Southern Mint Gold

Cladiator

Are the gold coins from Charlotte and Dahlonega (sp? on both) really as rare in mintage figures as their incredible prices would indicate? Are there any other factors involved with the very high C and D prices? Even the New Orleans coins of the same denomination and era don't, for the most part, carry as heavy a premium as the C and D coins.

Leiana

I think it's a mix of the romanticism involved in owning a coin from a mint that most people haven't heard of and the fact that they existed for only 24 years. Also, the mintages were fairly low and the Dahlonega coins at least have a very low survival rate. Plus, I think a significant portion of these coins were sent overseas during the war to pay for arms for the Confederacy, I could be wrong though.

-Amanda

123cents

<< <i>I think it's a mix of the romanticism involved in owning a coin from a mint that most people haven't heard of and the fact that they existed for only 24 years. Also, the mintages were fairly low and the Dahlonega coins at least have a very low survival rate. Plus, I think a significant portion of these coins were sent overseas during the war to pay for arms for the Confederacy, I could be wrong though.

-Amanda >>

I think Amanda is right on.

RYK

I think that Amanda is generally correct though I have not before heard about the coins being sent abroad to pay for Confederate arms. There is no question that the relationship of these obscure mints to life in the antebellum South and leading up to the beginning of the Civil War is part of the charm in collecting these coins.

There were approximately 1 million Dahlonega coins struck, and there are approximately 10,000 survivors (1%) across all denominations and dates. The Charlotte numbers are similar. This is an area that has been actively collected for many generations of collectors, and I do not see any reason why this will not continue in the future. As for New Orleans gold, despite that many of these issues are far more scarce than their C and D counterparts, have been less expensive in the past, and I do not see any reason why this will not continue in the future.

I enjoy collecting coins from all of three of these mints and have enjoyed meeting and getting to know fellow southern gold collectors and specialty dealers.

Cladiator

The New Orleans coins seem to be an incredible deal, when compared to the only other two southern mints. I suppose the fact that the New Orleans mint was in operation longer and that it produced silver as well as gold coins could take away from it's appeal and may explain the lower prices.

Leiana

Found it!



<< <i>Although the Southern Mints struck millions of coins after secession, primarily half dollars, very few were actually put into circulation. Instead, the May 14, 1861 Act closing the Confederate mints ordered that all coins and bullion be delivered to the Confederate Secretary of the Treasury. [Memminger]

Most of this money was sent to Europe to pay for desperately needed war material. The uncertain political climate coupled with the rapid devaluation of Confederate treasury notes and bonds led many European creditors to require payment in coins or bullion.

By the end of September 1861, the Confederacy had shipped $1,400,000 to Great Britain, and during the next six months another $1,261,00 was sent to Europe. By June of 1863, the Confederate Government was forwarding approximately $75,000 a week to England.

Although the bulk of the Confederacy's bullion and coins went east to Europe, a lesser amount went west to suppourt the Confederate cause in the Indian Territory in what is now the state of Oklahoma.

In February 1862, Confederate Brigadier General Albert Pike arrived in the Indian Territory, bringing with him $681,000 from the Confederate Treasury. While the majority of these funds were in the Confederate Treasury notes, a significant amount of hard money was also included. Of this amount, $10,000 in gold was used to purchase ammunition in Texas.

General Pike served not only as the Commander of Confederate troops in the Indian Territory, but also as Confederate Comissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes. In his capacity as Indian Commisioner, General Pike delivered payments in coins to the Indian tribes in fufillment of treaty obligations, including about $7,000 to the Seminoles. This demonstration of good faith did much to persuade a large segment of the Indian population to suppourt the Confederate cause. >>



Geez that took a while to type. Quoted directly from "The Untold Story of Confederate Coins" By Ron and Elizabeth Howard.

-Amanda

TheRaven

The fact that New Orleans and Carson City struck silver coins is a reason why they are different then Charlotte and Dahlonega, but New Orleans is not Carson City coins either for obvious reasons.....

New Orleans is a step child of mints, a very interesting one I also believe that might warrent more study and purchases.....

Longacre

There was a mint in New Orleans?

RYK

Amanda,

I have read your post. I wonder how many coins D, C, and O-minted coins actually made it to Europe during the Civil War, and I am very dubious that they were in as high a quantity as your resource suggests. It is well-established that later date NO eagles were sent to Europe, and they continue to turn up and get returned to the US. There are also rumors of a stash of 1861-O $20's in Great Britain from the Civil War era, but I have never heard of a C or D mint coin being discovered in Europe and making it back to the US (though I am sure this has happenned, too.) Also, very few gold coins were struck by the C and D mints in 1861 (and the later years of the mint), and certainly not the quantity suggested in the paragraphs above. Quarter and half eagles were never popular or efficient for international trade; larger denominations were typically used (eagles and double eagles)>

Do the authors offer any proven examples of C and D coins specifically being sent to Europe and the fate of these coins once in Europe?

Leiana

Hi RYK.

The book does not mention any particulars about the money sent to Europe, nor how much was bullion or coins. They don't mention where the coins came from, either, so possibly they were requisitioned from wealthy citizens. It doesn't mention anything about their fate in Europe either. The more I read this book, and the more I read posts here, the more I think it is sold chiefly for tourists.

-Amanda

DaveG

It is certainly true that the southern mints struck "millions" of coins after secession, but, of course, about 2.2 million of those coins were half dollars minted in New Orleans. I haven't looked at a Red Book recently, but I'd suspect that half dollars accounted for about 99% of the southern coins minted in 1861. (Click the link below and read my article on the history of the New Orleans mint for details of the coins struck in 1861.)

While I'm sure that the Confederacy would have been able to send large amounts of specie to England in 1861, I think the Union blockade was sufficiently effective by 1863 that I doubt that they were able to send anything approaching $75,000 a week.

Cladiator,

C- and D-mint coins have a special place in the hearts of their collectors. I believe they command a higher premium than O-mint coins because they only minted gold and only operated for a short time.

FatMan

The only coinage from Dahlonega ever delivered to C.S.A. Treasury was $4937 which was sent as ordered upon the closing of the mint. This was both gold and silver coinage and there is no record of how much or each. Nor is there any record of how much was minted in Dahlonega. The coinage would have consisted of freshly minted D-mint gold for paying on deposits as well as operating funds for expenses, payroll, etc. which may have been been minted anywhere. On June 8, Mint Superintendent George Kellogg had all bullion, sweeps, and coinage in inventory sent to Benjamin Pressley, the C.S.A Assistent in Charleston. The value of the shipment was $23,716.06. The facility only operated as an assy office after the shipment.

TheRaven

Nothing is as frustrating as trying to find a Charlotte or Dahlonega coin on a budget I have found out.....