Rare Coins as an Investment.....Part Deux
JapanJohn
Posts: 2,030 ✭
I'm investing in coins. Okay I've just started and don't have a lot. I estimate what I have to be worth about $13,000 or so. If I sold it all today I could probably break even or buy dinner.
However, I feel like I'm investing in my children. I've got my young daughter very interested in collecting and hopefully it will stick. If it helps keep her occupied and a good hobby keeps her focused and keeps her from making some bad choices in the future then I'd gladly write off every penney that went out of my bank account.
But that's not what we're talking about. I think in the long term MOST coins or sets or going to turn some kind of profit no matter how minimal. I'm certain there are exceptions to this.
I can't picture any person of a past generation assembling a collection and it being worth less than what they had into it. Even people from the last generation who stashed common circulating coins containing silver get a small premium. But I'm thinking long term here.
My coin investments will likely be passed to a child of mine. In that it will be a complete gift they'll realize the full potential and 100% profit.
For the most part I collect stuff I like but I didn't shell out the big bucks for a 95 W 10th anniversary set to NOT recoup the costs. It makes me smile everytime I see one broken out into a holder and placed on ebay. It means there is one less original set out there.
If I wake up one day and find out a segment of my collection is worth moon money then I have bad news for my kids!!!
Also i think that there is money to made in the coin world or people wouldn't be doing it. I also imagine it is VERY hard work, involving a lot of trouble and a lot of sales skills on both the buying and selling end of the spectrum. Skills which I don't possess. And I think probably the big money is in the buyng and selling and not so much in the "I'm holding this until I'm 70 then buying a house in Florida with the proceeds". Dangerous game.
I try to think through my buys and hopefully am picking up things that will at least break even in the future although hopefully with a mediocre return.
I'm still laughing all the way to the bank at all the people who told me I was the biggest idiot in the world for investing in Apple Stock. You roll the dice and you take your chances. But coins are just a fraction of my investment portfolio. Much of my investments are "safe" and it is intriguing to play around in a world where you can make a big score with one item that fits easily in your pocket.
John
However, I feel like I'm investing in my children. I've got my young daughter very interested in collecting and hopefully it will stick. If it helps keep her occupied and a good hobby keeps her focused and keeps her from making some bad choices in the future then I'd gladly write off every penney that went out of my bank account.
But that's not what we're talking about. I think in the long term MOST coins or sets or going to turn some kind of profit no matter how minimal. I'm certain there are exceptions to this.
I can't picture any person of a past generation assembling a collection and it being worth less than what they had into it. Even people from the last generation who stashed common circulating coins containing silver get a small premium. But I'm thinking long term here.
My coin investments will likely be passed to a child of mine. In that it will be a complete gift they'll realize the full potential and 100% profit.
For the most part I collect stuff I like but I didn't shell out the big bucks for a 95 W 10th anniversary set to NOT recoup the costs. It makes me smile everytime I see one broken out into a holder and placed on ebay. It means there is one less original set out there.
If I wake up one day and find out a segment of my collection is worth moon money then I have bad news for my kids!!!
Also i think that there is money to made in the coin world or people wouldn't be doing it. I also imagine it is VERY hard work, involving a lot of trouble and a lot of sales skills on both the buying and selling end of the spectrum. Skills which I don't possess. And I think probably the big money is in the buyng and selling and not so much in the "I'm holding this until I'm 70 then buying a house in Florida with the proceeds". Dangerous game.
I try to think through my buys and hopefully am picking up things that will at least break even in the future although hopefully with a mediocre return.
I'm still laughing all the way to the bank at all the people who told me I was the biggest idiot in the world for investing in Apple Stock. You roll the dice and you take your chances. But coins are just a fraction of my investment portfolio. Much of my investments are "safe" and it is intriguing to play around in a world where you can make a big score with one item that fits easily in your pocket.
John
0
Comments
<< <i>I'm investing in coins. Okay I've just started and don't have a lot. I estimate what I have to be worth about $13,000 or so. If I sold it all today I could probably break even or buy dinner.
However, I feel like I'm investing in my children. I've got my young daughter very interested in collecting and hopefully it will stick. If it helps keep her occupied and a good hobby keeps her focused and keeps her from making some bad choices in the future then I'd gladly write off every penney that went out of my bank account.
But that's not what we're talking about. I think in the long term MOST coins or sets or going to turn some kind of profit no matter how minimal. I'm certain there are exceptions to this.
I can't picture any person of a past generation assembling a collection and it being worth less than what they had into it. Even people from the last generation who stashed common circulating coins containing silver get a small premium. But I'm thinking long term here.
My coin investments will likely be passed to a child of mine. In that it will be a complete gift they'll realize the full potential and 100% profit.
For the most part I collect stuff I like but I didn't shell out the big bucks for a 95 W 10th anniversary set to NOT recoup the costs. It makes me smile everytime I see one broken out into a holder and placed on ebay. It means there is one less original set out there.
If I wake up one day and find out a segment of my collection is worth moon money then I have bad news for my kids!!!
Also i think that there is money to made in the coin world or people wouldn't be doing it. I also imagine it is VERY hard work, involving a lot of trouble and a lot of sales skills on both the buying and selling end of the spectrum. Skills which I don't possess. And I think probably the big money is in the buyng and selling and not so much in the "I'm holding this until I'm 70 then buying a house in Florida with the proceeds". Dangerous game.
I try to think through my buys and hopefully am picking up things that will at least break even in the future although hopefully with a mediocre return.
I'm still laughing all the way to the bank at all the people who told me I was the biggest idiot in the world for investing in Apple Stock. You roll the dice and you take your chances. But coins are just a fraction of my investment portfolio. Much of my investments are "safe" and it is intriguing to play around in a world where you can make a big score with one item that fits easily in your pocket.
John >>
Appreciate your sentiment John!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I can't picture any person of a past generation assembling a collection and it being worth less than what they had into it. >>
-You obviously have not been collecting long.
<< <i>am picking up things that will at least break even in the future although hopefully with a mediocre return. >>
-You've just described a losing investment.
Buy your kid a money market account or some stock certificates. He will thank you later.
My grandmother used to put Standing liberty quarters and Peace dollars into a coffee tin. I don't know where that stuff is now but I guess my mother and father have it.
Grandma's investment on an SLQ was 25 cents. And her investment on the Peace Dollar was a dollar. Grandma didn't possess any coin collecting skills but I bet those coins are worth a lot more now than then. And just imagine if there is a 16 or 17 SLQ in there.
Gotta run. Must call my mother and father.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>I started collecting in 1999...bought many sets already put together...for dirt cheap compared to todays prices....in those sets are many darlings...which are rare....and my investment has gone up many many times...I have no regreats what so ever...and in the mean time I have learned which coins to buy and which ones to leave alone...I have to say I have had a good experience with coins. >>
I seriously in 2000, and I too am in agreement with the above
PS - 90% of the stock market is a scam
Not sure that I agree with you that it is almost a guaranteed investment. It all depends on what you have put your money into.
You ventured that that standing liberty quarter is certainly worth more now, than when your grandmother tied up 25c to save it. Maybe yes, maybe no. The question is.... will that quarter PURCHASE more now.... than it would purchase when your grandmother put it away. If it purchases the same or less, or perhaps a just a little more.... then you LOST money.
Lest you think that I am not bullish on coins.... I really do believe that they can have a wonderful return. But it is anything but guaranteed. You must chose wisely. Good luck with it.
<< <i>I started collecting a little over one year ago ... and, if I sold all of my coins right now, I would net approximately 15% more than I paid for them. >>
I started collecting a little over four years ago and, if I sold my all my coins right now, I would net many, many times what I paid for them.
Russ, NCNE
I agree completely. It's far from guaranteed. If it were everyone would be doing it. Most of my money is in a 401K and another large chunck is in 9 month CD's right now. And I dabble in the stock market. Apple, Carmax, and Johnson and Johnson currently. All have done well recently.
The day the Israeli thing started up I dropped the 401K stuff into completely safe turf. Something about the potential start of WWIII makes me uneasy about going for the big score. Surprisingly things have been much the same but I don't trust the market right now with my retirement acount. I'm FAR from being a risk taker.
Coins are fun and have a POTENTIAL for making good money. They also have a potential to drag you into the soup line if you make bad choices. Too many people making money in the coin world though and sometimes I think they discourage people from investing is so that some good coins won't leave the market for long periods of time. The money gets made on the transactions and you can't transact if the good coins are sitting in a safe deposit box somewhere for 30 years.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
If you ever want a true reality / gut check, take your BEST coins and TRY to sell them at a national or regional show. You WILL be stunned.
As for the stock market, it's actually higher than when the spaghetti started to fly in the middle east 24 days ago.
<< <i>wow.... hope you all aren't disappointed in the future.
Not sure that I agree with you that it is almost a guaranteed investment. It all depends on what you have put your money into.
You ventured that that standing liberty quarter is certainly worth more now, than when your grandmother tied up 25c to save it. Maybe yes, maybe no. The question is.... will that quarter PURCHASE more now.... than it would purchase when your grandmother put it away. If it purchases the same or less, or perhaps a just a little more.... then you LOST money.
Lest you think that I am not bullish on coins.... I really do believe that they can have a wonderful return. But it is anything but guaranteed. You must chose wisely. Good luck with it. >>
Whoever said they are guaranteed?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Guys, there are so many misconception in this thread I have to interject.
If you ever want a true reality / gut check, take your BEST coins and TRY to sell them at a national or regional show. >>
You're right. There are quite a few misconceptions in this thread. Like, for example, the misconception that one should try to sell their coins to dealers at a show when they can get real market value in any number of other venues.
Russ, NCNE
a long term approach to coin collecting looks reasonable if not quite lucrative as long as the collector
has the right knowledge to make wise choices on what to buy and what not to buy.
to me, key-date coins seem like a slam dunk/no-brainer areas to invest in.
<< <i>provided we as a country can continue the status quo and not let the wheels fall off the wagon
a long term approach to coin collecting looks reasonable if not quite lucrative as long as the collector
has the right knowledge to make wise choices on what to buy and what not to buy.
to me, key-date coins seem like a slam dunk/no-brainer areas to invest in.
I kinda feel the same way.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
roadrunner
I meet many people who are looking to invest in coins and are interested in collecting because coins have value and they think they can uncover some of that value. I wish them the best and hope they do discover some hidden value.
My worry is that, for some unforseen reason, a large number of "collectors" will lose interest. I put collectors in quotes because I am not talking about people who totally love a particular series and study die pairs and so on. I'm talking about a number of people I talk with who are into coins because of the value and the ego factor of having something that others can't have.
If something happens that causes large numbers of people to sell then coins will no longer be a good investment. At that point others who are into it for the value or for building an estate for their grandkids will consider selling. It can create a negative feedback loop deepening a downward spiral.
If you love coins you will hope some disaster happens. If it does you will have years and years to search for truly rare coins at a lower price than today.
If you think the market can't go down think again. Many coins were more nominally more expensive in 1989 than today and even more expensive if you consider inflation.
Anyway I'm looking for a few relatively inexpensive coins to satisfy my interest. I am content that my total holding of coins is less than it was a few years ago.
<< <i>
I started collecting a little over four years ago!
Russ, NCNE >>
I knew it, a mere novice!! And he purports to be an eggspert!
<< <i>If you ever want a true reality / gut check, take your BEST coins and TRY to sell them at a national or regional show. You WILL be stunned. >>
I don't need to ... I get offers all of the time. Also, I have sold a dozen of my best coins recently as I upgraded to uber-morgans ($5k +) and have broken even or made money on each one. The key, as everyone here knows, is to buy great coins with great eye appeal. That is where investors may fail ... they tend to be less educated in numismatics and will buy the holder in spite of the coin ... I speak from experience as less than a year ago I was simply buying slabs. However, I hooked up with the right dealers and educated myself on these forums ... and now, I consider everything that I have purchased as of late to be pretty good investments.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I started collecting a little over four years ago!
Russ, NCNE >>
I knew it, a mere novice!! And he purports to be an eggspert! >>
...........Russ knows his chit!
I think that you have not tried to sell (m)any of your coins, or are far more adept at selling (or buying) than I.
I also think you are fooling yourself as to the quality of coins as an investment.
Respectfully...Mike
Now they are recovering in price, but in REAL terms - its a loss. Between 1979 and 2004 (dont have the price deflators for 2005 yet), the value of the dollar has gone down 61.6 % - In other words, if you bought a coin then for $100 - and sold it today for $100 - you would have lost 61.6% on your investment.
Inflation is picking up - and banks are paying 3.75 % or better. But the real reason to buy coins is not to sell them but to collect them right? I'm not saying dont use coins as an investment hedge, but dont expect it to keep up with inflation. If it does, great !! if not, buy coins you like!
By the way, if you are interested in the overall coin market , there is a link off the PCGS price page that is interesting: Coin Market Prices
Check out how the 20th Century US Coin market bottomed out in March of this year - contrast that with the Type Coin and Gold Coin indexes...
<< <i><<
I started collecting a little over four years ago!
Russ, NCNE >>
I knew it, a mere novice!! And he purports to be an eggspert! >>
I don't purport to be anything, dumbass. You're the one who follows me around in thread after thread with the same lame "eggspert" comment, dumbass. Have you always been a dumbass? Or did you become a dumbass later in life? Is the fact that you're a dumbass a genetic thing, or did you become a dumbass when the jocks in highschool played football with your dumbass head? Or maybe you became a dumbass because of oxygen deprivation from all the time you spent with your head stuffed in the toilet, dumbass.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I started collecting a little over one year ago ... and, if I sold all of my coins right now, I would net approximately 15% more than I paid for them. However, I plan on keeping them for the next 25 years ... unless I find that I want a bigger boat
PS - 90% of the stock market is a scam
Can you back that up by telling us who offered you 15% profit and point out what 90% of the stock market is a scam?
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
<< <i>But that's not what we're talking about. I think in the long term MOST coins or sets or going to turn some kind of profit no matter how minimal. I'm certain there are exceptions to this. >>
Sorry, I'm quite sure that MOST coins or sets that most people collect ARE NOT going to turn a profit.
Most people put together run of the mill sets of modern coins in the circulated grades or run of the mill Mint State grades like MS-63 and 64. Those people will only turn a profit if the price of the metal the coins contain goes up. Numismatic value will not do it.
People also collect a Proof set every year. I know I do it too. Most of those sets have their long term value set within the first year or two, sometimes within the first few months. After that the values are static or drift downward.
What has the best chance of showing a profit in regular issue U.S. coins? Really nice collector grade coins from the 1790s to the early 1900s are the best bet. By "collector grade" I mean pieces as low as "no problem" Fine condition for the early stuff to MS-63 to 65 for the later stuff. Better dates do better than "generic" common dates.
Very high grade coins can do well too, but you have know how to grade them and your timing needs to be near perfect. The slab grade on the outside might not be right, and the eye appeal has be great. Also paying very high speculative prices can quite often leave you in a learch.
All of this still goes back to a couple of fundamental points. You have know how to grade coins or get hooked up with an expert, honest dealer who is willing to work with you. And you have resist the need to follow the herd and buy into "fad coins." You also have to hold on to your investment for the long haul. Getting in and out of the market is one way make sure to lose money. This fundamental points are often second nature for true collectors. True collectors, aside from perfessional dealers, are often the only people who make from this hobby.
they are a collectible for someone who likes coins for fun and as a long term collecting endevor
if anything coins are a speculation short term for profit
and there aint nothing wrong with that
BUT COINS ARE DEFINATELY NOT AN INVESTMENT
a highly illliquid undercapitalized market that you should buy and collect long term as a hobby with discretionary money only
also what bill jones said directly above me
<< <i>I don't purport to be anything, dumbass. You're the one who follows me around in thread after thread with the same lame "eggspert" comment, dumbass. Have you always been a dumbass? Or did you become a dumbass later in life? Is the fact that you're a dumbass a genetic thing, or did you become a dumbass when the jocks in highschool played football with your dumbass head? Or maybe you became a dumbass because of oxygen deprivation from all the time you spent with your head stuffed in the toilet, dumbass.
Russ, NCNE >>
Umm..... so what you're saying is, mbt is a dumbass, and JapanJohn's grandma should've bought stock in Coca-cola?
Seriously though, I try to make purchases that have a chance at being valued in the future, so I can leave it to my kids who appreciate all the shiny things I collect. Same is true of other objects of value I have, even if they're just on paper. Someone will know what to do with them if I get hit by a bus.
Mind you, I buy coins, and hope they go up in value. But investing is the art of buying and SELLING at the right time. It seems a safe bet, having read a lot of posts here, that we mostly love our coins... meaning, there is emotion in the process. Emotion causes difficulties in investing. You ever not sell a stock at a 200% profit because you just so enjoy looking at the certificate?
To be a coin investor, you would need to not be a coin collector, in my opinion. You would research the market and buy based on sound principles, knowing where your planned sell point is. You would hold a diversified portfolio (not buy in your favorite collecting area).
I collect. I hope they go up, but I bought them because they are what I want.