Should PCGS/NGC guarantee natural toning?

RYK

One could make the argument that there is no reason that the TPGs should guarantee natural toning. This would have many benefits including:

1. Fewer AT vs. NT threads
2. Less potential liability for them.
3. One less thing for the graders to worry about.
4. One less thing for MBT to worry about being guaranteed.

If I were David Hall and Mark Salzberg, right now, I would be look for a way out of the whole toning morass and only guarantee technical grade and authenticity and leave it up to us collectors to figure out this AT/NT business.

Bochiman

If they BB for toning "issues", then yes.
If they slab a toned coin, and BB others for questionable toning, that is an endorsement, imho.

mgoodm3

Might not be a bad idea to go back to the old NGC "W" degisnation for non-toned coins.

coinkat

I am not trying to hijack the thread, but an original surfaces designation makes more sense.

robertpr

PPQ - "Premium Paper Quality" - PCGS currency uses it to denote "original surfaces" that haven't been ironed, etc. or whatever those guys do to the paper. While I'm not a paper collector, I think it's a stupid thing to do. Why? Because, shouldn't every note they holder have PPQ?

ABC123

What does NGC & PCGS presently guarantee ?

RYK

PCGS/NGC do not guaranteed that your coin has not been dipped, cleaned, lasered, ultrasounded, why should they guarantee that your coin has not been gasses or baked???

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>I am not trying to hijack the thread, but an original surfaces designation makes more sense. >>



AMEN!!! wholeheartedly.

coinkat

robertpr:

It appears that you think it is a stupid idea... and you are entitled to your thoughts and views. Unfortunately, there have been too many threads on this forum that complain about how the remaining original population of coins is being exterminated by greedy bad folks (edited to be politically correct) that are out to squeeze every last nickel out of a coin not understanding the consequences... I have been a believer in an original surfaces concept for about 3 years now. And in the past three years, there have been no suggestions made that could be reasonably implemented to address this concern that many collectors have regarding original coins. I have heard nothing but sad, sad excuses as to why it won't work... well what is currently happening is a far worse alternative than sitting back and doing nothing at all.

I can say I have participated in this forum in part to attempt to make TPG more responsive to what is required to make this hobby what it can and should be. Lets sit back and do nothing and lets see where that leads... more posts about more original coins that have been enhanced to make extra bucks... its truly a great hobby isn't it??

robertpr

<< <i>robertpr:

It appears that you think it is a stupid idea... and you are entitled to your thoughts and views. Unfortunately, there have been too many threads on this forum that complain about how the remaining original population of coins is being exterminated by greedy bad folks (edited to be politically correct) that are out to squeeze every last nickel out of a coin not understanding the consequences... I have been a believer in an original surfaces concept for about 3 years now. And in the past three years, there have been no suggestions made that could be reasonably implemented to address this concern that many collectors have regarding original coins. I have heard nothing but sad, sad excuses as to why it won't work... well what is currently happening is a far worse alternative than sitting back and doing nothing at all.

I can say I have participated in this forum in part to attempt to make TPG more responsive to what is required to make this hobby what it can and should be. Lets sit back and do nothing and lets see where that leads... more posts about more original coins that have been enhanced to make extra bucks... its truly a great hobby isn't it?? >>



Coinkat-

Many people believe you can tell original surfaces. I don't believe you can. A properly and well-done dip job can be indistinguishable from an original-skinned coin. A well done AT job can also be indistinguishable from an original surfaces coin. How many people have you heard complain that their grades were wrong, missing a designation, etc. and how many people do you hear about cracking a coin that is undergraded, missing a designation, etc. resubmitting until they get the grade they (and their wallets) like and then WHAMO it's maxed out and sold. The more grading qualifiers we add, the more of a game it becomes. While you mean well, adding an "original surfaces" designation does more to make it a game and does less to add assurances, IMHO

majorbigtime

I'd start with guaranteeing authenticity--it's surely far more important than toning!

RBinTex

Yes. But w/the guarantee will come a whole lot more BB's for "questionable toning".

coinkat

<< <i>Coinkat- >>



<< <i>Many people believe you can tell original surfaces. I don't believe you can. A properly and well-done dip job can be indistinguishable from an original-skinned coin. A well done AT job can also be indistinguishable from an original surfaces coin. How many people have you heard complain that their grades were wrong, missing a designation, etc. and how many people do you hear about cracking a coin that is undergraded, missing a designation, etc. resubmitting until they get the grade they (and their wallets) like and then WHAMO it's maxed out and sold. The more grading qualifiers we add, the more of a game it becomes. While you mean well, adding an "original surfaces" designation does more to make it a game and does less to add assurances, IMHO >>



I disagree...

Part of the purpose and need for this designation is to keep high end circulated examples of type coins, early gold and key dates of many different series original... the way many collectors like to have them including the person that started this thread. Too many original gold, bust coinage, seated coinage has been enhanced in hopes of a higher grade and making more $$. Original high circs can be identified with a reasonable degree of accuracy to make such a designation work... NOT TO USE THE DESIGNATION seems to suggest and imply that there is no real difference between a dipped out POS and an original beauty even though both coins are in an AU50 holder. Then, it comes time to sell, and my original coin gets the same the grey sheet treatment from dealer X that is unwarranted.

The TPG companies need to recognize that there is a two tiered market... original coins and those coins that just don't have the same appeal for reasons that have been expressed here on the forums in several threads. If you truly believe that original coins are goining to survive in this environment without help from TPG companies, well then I guess the Cubs are playing in the World Series come October.

MrEureka

If you truly believe that original coins are goining to survive in this environment without help from TPG companies, well then I guess the Cubs are playing in the World Series come October.

Forget the TPGs. They don't care. Besides, it's our job to protect the coins.

coinkat

Andy:

I know it is our job but having some folks with alittle influence would make better for everyone.

MrEureka

having some folks with alittle influence would make better for everyone

World peace would also be nice.

bidask

<< <i>I am not trying to hijack the thread, but an original surfaces designation makes more sense. >>

An original surfaces designation makes alot of sense and I wish they had begun giving that out years ago. Resubmissions would theoretically have to occur now to get that designation.

FatMan

<< <i>having some folks with alittle influence would make better for everyone

World peace would also be nice. >>

Thank you Miss New York