A tale of a "Wannabe"! A couple of thoughts.
chabot510
Posts: 1,291 ✭
As many of you know, I have been dealing coins for about a year now. I thought it would be fun to just show you all a little glimpse of my thoughts on the whole experience thus far.
When I first started off, I mainly attended smaller shows with coins that I had acquired as a collector. The whole experience was genuinely fun selling coins that I enjoyed for profits. Also, the coins that you get to see while looking to buy are just as enjoyable.
As time moved on, my inventory grew and became a little more high end after each show. After a while I was no longer dealing with common date Morgans and began focusing on better date type. I really enjoyed this aspect, because there is simply no comparison owning a gem 20c piece with wild toning versus 10 MS 66 white morgans.
Here are a few thoughts that I have come across since joining the dealer ranks:
1. There are a lot of weird dealers out there! When you go to coin show after coin show, you begin to see some bizzare looking dealers. Some appear as if they have rolled in off of the streets to sell what they have collected the day before. What exactly happened to proffesionalim in this hobby? I remember looking at a picture of QDB when he first started dressed in a suit! What happened to those days? Even at the larger national shows, few dealers where ties. If you were buying jewelry, would you buy from the guy in the holey t-shirt, or the man dressed in the suit?
2. Collectors are down right rude at times. While dealing I have met a tremendous amount of nice collectors out there. However, there are some that you just wonder about. When questioned why my circulated better date Barber halves were not at greysheet or better, one collector called me an a## hole for ripping people off! I got this fairly frequently too!
3. Dealer hours are awful. There is nothing worse than having to wake up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday, only to have to drive an hour + away to set up at a show! It is even worse being a college student and doing this! A lot of weekends are sacrificed in order to be able to make the trek to certain shows. The whole thing really gets to you after a while.
4. The travel is awful! Dealers who do not have store fronts a pretty much forced to attend local shows to conduct business. Most of the times the shows are fairly far away (at least in my case) and make the experience unpleasant at times.
5. As a collector turned wannabe, one of my biggest pittfalls is purchasing too many coins at high prices! Although most of the coins I have bought are very attractive and at the right price, they are at the wrong dealer price. When buying you must always think if you can turn that coin around and get more for it. It is tough though when you see gorgeous coins that are priced right for a collector (however not for a dealer).
These are just a few thoughts that I had at the top of my mind. I have enjoyed dealing so far, however, I really miss collecting.
Collecting is special, especially so if you are not worried about returns. With collecting, you can explore all of numismatics without much thought. You do not have to sit around and figure out if the coin in question is 10% to cheap. Collecting is one thing I truly miss since becoming a dealer.
When I first started off, I mainly attended smaller shows with coins that I had acquired as a collector. The whole experience was genuinely fun selling coins that I enjoyed for profits. Also, the coins that you get to see while looking to buy are just as enjoyable.
As time moved on, my inventory grew and became a little more high end after each show. After a while I was no longer dealing with common date Morgans and began focusing on better date type. I really enjoyed this aspect, because there is simply no comparison owning a gem 20c piece with wild toning versus 10 MS 66 white morgans.
Here are a few thoughts that I have come across since joining the dealer ranks:
1. There are a lot of weird dealers out there! When you go to coin show after coin show, you begin to see some bizzare looking dealers. Some appear as if they have rolled in off of the streets to sell what they have collected the day before. What exactly happened to proffesionalim in this hobby? I remember looking at a picture of QDB when he first started dressed in a suit! What happened to those days? Even at the larger national shows, few dealers where ties. If you were buying jewelry, would you buy from the guy in the holey t-shirt, or the man dressed in the suit?
2. Collectors are down right rude at times. While dealing I have met a tremendous amount of nice collectors out there. However, there are some that you just wonder about. When questioned why my circulated better date Barber halves were not at greysheet or better, one collector called me an a## hole for ripping people off! I got this fairly frequently too!
3. Dealer hours are awful. There is nothing worse than having to wake up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday, only to have to drive an hour + away to set up at a show! It is even worse being a college student and doing this! A lot of weekends are sacrificed in order to be able to make the trek to certain shows. The whole thing really gets to you after a while.
4. The travel is awful! Dealers who do not have store fronts a pretty much forced to attend local shows to conduct business. Most of the times the shows are fairly far away (at least in my case) and make the experience unpleasant at times.
5. As a collector turned wannabe, one of my biggest pittfalls is purchasing too many coins at high prices! Although most of the coins I have bought are very attractive and at the right price, they are at the wrong dealer price. When buying you must always think if you can turn that coin around and get more for it. It is tough though when you see gorgeous coins that are priced right for a collector (however not for a dealer).
These are just a few thoughts that I had at the top of my mind. I have enjoyed dealing so far, however, I really miss collecting.
Collecting is special, especially so if you are not worried about returns. With collecting, you can explore all of numismatics without much thought. You do not have to sit around and figure out if the coin in question is 10% to cheap. Collecting is one thing I truly miss since becoming a dealer.
Nick
0
Comments
<< <i>When buying you must always think if you can turn that coin around and get more for it. >>
Words to live by.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>When buying you must always think if you can turn that coin around and get more for it. >>
Words to live by.
Russ, NCNE >>
as a dealer so much more so. as a dealer you want a quick turnaround. being a collector you may want to sit on the coin for a few years.
Suit and tie do not equal professionalism. Most of the world is more casual than it used to be (one big exception would be the legal
profession). I don't care much how people dress at a coin show. Years ago a coin dealer started a coin show where everyone
would dress in a suit and tie to present a more professional image., that ended when the guy was charged with fraud by the FTC and he is no longer in business. I thought that was rather ironic.
<< <i>being a collector you may want to sit on the coin for a few years. >>
Not me. Even if it's a coin I'm keeping for my own stash, my first thought before I buy is "Can I sell this for more?"
Russ, NCNE
More often than not, the better dresser charges higher prices.
Suits especially. And you don't see suits all that much anymore in coins and in the work place in general.
Dealers walking the floor in my opinion need to keep things as low key as possible. An easy target for a thief is a lone dealer walking the floor. Suits and a nice Rolex don't help much. To me, jeans, sneakers or what have you keeps the profile lower. Crooks can't tell the dealers from the collectors. One may be carrying $150k and the other $150. And you can't tell them apart. Even behind the table, being a bit low key is not a bad idea.
Buying right is the toughest thing. And ironically, the freshest deals in many cases go right to the people who aren't paying all that strong to begin with. But if they have clever advertising, that can work for them.
roadrunner
Actually, I did exactly this as a college student and absolutely loved it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Dave still wears a suit.
I must add, however, that if I had a working knowledge of Photoshop you would now be looking at a very funny picture of QDB.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
And don't forget the paperwork, and all those income and sales taxes, county taxes, stadium taxes, etc. to keep track of
Russ - In many series, that attitude could cost you some great opportunities. Maybe not in moderns, though.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Who said you had to stop collecting when you became a dealer?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Not me. Even if it's a coin I'm keeping for my own stash, my first thought before I buy is "Can I sell this for more?"
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ you have..... NO Soul............!!!!!!!!
Profit making is great, but you can be a dealer and a collector at the same time. There is nothing wrong with demanding a higher price for certain coins that you are partial to.
1. Many dealers are weird and their hygiene manners are questionable at best. At a coin shop yesterday I witnessed somebody who was eating Chinese takeout with his BARE HANDS with one hand while handling raw coins with a combination of both hands. Although I don't believe that formal dress is required to appear professional, I believe that a pleasant, clean appearance is essential. There are many dealers who disregard this belief, but it's their loss. Q. David Bowers does not always wear a suit at a coin show, and many of the well regarded dealers do not dress up while they're at a show unless it's required as it is on PNG day, etc. I mean, have you ever seen Mark Feld wearing anything but shorts at a coin show?
2. "The customer is always right" is wishful thinking. There are many people who aren't worth your energy to talk to.
3. Being a dealer isn't as relaxed as most people think. When I'm on the road at a coin show I typically wake up two hours earlier than I usually would when I'm at home. On the flip side, I accomplish more business out of the office than I would at many of the smaller shows. I find that attending coin shows is preferrential for finding new material to purchase.
4. A packed travel schedule brutal. Last year I flew nearly 200,000 miles to attend about 40 different coin shows. There are some months when I'm home for less than 8 days. Travelling has its rewards, though, since more variety of shows will expose you to more coins to purchase.
5. Paying too much or too little is subjective. If you feel whatever you paid is worthy of the coin, then you did not pay too much. Quality coins sell for quality prices, and ugly coins sell for ugly prices.
Again, you can be a dealer and a collector at the same time. It just takes some discipline.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>1. There are a lot of weird dealers out there! When you go to coin show after coin show, you begin to see some bizzare looking dealers. Some appear as if they have rolled in off of the streets to sell what they have collected the day before. What exactly happened to proffesionalim in this hobby? I remember looking at a picture of QDB when he first started dressed in a suit! What happened to those days? Even at the larger national shows, few dealers where ties. If you were buying jewelry, would you buy from the guy in the holey t-shirt, or the man dressed in the suit?
More often than not, the better dresser charges higher prices.
Suits especially. And you don't see suits all that much anymore in coins and in the work place in general.
Dealers walking the floor in my opinion need to keep things as low key as possible. An easy target for a thief is a lone dealer walking the floor. Suits and a nice Rolex don't help much. To me, jeans, sneakers or what have you keeps the profile lower. Crooks can't tell the dealers from the collectors. One may be carrying $150k and the other $150. And you can't tell them apart. Even behind the table, being a bit low key is not a bad idea.
Buying right is the toughest thing. And ironically, the freshest deals in many cases go right to the people who aren't paying all that strong to begin with. But if they have clever advertising, that can work for them.
roadrunner >>
Brian,
I agree with you about the security issue. I am not sayign that all dealers should be dressed up in Armani suits. It is simply a gripe at the dealers that show up in ratty t-shirts and display poor hygiene.
<< <i>Interesting post, Nick. Your not quiting are you? I always like chatting with you at the Parsippany show.
Greg,
I am not quitting, just simply refocusing my efforts. I will be at Parsippany in the future.
<< <i>Collecting is one thing I truly miss since becoming a dealer.
Who said you had to stop collecting when you became a dealer? >>
My problem is not having enough money to do both. I would love to hold onto some coins and continue dealing, however, I will have no inventory!
Try collecting something inexpensive. And remember my #1 rule for collecting: If the money spends too easy, rethink your plan!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I would dare say that the people involved in coin collectiong are no more or less rude, eccentric, un-hygienic or poorly dressed than any cross section of America in any endeavour in 2006. I personally do not long for the days when every man in attendance at a 1954 Milwaukee Braves game had a suit and tie on (don't forget the fedora!), but if thats how you feel, I encourage you call Brooks Brothers right away.
Awful hours? I'd suggest that the average working person would trade their daily schedule and commute for that of a coin dealer anytime. A-N-Y-T-I-M-E.
And traveling to coins shows is akin to any occupation requiring travel (trust me, I know), except that when you arrive at your destination you are at a coin show, instead of a meeting to discuss gross margins or next year's Operating Plan. Try that for a few years and you may have a different opinion.
<< <i>Even if it's a coin I'm keeping for my own stash, my first thought before I buy is "Can I sell this for more?"
Russ - In many series, that attitude could cost you some great opportunities. Maybe not in moderns, though. >>
I didn't say that stops me from buying a coin I want; only that it's my first thought. I've purchased coins for my own stash at significantly higher than market value. In some cases multiples of market value.
(Luckily, though, most of those later upgraded and are now worth significantly more than I paid.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>being a collector you may want to sit on the coin for a few years. >>
Not me. Even if it's a coin I'm keeping for my own stash, my first thought before I buy is "Can I sell this for more?" >>
Or at the very least break even if the coin gets boring.
Ken
"Can I sell this for more?" Gee Russ, I thought you bought and sold for enjoyment.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I don't like to deal with slobs, but if a guy is wearing a nice shirt and slacks, or even shorts here in Florida where it gets to 90 degress with 90% humidity everyday, that's fine with me.
I get the hint. Next time I'm at your table I'll make sure I'm not flossing while looking at your coins
And I'll have to work on getting an Armani suit for the ANA.
roadrunner
<< <i>My problem is not having enough money to do both. I would love to hold onto some coins and continue dealing, however, I will have no inventory!
Try collecting something inexpensive. And remember my #1 rule for collecting: If the money spends too easy, rethink your plan! >>
it is tough after having really nice stuff in inventory.
<< <i>
I would dare say that the people involved in coin collectiong are no more or less rude, eccentric, un-hygienic or poorly dressed than any cross section of America in any endeavour in 2006. >>
I disagree. Most of the professional conferences and trade shows that I have attended in the past 25 years have been business casual or greater, at least if you wanted to carry any credibility at all. I have also found many (but by no means the majority) coin sellers to be lacking basic social graces (to put it mildly). I have been in many industries in my life and have found that the coin business is singular in allowing this behaviour to stand, even be rewarded.
<< <i>Awful hours? I'd suggest that the average working person would trade their daily schedule and commute for that of a coin dealer anytime. A-N-Y-T-I-M-E.
And traveling to coins shows is akin to any occupation requiring travel (trust me, I know), except that when you arrive at your destination you are at a coin show, instead of a meeting to discuss gross margins or next year's Operating Plan. Try that for a few years and you may have a different opinion. >>
I agree, wholeheartedly. But even if you love candy, or guns, going to work at a candy or a gun show can still be hard work. You just have to ask yourself: hard relative to what? Heck, you could be out digging ditches!
Good luck and good selling!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Brian, I'm impressed. I didn't think any coin dealers flossed.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Next time I'm at your table I'll make sure I'm not flossing while looking at your coins
Brian, I'm impressed. I didn't think any coin dealers flossed. >>
Depending on what show you are at, it certainly seems that way.
<< <i>business casual or greater >>
Business casual for me is 501's that don't have any holes in them.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Dealer hours are awful. There is nothing worse than having to wake up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday, only to have to drive an hour + away to set up at a show! It is even worse being a college student and doing this!
Actually, I did exactly this as a college student and absolutely loved it. >>
Not many girlfriends, eh Andy?
Great post Nick. I think you will be able to relate your findings to all your business endeavors.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>Dealer hours are awful. There is nothing worse than having to wake up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday, only to have to drive an hour + away to set up at a show! It is even worse being a college student and doing this!
Actually, I did exactly this as a college student and absolutely loved it. >>
Not many girlfriends, eh Andy?
Great post Nick. I think you will be able to relate your findings to all your business endeavors. >>
It actually sounds like what my job was like in the late 1970s working sales/marketing for a major electronics firm. Lots of travel, uncomfortable beds, lousy foods, hours waiting for planes/trains, etc. But as everyone knows, it's the rainmakers not the beancounters who usually end up at the top of the ladder. At least in my industry.
Bottomline, legitimate money making endevours usually involve work and the negatives associated with it.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>Dealer hours are awful. There is nothing worse than having to wake up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday, only to have to drive an hour + away to set up at a show! It is even worse being a college student and doing this!
Actually, I did exactly this as a college student and absolutely loved it. >>
Not many girlfriends, eh Andy?
Great post Nick. I think you will be able to relate your findings to all your business endeavors. >>
Cohodk :1
Andy: zero
I was sorta thinkin that too
Nick, you stepped out of the WANNABE role when other dealers called you what they are :
A^*Hole RIP OFF
<< <i>
Nick, you stepped out of the WANNABE role when other dealers called you what they are :
A^*Hole RIP OFF
lol
I would add from a collectors view that it is not how you dress but how you behave that characterizes the dealer for me.
Say what you want but read the posts on this forum and you can be easily convinced that there are a number of marginal ( you define it)people peddeling coins. There are also some terrific coin dealers. I have not interacted with him but I suspect from this post that Nick may or will belong in the latter category.
<< <i>
<< <i>being a collector you may want to sit on the coin for a few years. >>
Not me. Even if it's a coin I'm keeping for my own stash, my first thought before I buy is "Can I sell this for more?"
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree,collecting is never the same when you start "dealing"...