Most of us think that the collection patterns of the past will continue indefinitely. In the 1800s very few collected by mintmark. Date collecting was the rage and things like mintmarks were considered in many cases trivial. In the 1900s collecting by date and mintmark took front stage and the pricing and collecting structures that we see today still reflect this to a large extent.
Let me ask you a question? Why did the mint have a policy for about 180 years of keeping design changes to a bare minimum? Well there were many considerations like cost and uniformity but the biggest one was the desire to discourage hoarding (otherwise known as holding large numbers of coins for collector reasons). People like design variety by nature and when it is available it tends to promote greater collector interest. Europe is a prime example, they have an almost endless number of designs to pull from over thousands of years and collecting by design is THE MARKET STRUCTURE the way date and minta mark collecting have been for us. This is changing now in the US markets but many are unwilling to see it. Total market capitalization for type coins (both new and old) is growing much faster than the market in general.
The US mint's impact on the US collector base's habits long term cannot be over stated. They know that growth in collector interest is directly linked to design based variety and they are stacking it one with impressive persistence and making a ton of money while they are at it. What we are witnessing is likely the start of the type coin series collecting era.
The kings will be in my view coins that have very low mintages and a design was only struck for one year. Look to the 50 states quarters structure and then think mintages less than 6,000 and you will be close. In the years 2020 if the current heard of kids that started out looking for different reverses on quarters lead the day this is what they more than likely will be dreaming about.
My picks that have been struck thus far:
2004 Proof Platinum Eagles 2005 Proof Platinum Eagles $5 MS Jackie Robinson Gold And any other 5,000 or less mintage one year type coin that has or does to the market. This would include many of the coins already mentioned.
<< <i>What post-1965 coin is sought after by many collectors of modern US coins, rare but obtainable, expensive but not out of the reach of many collectors, has a great story or history behind it, and recognized by coin collectors across the boards as an important coin? Probably the only thing this coin can relate to above is; not out of the reach of many collectors' But this might be untrue since I haven't seen another this nice. Not that others exist, I would like seeing another that's just as nice!
Do you consider High Relief Saints to be rare? According to many who have spent a great deal of their life studying the Saints about 6,000 of them have survived in MS-60 or better grade. They are one of if not the King type coin of the $20 golds. There are less $50 04 or 05 proof plats struck. In general in the last 100 years the top twenty rarest type coins by design and denomination had mintages of less than 10,000 and most of them have survived.
Many of these moderns are in fact 100 year type rarities.
Rare 31-71 known. Is that total existing series population or date and mint mark rarity? And what is the total collector base? I have European coins with mintages in that rage but they are not type coins and they are in a large series population so they have very little value and no body wants them.
Rarity is based on how you define it and how many want them..........................
Rarity is based on how you define it and how many want them..........................
i doubt any would argue with the basic Sheldon scale numbers i posted for any coin accepted as R-5, rare. the nature of your reply is the reason for my question to RYK; to wit, for the purpose of this thread, what does he consider rare to be??
There will prove to be other unique and very rare moderns but the one that leaps to mind is the unique '64 clad quarter.
CK: Quite possibly - another favorite of mine is the PCGS-MS64 SILVER 1965 WASHINGTON QUARTER. One of about 6-8 coins I believe known to exist and the next highest graded coin I have seen in past 5-10 years is in the AU grade.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Not a King of Moderns but could be a sleeper queen.....SBA's of 1981 and the 1999, now that the mint will melt all the dates and mints in its possession.
please define rare as you understand it. most every coin mentioned thus far doesn't fit the generally accepted definition.
For the purpose of this thread, people may define "rarity" however they please, except that the coins should be challenging in all grades, not conditionally rare.
<< <i>please define rare as you understand it. most every coin mentioned thus far doesn't fit the generally accepted definition.
For the purpose of this thread, people may define "rarity" however they please, except that the coins should be challenging in all grades, not conditionally rare. >>
A surprising number of great varieties might fit this. There may be many floating around in circulation so they possibly aren't rare, but only about two dozen 1976-D DDO's are known. "3" '72-D DDR, "2" '71-D DDR, and there are a few less reported quarter varieties which are rare as well; '65 with silver reverse type, '68-D, '72-D and a few other '65 to '72 with type "b" reverse. Then there are some truly esoteric coins which may or may not be rare but most as- suredly aren't common like the '74 reverse of '73, and the '74 reverse of '72. None of the type "d" reverses of '77 to '84 are rare but a couple are rare over VF. (notably the '77 and '78-D). There are various of the early quarters with proof reverses and some of these will prove to be rare since they are not identifiable under VF. A few other quarter varieties will prove to be rare in unc but scarce or uncommon in F and lower. Most of these will prove exceptionally difficult to find available for sale. There are not large numbers of collectors but it's a growing number so when coins become available they are put away for many years.
Some of the proofs deserve mention as well such as the '68 No-S dime and the '90-No-S cent. These exist in sufficient numbers that they are actually available.
I believe that modern (especially mint state) are fundamentally different than classics in one very important respect; some coins are almost impossible to find nice. It's quite possible, perhaps ev- en probable, that collectors will seek collections of only nice coins and this would confer rare status on many more coins, perhaps even including regular issues. Even in circulated grades some regular issues will prove elusive in nice attractive condition. 1982-P quarters are very tough well struck by serviceable dies and without wear or extensive marking. Rare may be an exaggeration but you'll look for a while to find one. Of course the other denominations hold numerous scarcities as well.
Comments
Let me ask you a question? Why did the mint have a policy for about 180 years of keeping design changes to a bare minimum? Well there were many considerations like cost and uniformity but the biggest one was the desire to discourage hoarding (otherwise known as holding large numbers of coins for collector reasons). People like design variety by nature and when it is available it tends to promote greater collector interest. Europe is a prime example, they have an almost endless number of designs to pull from over thousands of years and collecting by design is THE MARKET STRUCTURE the way date and minta mark collecting have been for us. This is changing now in the US markets but many are unwilling to see it. Total market capitalization for type coins (both new and old) is growing much faster than the market in general.
The US mint's impact on the US collector base's habits long term cannot be over stated. They know that growth in collector interest is directly linked to design based variety and they are stacking it one with impressive persistence and making a ton of money while they are at it. What we are witnessing is likely the start of the type coin series collecting era.
The kings will be in my view coins that have very low mintages and a design was only struck for one year. Look to the 50 states quarters structure and then think mintages less than 6,000 and you will be close. In the years 2020 if the current heard of kids that started out looking for different reverses on quarters lead the day this is what they more than likely will be dreaming about.
My picks that have been struck thus far:
2004 Proof Platinum Eagles
2005 Proof Platinum Eagles
$5 MS Jackie Robinson Gold
And any other 5,000 or less mintage one year type coin that has or does to the market. This would include many of the coins already mentioned.
Eric
I prefer the Eunice Shriver Commen, myself.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>What post-1965 coin is sought after by many collectors of modern US coins, rare but obtainable, expensive but not out of the reach of many collectors, has a great story or history behind it, and recognized by coin collectors across the boards as an important coin?
Probably the only thing this coin can relate to above is; not out of the reach of many collectors'
But this might be untrue since I haven't seen another this nice. Not that others exist, I would like seeing another that's just as nice!
Leo >>
Ill 2nd, 3rd, 4th that...
oh you get the idea
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
please define rare as you understand it. most every coin mentioned thus far doesn't fit the generally accepted definition.
Do you consider High Relief Saints to be rare? According to many who have spent a great deal of their life studying the Saints about 6,000 of them have survived in MS-60 or better grade. They are one of if not the King type coin of the $20 golds. There are less $50 04 or 05 proof plats struck. In general in the last 100 years the top twenty rarest type coins by design and denomination had mintages of less than 10,000 and most of them have survived.
Many of these moderns are in fact 100 year type rarities.
Eric
<< <i>Ike
Rarest "modern" coin out there and (possibly) rarest for the entire 20th Century - UNIQUE.
Wondercoin >>
There will prove to be other unique and very rare moderns but the one that leaps to mind is the unique '64 clad quarter.
Rarity is based on how you define it and how many want them..........................
i doubt any would argue with the basic Sheldon scale numbers i posted for any coin accepted as R-5, rare. the nature of your reply is the reason for my question to RYK; to wit, for the purpose of this thread, what does he consider rare to be??
I have seen only a couple
CK: Quite possibly - another favorite of mine is the PCGS-MS64 SILVER 1965 WASHINGTON QUARTER. One of about 6-8 coins I believe known to exist and the next highest graded coin I have seen in past 5-10 years is in the AU grade.
Wondercoin
For the purpose of this thread, people may define "rarity" however they please, except that the coins should be challenging in all grades, not conditionally rare.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>please define rare as you understand it. most every coin mentioned thus far doesn't fit the generally accepted definition.
For the purpose of this thread, people may define "rarity" however they please, except that the coins should be challenging in all grades, not conditionally rare. >>
A surprising number of great varieties might fit this. There may be many floating around in
circulation so they possibly aren't rare, but only about two dozen 1976-D DDO's are known.
"3" '72-D DDR, "2" '71-D DDR, and there are a few less reported quarter varieties which are
rare as well; '65 with silver reverse type, '68-D, '72-D and a few other '65 to '72 with type "b"
reverse. Then there are some truly esoteric coins which may or may not be rare but most as-
suredly aren't common like the '74 reverse of '73, and the '74 reverse of '72. None of the type
"d" reverses of '77 to '84 are rare but a couple are rare over VF. (notably the '77 and '78-D).
There are various of the early quarters with proof reverses and some of these will prove to be
rare since they are not identifiable under VF. A few other quarter varieties will prove to be rare
in unc but scarce or uncommon in F and lower. Most of these will prove exceptionally difficult to
find available for sale. There are not large numbers of collectors but it's a growing number so
when coins become available they are put away for many years.
Some of the proofs deserve mention as well such as the '68 No-S dime and the '90-No-S cent.
These exist in sufficient numbers that they are actually available.
I believe that modern (especially mint state) are fundamentally different than classics in one very
important respect; some coins are almost impossible to find nice. It's quite possible, perhaps ev-
en probable, that collectors will seek collections of only nice coins and this would confer rare status
on many more coins, perhaps even including regular issues. Even in circulated grades some regular
issues will prove elusive in nice attractive condition. 1982-P quarters are very tough well struck by
serviceable dies and without wear or extensive marking. Rare may be an exaggeration but you'll
look for a while to find one. Of course the other denominations hold numerous scarcities as well.