UPDATED: 20-cent Proofs - New Pictures
Prethen
Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭
There's a good chance I'll be acquiring my first 20-cent Proof (more on that after I receive it), so my thoughts turn to this Proof type. A total of 5000 were produced. It appears that many survive, based on population reports (taking into account a "reasonable" resubmission ratio).
Most of the 20-cent Proofs I've seen in either auction or in person (or through others that have seen them) are dogs, no matter what the grade. Typically, you have to get above PF63 in order to have a prayer of having a halfway decent looking coin. The mirrors are generally crappy on these coins, either hazy or subdued due to hazing and/or poor dip jobs.
What are your feelings on the following:
Most of the 20-cent Proofs I've seen in either auction or in person (or through others that have seen them) are dogs, no matter what the grade. Typically, you have to get above PF63 in order to have a prayer of having a halfway decent looking coin. The mirrors are generally crappy on these coins, either hazy or subdued due to hazing and/or poor dip jobs.
What are your feelings on the following:
- Out of 5000, optimistically, how many do you think realistically survive today in ANY condition? How overstated do you feel are the population reports?
- Why are so many of them so doggy, especially when they're made out of silver and similar counterparts don't seem to quite look so doggy so often (Proof Dimes, Quarters, etc.)?
- Of the surviving numbers, what percentage would you say has "decent eye appeal" (however you define it; I generally feel decent eye appeal will mean that the coin still retains medium-deep mirrors and no serious detracting marks/problems)
- Do you think these coins are overpriced at today's levels? Of course, the market is relatively efficient and the prices are what they are for a reason, but sometimes a coin can be overpromoted or hoarded to drive up prices.
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Comments
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Date......Mintage...Population
1875.......2790.........517
1876.......1260.........630
1877.........350.........507
1878.........600.........670
The only conclusion I can come to is that the population reports are completely meaningless. That's 5,000 coins minted and 2,324 in PCGS and NGC slabs. And more slabbed 1877s and 1878s than minted. Breen states that 450 coins are documented as having been melted on June 29, 1878, leaving a combined mintage of 4,450.
One of the traits of mid 1870s proof coins is a lack of mirrors. By 1879 the quality had noticeably improved. I have found 1875 and 1877 as two of the toughest dates to find with nice eye appeal for all proof seateds. Breen also noted that many of the 20c pieces suffered from cleaning, perhaps an attempt to help their appearance. Using your definition of an eye-appelaing coin with medium-deep mirrors and no serious detractions, I'd guess 2-3% survive (and I have to automatically exclude any conserved coin in the survival rate.)
<< <i>20-cent Proofs >>
Yes, please!
20C proofs are expensive, but they always have been.
As they say, the value of something is based on what somebody will pay for it...
Here is mine. It looks original to me.
I only collect circulation strikes, but I almost bought a PF55 offered by Bowers and Merena at auction a couple years back (or was it Heritage??). I'd like to get a circulated '77 and '78 some day (if they're available).
Obscurum per obscurius
These pictures are by no means as nice as what most people who show pictures on this board can do, but here they are for what they're worth...
It eclipses the survival rate of the 1913 V Nickel. (In 1877/1878 that is)
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
Hoard the keys.
I remember he wanted the bread loaf sooo bad..then he quit posting ?