Big Wads of Cash at Shows........

7over8

Is it just me, or do I see too many contractor "coats" and workboots mulling around shows looking for bullion, generic gold, very liquid numismatic items - with wads of cash in thier pockets.......apparently to hide it from the taxing authorities (obvious CASH businesses)??

I've noticed this trend over the last few years at the Parsippany show. It never was like that back in the 80's and early 90's when the show started out in Whippany.

Not that I am jealous or anything, but, I do pay more than my fair share of taxes - and above all love the hobby for what it is......a true collector, not a "Johnny come Lately" trying to make a fast buck and hiding money. This ruins the hobby.

Any thoughts?

xphobe

Doesn't bother me. The two circles barely intersect. The workboot crowd can buy up and hide all the bullion they want to, for all I care. They aren't going to be in the market for my flowing hair dollar.

7over8

I think there is harm being done to the hobby because these guys are in it for the "short term", just a place to hide money, one of the last bastions where it can be done, to me they are thieves and cost us all much more in the way of taxes, etc.

But back to the hobby, these people don't care about building sets, etc - and they are very annoying at the shows. We can do without them.

seateddime

I remember going to shows in the 80's where dealer cases were filled with cash too, stacks of hundreds

Leiana

I've seen people like that buying up circulated walkers for the silver.

-Amanda

7over8

I can just see my old 90 year old neighbor being charged $700 to clean her gutters and that guy showing up with the cash to buy KRUGERRANDS

Thats another reason why I cant stand those guys.

chabot510

One of the last times at the Parsippant show a man bought a coin off of me for around $900 I believe. He asked if I minded cash. When I answered, out came $900 in $5 bills. He was the owner of a vending machine company. But who is to say he did not report it as his income?

Russ

<< <i>but, I do pay more than my fair share of taxes >>



Why?

Russ, NCNE

7over8

Let's be realistic here, these guys dont report even 1/2 of thier real income. If you think that is not a true statement, time to take your head out of the sand.

BobaFett72

lol someones ranting tonight. money is money.
We all pay too much in taxes as it is.

Fletcher

<< <i>to me they are thieves and cost us all much more in the way of taxes, etc. >>



At least we are not jumping to conclusions or anything

WTCG

It doesn't matter with what media my customers pay me as long as it's redeemable at a bank for the agreed upon amount.

Carrying around large amounts of cash is not a definitive sign of tax cheating. There are plenty of reasons why people might carry around large amounts of cash. Showing off that you're "loaded" is one popular reason.

One time somebody paid me $800 in $2 bills. The wad of banknotes were a pain to carry around, but cash is cash.

7over8

I guess so, I admit it, rant rant rant

This is also why I turned these money hungry contractors away and finished my own basement. Otherwise, I just should have turned over bullion in payment......

Hmmm. Maybe that was a bad idea. Hello Mr. Contractor, how about these new error quarters here with the extra "whatever" for $250 per....don't worry it's there - only a true collector can see it .....it's a fantastic deal and a great place to put your wads of cash!

chabot510

if they have the cash already, why not use it to buy something that they may need the cash for. not all dealers are willing to accept checks from strangers. if you saw a man in a suit walk in w/ a billfold of benjamins, you wouldn't think much of it.

BobaFett72

lol. heres the real reason for the vitriol

screwed on some home repairs!

next time use cheap migrant labor, half the cost, and half the time.

TheRaven

I pay for everything I purchase at shows with cash, if I purchase a $5 Indian for $750 bucks with $20's am I trying to cheat something?

7over8

Hmmm. An example of anyone in your neighborhood that has a magnetic sign on the side of thier truck and a ladder up top. Loads of cash in thier pockets all the time, never report more than $20K per year on thier returns, drive a Mercedes, live in a $500K house, sure......you're right. They aren't cheating the tax man. They are just great "budgeters", and $20K a year goes a long way.

Did you ever wonder why the bankroll is in thier pocket!!!! They can't deposit it!!!!!!

Leiana

I think this thread is getting all too political.

-Amanda

DickyBetz

I was talking to a dealer at the Parsippany show, when at the table next to me a deal was going down. I couldnt help overhearing/seeing. The guy bought at least 10K worth of coins and paid in $20 bills. That was the most cash I have ever seen.

chabot510

are you preparing their taxes for them? get over it 7over8, not all contractors are cheats. i am sure many people cheat the tax system by not reporting all wages and such.

7over8

Raven,
There are many people who walk into shows and pay with cash. This doesnt mean that all of them are hiding money.

Believe me, look around the next time you are at a busy show. You will see these guys and the wads of cash. We aren't talking about a grand in 20's. We are talking about $3K to $5K looking for bullion and liquid numismatic items. You can tell by what they ask for and how they reply to a dealer asking them questions. Sometimes, they don't even know what they are buying.

I saw big bullion transactions for $8K plus....... from cash businesses.

alfalfa

Is this a joke post? Someone shows up at a coin show wearing boots and a work coat looking to buy bullion or "liquid numismatic items" with cash and you think they're trying to hide assets!? Get real!

I usually have several thousand dollars in cash on me at coin shows, dress casually, and pay taxes (though as little as possible thanks to my tax attorney). I've also been known to buy bullion on occasion, and I can assure you I'm not trying to hide assets.

RJ

TheRaven

The person might also be dressed like that, so as not to draw to much attention to himself.....

Dressing all fancy with alot of expensive items showing is saying come and rob me as I leave this show.....

7over8

Alflafa, this is very real. It happens here EVERY month. It is done in plain sight.

Enough from me, I've said my piece.

At least it was more exciting than a Buffalo post.

WTCG

<< <i>Alflafa, this is very real. It happens here EVERY month. It is done in plain sight.

Enough from me, I've said my piece.

At least it was more exciting than a Buffalo post. >>



If you have sufficient proof that these "contractors" are indeed cheating the IRS out of unreported income and taxes then instead of complaining about them here you should REPORT THEM TO THE AUTHORITIES with your evidence to support your claims. The government will pay rewards to persons who turns in tax cheats.

Do not make accusations unless you have substantial proof that these people are in fact really fleecing the government.

D

I always pay with cash...for everything...

-Daniel

BobaFett72

Daniel, you evil tax cheat!

ttxp

<< <i>these guys are in it for the "short term", just a place to hide money, >>


Actually, I would think a better and less speculative way to hide money would be in an envelope under the floor boards. Because someone carries a lot of cash is irrelevant at a coin show, no dealer in his right mind is going to accept a check for gold bullion from someone he doesn't know? Most dealers don't accept credit cards at shows? How else would one pay for their purchases? Workboots and workcoats is not indicative or tax evasion nor is the purchase of bullion indicative of hiding money.

7over8

Some of these big bullion purchases probably will dry up once the Patriot Act provisions are applied to bullion and bullion equivalent purchases. I understand purchaser names must be provided by dealers selling more than $50K in bullion per year. Dont know when this starts, I heard 2007.

I guess the workboots and contactor coats wont be seen much at the shows after 2007 arrives. Great, less crowded isles!!!

ormandh

I am a contractor and I carry lots of cash around, but I pay my taxes(I can't remember the last time that I got a check written out to cash). I ALWAYS carry cash when I buy coins. Often times you can get a better price by paying cash and besides not too many dealers like personal checks from people they do not know, especially for large amounts. Credit cards are an option, but I know that if the dealer does not have to pay the transaction fee, I will pay less for the coin, bullion, etc. Why does this bother you anyway? It sounds like you need to spend more time on your hobby and less time being paranoid about people with more money in their pockets than you. -Dan

ibzman350

<< <i>I think this thread is getting all too political.

-Amanda >>




I think I'd like have some of whatever 7over 8 is smoking.


I carry big cash to shows, so I'm a tax cheat................wait a minute, wait a minute........

I usually wear flip flops or tennis shoes, I can't be a tax cheat.


and to keep it coin related, here is one








Herb

7over8

Here come all the contractors, defending thier right to have cash in thier pockets!!! Yadda Yadda Yadda.

This is not about all the law abiding, tax paying citizens of this great land - it's about the tax cheats who use our hobby as a conduit to stash loads of cash that cant be deposited in thier own accounts. (And by the way, contractors generally cash checks at the CUSTOMERS bank, not deposit them into thiers----why is that???? Not convenience. Maybe not to leave a trail?)

I also buy everything with cash, I also pay my taxes. All of you are correct, did you ever try to buy coins with a credit card, or a check at a show? Forget it, not going to happen.

This is not about the average Joe. This is about the LARGE transactions. The $3-$5K bullion purchases and bigger.

Connecticoin

What these contractors under-report for income is probably chicken feed compared to what organized crime fails to report. Of course, some of these contractors might be connected to organized crime.

Fletcher

<< <i>What these contractors under-report for income is probably chicken feed compared to what organized crime fails to report. Of course, many of these contractors might be connected to organized crime. >>



Lol ... you guys crack me up. You should move out here and write screenplays

dthigpen

7over8,

In your honor, I'm going to go into the next show around here, bring $9k in cash, buy $9k worth of Bullion, and not report the purchase to the IRS.

alfalfa

You must have a really active imagination!

I hope you're not a cop as your profiling skills are poor. 3-5 thousand dollar cash transactions are far from suspicious in today's market, and your other pieces of evidence (dress and purchases) could hardly be considered proof of being a "tax cheat." Got something against contractors?

RJ

Tarmac

I can think of about 100 reasons people pay with cash and none have to do with anything illegal.

-How many of us married guys want the wife to discover how much we really spent on coins at the last national show? I know a guy who saves a little bit of his 'allowance' every week to buy coins his wife has no clue about. Is that so bad?

-How many times have you sold a few coins at a show and were paid in cash? Cash which you used to buy a few bullion coins.

-People sometimes are buying for friends who could not attend a show. Ever see people buying hundreds of dollars of lotto tix on big jackpot days? Are they too dishonest or participating in an office pool?

-This may be hard to believe but ther are alot of people who have no credit. They could be deadbeats or just have finished with a nasty divorce. They have no choice but payment in cash.

-There are people who just do not trust banks. Yes in this day and age of ATMs, debit cards, etc. I have a coworker who has no ATM, debit or credit cards. Strange but probably more common than many realize.

I would not jump to conclusions based on appearance. The gov't usually catches up to those who abuse the system. If you are worried about your tax dollars maybe write to your elected officials about the billions we throw away on foreign aid.

notwilight

I haven't been to coin shows but I always take cash out of my bank account and take it to any place where I plan to be haggling over the price since cash is usually likely to get you the best price. I never take my checkbook. Jerry

BlindedByEgo

I'm not a contractor.

I like carrying lots of cash.

My CPA makes sure that I pay every tax penny that I must.

Sounds like envy...

karpman9

Cash is still KING.

I like to purchase with cash when possible. Sometimes I get a better deal. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I miss the cash as it leaves my hand, like saying goodbye to an old friend, and sometimes, it does hurt to say goodbye. Sometimes when I pay with cash I get a more realistic impression of the true expense of the coin vs. paying with a c/c or a check.

That's just my 200,000 cents worth of input on the topic.

Best regards,

Elcontador

OP - If you think the only people in numismatics who don't declare all of their income are these so called contractors who buy bullion, you are in for a very unpleasant surprise.

karpman9

ps: The tellers at my bank have at times given me strange accusatory looks when I withdraw a few thousand in cash or conversely, deposit a few thousand. It can become very uncomfortable at times, especially with a new or unfamiliar teller.

I think one teller a while back actually filled out a SAR (suspicious activity report) on me and sent it to the Feds. That was really uncomfortable! I was pissed.

Best regards,

ms70

So what's the big deal with cash? I probably dress like a construction worker & will pay with a wad of cash. Writing a check is a hassle
and I'm not so sure I wish to share my personal info with some of the people I buy coins from. My taxes are deducted from my paycheck
before I can even get the cash.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

in my opinion it is a good way to turn money into a way to make more money.. but if the gold markets drops those people are in trouble

Michigan

I had someone cut down a couple of dead trees on my property years ago, the price was $400 cash only.

Did they want cash only to avoid taxes? Probably. Am I guilty of anything? No. Taxes are their responsibility
not mine.

Longacre

I don't think you can infer that someone with a lot of cash on hand does not properly report his income.

artimus

7over8......it is clear that you dont have a problem with people paying in cash.....you said you do the same......the problem seems to be the amounts...( presumably these guys have more cash than you)....and the 'types'....( working class).....that carry these amounts of cash......sorry..but you are coming across as a snob who feels that working class guys...like myself..... dont deserve to be able to carry more cash than you.....lol.....i own my own business and i usually carry a lot of cash......i also pay several people who work for me......i pay plenty of taxes.....and contribute much to my local economy........it is ok to be jealous of people you consider beneath you.......i understand..... i make more than most people considered to be socio-economically better off than i am......not everyone has to wear a suit and tie to be financially successful....please dont try to mask your petty jealousies with concerns over tax issues.......that 'concern' is a thin veil......anyway....have a nice day....

PerryHall

I have no doubts that many large cash transactions are to avoid an audit trail and to avoid taxes. Ever hear of the "underground economy" or is that just a myth?

13PacesEast

i do it all the time.

why? because it makes me money and i don't have to share it with my greedy uncle.

don't be jealous.

hate the game, not the player.

hootchiegirl

sure sounds like ya'll got a grudge againts a working man what is wrong with weraing work boots and work clothes and having money...should every one work at wal-mart and be broke???? theres boys that sit at computers and work and MEN that get dirty and do the stuff ohters don't want too. are you going up the 30 foot ladder to fix your cruddy gutters or are ya payin a tough guy to do it. sounds like a lot of jealousy over anyone with more money

zenny

<< <i> This is about the LARGE transactions. The $3-$5K bullion purchases and bigger. >>





oooh, three thousand dollars, LARGE, baby, LARGE!



i believe this enormous parcel of precious gold metal would weigh less than half of a "royale" with cheese and small fries......



now go finish your basement already!