personally I think it's a very big negative for those who primarily rely on TPGs to give their "stamp of approval" on a coin before they buy it.

Long term it could be good for collectors who rely on their own education and knowledge if it sends enough investors and casual collectors "screaming for the exits" and drives down prices.

pharmer

I believe they've published articles by those who seem to have an ax to grind against toned coins, so it would be no surprise if this occurred. But it may be overstating the importance of this particular forum in the scheme of things.

elwood

I would like to know exaclty how many coins MOC actually colored. He never has told us.

This is all old news, it's just the Who that is new.

There's much more serious crap going on out there than this incident.

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>This is very good for gold.

In all seriousness....

This is VERY bad for coins. This has a very likely chance of making Coin World...and I feel terrible for those who bought toned coins from anyone less that a highly respected dealer. This is the "Omega" scandal of the new millenium. Many have been hurt and trusts have been breeched, and the whoe truth has not been told yet. It's coming in bits and pieces, but "accidental environmental" toning doesn't wash.

I think this is not going to go away as fast as some quick to hug and forgive may.





>>



I totally disagree. This was one individual who got caught at doing something that everyone knows was being done by more than one person in one way or another, and is likely still being attempted by others. And apparently the wrong-doing was with Morgans in rattler holders with a very distinct 'look' to the toning. The only about this is that the person is a respected forum member. Other than that, I'm surprised so many people are so surprised. Keep an eye on the next many auctions that contain the beautiful toned coins. I don't thing anything will change as far as their desirability or value. It will take a little time, but this will fade away until the next scandal.

saintguru

OK....Maybe I'm overstating. Go to the next thread...come on...MOVE ALONG!!

FatMan

Jay, I am really much concerned with what is being done with gold today than I am with MS63 common date morgans. These pieces are being messed with faster than serious collectors can save them from the butchers. The recent RYK Norweb disclosure should terify both of us.

notwilight

<< <i> The recent RYK Norweb disclosure should terify both of us. >>



I don't do toned coins but I do do gold. Gotta link?

Thanks,
Jerry

saintguru

FatMan....I am cautious about everything. One thing that I have done from the early stages of collecting was being lucky enough to meet Steve Duckor and David Akers who insisted that find coins that have original surfaces.

This is quite easy to determine with Saints...although the availability is not so easy. So perhaps in a peripheral way, it's a minor issue.

RYK

<< The recent RYK Norweb disclosure should terify both of us. >>

I don't do toned coins but I do do gold. Gotta link?



Link

RedTiger

It is big news here in this pond, but this pond only contains about 3% of collectors. It will have a neglible impact on prices. A very few coins are involved in the mea culpa. A very few collectors will bid less or pay less. In the big scheme of things dumb money will still pay stupid money for toners, AT or not. Eventually, it is the market mechanism that will bring it into balance. When enough toners have been holdered to satisfy the demand, when enough collectors wise up and see that these coins are being made in a basement somewhere and not heirlooms from 50 years of storage, prices will adjust. The recent events are a small part of that adjustment, not the wholesale winds of change.

Again, for any new collectors reading out there, it is a minefield. If you want to pay stupid money for toners that is your perogative. However, go in with your eyes open. That no matter how nice looking the coin, there is a chance it was made in the past year, and whoever made it, is making more of them. Anyone who walks a bourse or scans Ebay sees more and more toners showing up during the past two years. The logical conclusion is that more are being made by the minute. Expert dealers and top graders have been fooled. Don't think you are immune from being tricked. The coin doctors play for keeps and it is often your money (the novice collector's) that they get first. The coin doctors get better every day.

gsaguy

I've heard about as many horror stories on gold as I have on toned coins. I suspect the bigger the coin, the bigger the temptation.

Leiana

The thing that makes this so much worse for me is that it happened to a coin that was already in a slab.

That's a BIG difference than raw AT crap on eBay.

It's similar to the blue IHC's that have recently been slabbed by NGC, but as the TPG had a chance to catch the AT and did not, this is worse.

-Amanda