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SLABS ARE THE WORST THING IN NUMISMATICS TO COME OUT!!
Bruceswar
Posts: 2,869
Slabs have done nothing good for the Hobby! They have created crooks(SGS), thousands of people who can't grade and rely on what the slab tells them. Mear SHEEP!
I recently read an article in one of the coin magazines that said "Some experts have learned to grade". That should not be SOME it should be every last one of us here and all the others collecting coins.
With the introduction of slabs people are buying coins they would have never bought before since they can Trust the TPG's Grading and look up a price via a price guide or Auction Archives. I see people buying all sorts of early proofs and knowing little info on the strinking, aspects or other things about the coin. All they know is they like it and it s a proof, maybe even a toned one. One grade point can make a coin go from $500.00 to $5,000.00 just because of the plastic it is in.
There are thousands of "sheep" buying slabs and not the coins! Now we even have sellers hyping OGH's like the coins should be undergraded and a lock for an upgrade! Why not learn to grade yourself and not worry about whose holder it is in? Take whatever the TPG says cover it up... and if you cannot tell the grade on the coin the don't buy it as you don't know enough to.
Takes us back before the Pre TPG era and coins were bought and sold on merits not what some slab says. I recently took a look at the registry, which in most part is a joke, unless you just want to show off your coins. I like that aspect of it but a set with no Pictures is pointless and a waste, (IMHO).
I can understand people who want the best coins they can afford and to have the greatest sets, which I cannot fault them on but nowadays all you need is money and not knowledge! I have also seen registry sets with coins and photos and there are some coins in the set that are clearly wrongfully graded!
The crackout game is a joke as well, since after all its the same coin no matter what number they put on the holder. Coin grading has got a bit tighter as of late on certain series' but it should not matter how the TPG's are grading at a certain period of time.
Slabs have also been a huge part in ruining many coins original skins, by dipping in hopes of an upgrade. Think of all the early American coins dipped and stripped. Before a slab it would not matter if it got to the next level as a dealer could sell the coins on its merits with the original skin on it. Dipped out coins suck.
If you want to argue the fact that Slabs have made coin buyer safer... thats Nonsense! You can still get a lot of crap in slabs and not only the lesser slabs! Just take a look at Ebay and see all the coins being sold outside of slabs that have problems! Slabbing has not stopped the problem coins from being sold to unsuspecting buyers, the majority of which do not know any better.
You say slabs offer a good protection and keep coins from getting hurt? It seems a great many coins survived many years without slabs. All slabs have done is made us less carefull when holding coins. If you drop a slab its ok since it is a plastic, unless it a new ANACS slab, then it might crack.
Now take away the slab and I bet you are much more careful with the coin. If someone would be kind enough to tell one good thing that has come out of a slab infested coin market please let me know. Until then, read books, learn to grade and know what you buy before you waste your hard earned money. Thanks and debate away!
Thanks Boom!
I recently read an article in one of the coin magazines that said "Some experts have learned to grade". That should not be SOME it should be every last one of us here and all the others collecting coins.
With the introduction of slabs people are buying coins they would have never bought before since they can Trust the TPG's Grading and look up a price via a price guide or Auction Archives. I see people buying all sorts of early proofs and knowing little info on the strinking, aspects or other things about the coin. All they know is they like it and it s a proof, maybe even a toned one. One grade point can make a coin go from $500.00 to $5,000.00 just because of the plastic it is in.
There are thousands of "sheep" buying slabs and not the coins! Now we even have sellers hyping OGH's like the coins should be undergraded and a lock for an upgrade! Why not learn to grade yourself and not worry about whose holder it is in? Take whatever the TPG says cover it up... and if you cannot tell the grade on the coin the don't buy it as you don't know enough to.
Takes us back before the Pre TPG era and coins were bought and sold on merits not what some slab says. I recently took a look at the registry, which in most part is a joke, unless you just want to show off your coins. I like that aspect of it but a set with no Pictures is pointless and a waste, (IMHO).
I can understand people who want the best coins they can afford and to have the greatest sets, which I cannot fault them on but nowadays all you need is money and not knowledge! I have also seen registry sets with coins and photos and there are some coins in the set that are clearly wrongfully graded!
The crackout game is a joke as well, since after all its the same coin no matter what number they put on the holder. Coin grading has got a bit tighter as of late on certain series' but it should not matter how the TPG's are grading at a certain period of time.
Slabs have also been a huge part in ruining many coins original skins, by dipping in hopes of an upgrade. Think of all the early American coins dipped and stripped. Before a slab it would not matter if it got to the next level as a dealer could sell the coins on its merits with the original skin on it. Dipped out coins suck.
If you want to argue the fact that Slabs have made coin buyer safer... thats Nonsense! You can still get a lot of crap in slabs and not only the lesser slabs! Just take a look at Ebay and see all the coins being sold outside of slabs that have problems! Slabbing has not stopped the problem coins from being sold to unsuspecting buyers, the majority of which do not know any better.
You say slabs offer a good protection and keep coins from getting hurt? It seems a great many coins survived many years without slabs. All slabs have done is made us less carefull when holding coins. If you drop a slab its ok since it is a plastic, unless it a new ANACS slab, then it might crack.
Now take away the slab and I bet you are much more careful with the coin. If someone would be kind enough to tell one good thing that has come out of a slab infested coin market please let me know. Until then, read books, learn to grade and know what you buy before you waste your hard earned money. Thanks and debate away!
Thanks Boom!
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Comments
Your rambling nonsence is made all the worse because you have it all lumped together.
Didn't you have English classes in the school you attended?
Oh, in response, if you don't like slabs just don't buy them.
Ray
<< <i>Your rambling nonsence is made all the worse because you have it all lumped together.
Didn't you have English classes in the school you attended?
Oh, in response, if you don't like slabs just don't buy them.
Ray >>
Yes I might have rambled a bit, but what I spoke was truth. And by large part I don't buy slabs. In the series I collect I am good at grading. No need for some slab to tell me what grade my coins are. I took my time and learned to grade before I started buying the coins. Oh we did have English classes, but we all know School is soo watered down.
"Slabs bad, me no sell enough guitars to buy big coin." "Me mad."
I agree but at least you know what your getting.
My TV Blog
<< <i>I'll translate.
"Slabs bad, me no sell enough guitars to buy big coin." "Me mad."
I agree but at least you know what your getting.
I don't expect this line of thinking to sweep over the coin industry, but I felt the need to vioce my opinion. So you said you agree with which part?
Showed my coins to a Queens coin dealer who said they're nothing if not slabbed. I got sad stopped the hobby.
Got a computer a few years back and saw all the slabs realized what a joke most slabs are and started collecting for fun again.
Also bought some bad slabbed coin during my break from the hobby.
My TV Blog
<< <i>I started collecting not even knowing that slabs existed. I was happy.
Showed my coins to a Queens coin dealer who said they're nothing if not slabbed. I got sad stopped the hobby.
Got a computer a few years back and saw all the slabs realized what a joke most slabs are and started collecting for fun again.
Also bought some bad slabbed coin during my break from the hobby. >>
That dealer was and still is a Pig! I am glad you are collecting for fun, which is what we should all do! Thanks for sharing!
But I understand what you mean I would look past the plastic and ignore the grade. I can now judge for myself whether it's worth my money.
And that Queens NY dealer did say it a bit nicer than that, he just made it clear I wasn't fully knowledgable on the hobby. Plus I think he's dead his shop has been closed for a while.
My TV Blog
<< <i>Don't get me wrong if I see a coin I like I will buy it even if slabbed, assuming I can afford it.
But I understand what you mean I would look past the plastic and ignore the grade. I can now judge for myself whether it's worth my money.
And that Queens NY dealer did say it a bit nicer than that, he just made it clear I wasn't fully knowledgable on the hobby. Plus I think he's dead his shop has been closed for a while. >>
Sorry to hear about his death. I am not saying I will pass on any slabbed coin. But I do not take the TPG grade into effect when I am buying it. I look for myself. I grade. If I like the price I buy it.
<< <i>I didn't read anything in this thread. Anyone who writes like you doesn't deserve a thought or consideration from an educated community. I'm sure those who bothered made you feel fortunate. It always makes me wonder how someone like you knows what a coin is. You're very boring to look at. get an education. >>
Aren't you special?
<< <i>I didn't read anything in this thread. Anyone who writes like you doesn't deserve a thought or consideration from an educated community. I'm sure those who bothered made you feel fortunate. It always makes me wonder how someone like you knows what a coin is. You're very boring to look at. get an education. >>
Thats fine if you want to ignore the post. The point is made and I don't expect it to be a popular one. Collect coins and not plastic!
I hope you'll take the time to click on my Take the TPG poll! link and vote.
<< <i>I agree with Bruceswar, run on sentences and all. One need only read the posts on this forum to realize that most believe the plastic rules.
I hope you'll take the time to click on my Take the TPG poll! link and vote. >>
I already did.. You know how I feel!
<< <i>Just like anything in life, knowledge is power. It's up to you, the consumer, to decide how much, or how litlle, you want to learn. The more (less) knowledge you have, the less (more) likely you will be taken advantage of. JMHO. >>
I agree 100% The more you learn the better! Buy the coins and not the Plastic!
Slabs are not a substitute for knowledge, but it sure is nice to have a coin that is guaranteed to be authentic and to have an unbiased opinion of a ballpark grade. I would never have been comfortable buying the types of coins that I buy, especially when I was getting started, without them. The major TPGs and their services are not a panacea for the ills of the coin hobby. If you do not like certified coins, by all means, do not buy them, but please do not tell me how to collect coins.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>SLABS ARE THE WORST THING IN NUMASTICS TO COME OUT!!
Slabs are not a substitute for knowledge, but it sure is nice to have a coin that is guaranteed to be authentic and to have an unbiased opinion of a ballpark grade. I would never have been comfortable buying the types of coins that I buy, especially when I was getting started, without them. The major TPGs and their services are not a panacea for the ills of the coin hobby. If you do not like certified coins, by all means, do not buy them, but please do not tell me how to collect coins. >>
I am not telling anybody how to collect coins. You bring up a good point in Authentic coins and getting started buying coins, but knowledge like you said will rule the day.
<< <i>Why not buy those slabbed coins you like that you are in agreement with the grade? >>
I am not total anti-Slab! I do own a few slabs, but we as collectors need not give the TPG's so much power. Why should a coin be worth $5.00 out of a slab and $2500.00 in a slab, such as a modern coin can be sometimes. The coins I own in the slabs were not bought for the slab they are in, they were bought for thier own merits.
<< <i>Inside every slab is a raw coin. Crack-em out if you hate slabs. >>
I do crack out most of my coins. I do leave some coins in slabs which I have no space in my albums for. As long as your not paying a premium for the slab then no reason to worry.
<< <i>evidently you weren't around before slabs came along or you would know the reason for them. They may not be perfect but they are better than what we had. >>
So your telling me you like the era now over say the 60's?
<< <i>And by large part I don't but slabs. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>And by large part I don't but slabs. >>
Yes I know, I made a typo. Thanks for the point out.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And by large part I don't but slabs. >>
Yes I know, I made a typo. Thanks for the point out. >>
I did remember to add the
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And by large part I don't but slabs. >>
Yes I know, I made a typo. Thanks for the point out. >>
I did remember to add the
Yes I saw that.
Take care,
BOOM
What certification does is slow down the sale of counterfeit and severely altered coins (such as added mintmarks and fake gold coins).
The good far outweigh any bad you are able to come up with.
<< <i>Bruce, each of the problems you presented (cleaning... unsuspecting buyers/ bad sellers...overgraded coins... ) were rampant before slabs.
What certification does is slow down the sale of counterfeit and severely altered coins (such as added mintmarks and fake gold coins).
The good far outweigh any bad you are able to come up with. >>
This a very valid point, but when does the buyer become responsable for his or her own purchases? Knowledge is the key to collecting.
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst posts I've read on these boards in years. >>
So I take it you are a huge fan of the slab? Or Do you like the money slabbed coins bring vs raw coins? In this market such is the case for many coins.
<< <i>I agree slabs are not all they are cracked up to be
I am not saying the MS coins are bad. If you know how to properly grade them then you can buy them raw, slabbed, or even in an SGS slab. Buy the coin not the Slab!
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst posts I've read on these boards in years. >>
How so John. I've seen far worse. He's got strong feelings about something and had the guts to say it.
ifnewbiessticktothetoptpg'sthentheywon'tgofarwrong.however,likeanyotherbusiness,youaregoingtohavetobeawareofscamstersandjunkslabs.thereisstillnosubstituteforeducation.
tpg'shavealsoboostedthemarketabilityofcoinsforall.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i>
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst posts I've read on these boards in years. >>
How so John. I've seen far worse. He's got strong feelings about something and had the guts to say it.
I think quite a few people would have liked to say this, but just could not pony up to say it here.
<< <i>Ithinkyouhavemissedthepointoftpgslabbingofcoins.slabbedcoinshaveopenedupanentireworldofcollectingfornewbies.newbiescansafelypurchasecoinswithrelativeconfidencewhiletheyarelearningtograde.
ifnewbiessticktothetoptpg'sthentheywon'tgofarwrong.however,likeanyotherbusiness,youaregoingtohavetobeawareofscamstersandjunkslabs.thereisstillnosubstituteforeducation.
tpg'shavealsoboostedthemarketabilityofcoinsforall.
Cheers,
Bob >>
You speak a boatload.
Now, Bob, THAT is the ultimate run on sentence.
<< <i>
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst posts I've read on these boards in years. >>
So I take it you are a huge fan of the slab? Or Do you like the money slabbed coins bring vs raw coins? In this market such is the case for many coins. >>
As a collector who was active in the late 1960s and 1970s I am quite familiar with the world before slabs. I find your characterization of the 'good old days' when coins were bought and sold on merits to be laughable. I remember instead a marketplace so corrupted by cleaned, overgraded, altered and even counterfeit coins that many people simply gave up on coin collecting altogether.
If you long for these halcyon days then I enourage you to buy only raw coins, immediately crack out any slabs you have lying around the house and enjoy yourself.
As for your suggestion that people should read books, learn to grade and know what you buy is this new news to anyone?
I like collecting coins. It is one of my hobbies. Frankly, I am financially secure enough that I will probably never have to sell any of my coins because I need the money.
Now, with all due respect, I think I can grade pretty well but when it comes to the differences in MS grades I struggle. I just don't have the eye and/or patience to grade MS coins as well as I would like. In addition, I would not attempt to buy a raw MS coin because I also know that I have difficulty determining when the coin is actually AU. So what am I to do?
I rely on PCGS slabs. End of story. You may not like it, but that doesn't matter. I am willing to pay the price for a coin that has been authenticated and given a grade (right or wrong) and that is fine by me. That doesn't mean that I accept just any POS in a slab, but if I like what is in the slab, and not necessarily because I agree with the number on the slab, I buy it. It is as simple as that. I know that by buying a PCGS slab that I have some security as to authenticity and as to grade (again, whether you agree with the number or not).
Joe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst posts I've read on these boards in years. >>
So I take it you are a huge fan of the slab? Or Do you like the money slabbed coins bring vs raw coins? In this market such is the case for many coins. >>
As a collector who was active in the late 1960s and 1970s I am quite familiar with the world before slabs. I find your characterization of the 'good old days' when coins were bought and sold on merits to be laughable. I remember instead a marketplace so corrupted by cleaned, overgraded, altered and even counterfeit coins that many people simply gave up on coin collecting altogether.
If you long for these halcyon days then I enourage you to buy only raw coins, immediately crack out any slabs you have lying around the house and enjoy yourself.
As for your suggestion that people should read books, learn to grade and know what you buy is this new news to anyone? >>
This may not be new news to any of us posters here, but think of the thousands of collectors who do not post here. If I can buy a slabbed coin for the same price as a raw coin of the same grade(my opinion on both) then we will call it a good day and I can crack it out for my album. Yes the market was flooded with those coins, but has it changed from today? Counterfiets seem to be down by in large but the others you mention are still in full swing. On a side note I checked out your site and you have some very very nice coins for sale.
At least now when a person goes to sell there is FAR less argument about what a coin's grade is.
So, while their have been quite a few negatives associated with the advent of TPGs, and you covered them quite well, the benefit, in my honest opinion, outweighs the negatives.