Cutting bids never works

ColonialCoinUnion

Except on coins you don't really want.

RYK

Good advice. If you are referring to the cut bid in my auction report, I was already over my max, and it was sort of a Hail Mary pass.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Good advice. If you are referring to the cut bid in my auction report, I was already over my max, and it was sort of a Hail Mary pass. >>



I was referring to you and most everyone else who tries it.

The last time I saw someone do it successfully was on a $67,500 coin, so I guess it works sometimes for some people. But usually the old cut-bid salute is akin to giving up and rolling over.

ColonialCoinUnion

Double post. Sorry.

au58

They don't work as a last bid, but can be very effective as a set up bid. You have to be prepared to go at least one more bid increment, after establishing the cut bid.

StrikeOutXXX

I use it quite a bit with automobile and antique auctions - why jump at $100 increments when I can jump at $50 or $25 - I'm still going to bid to my max, but may save myself some $$ if the other people drop out at a lower price. I don't use it as a last attempt though - by using it fairly consistantly, others who bid against me don't see it as weakness I suppose.

I wish I could find that post I think Laura wrote a few months ago - something about the live coin auction with 10's of thousand average priced coins where a $20 coin got mixed in, and the crowd was injecting some humor and trying to cut the bids.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I wish I could find that post I think Laura wrote a few months ago - something about the live coin auction with 10's of thousand average priced coins where a $20 coin got mixed in, and the crowd was injecting some humor and trying to cut the bids. >>



Laura? Laura? Actually, I wrote that - it was part of the May 26-June 2 Long Beach Expo 'Road Report' on our website, and I quote:

In a moment of levity, I sat through hours of world coin auctions featuring lots of all shapes and sizes and values up into the mid five-figure range until at some point on Friday afternoon a lot opened at the modest price of just $15. As the auctioneer repeatedly and half-jokingly pleaded for $16 from someone, the dealer in front of me offered to cut the bid to $15.50 which had us all rolling on the floor.

Of course the dealer cutting the bid was Mr. Eureka, which I have not revealed until now.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>They don't work as a last bid, but can be very effective as a set up bid. You have to be prepared to go at least one more bid increment, after establishing the cut bid. >>



But once you cut a bid on a lot at Stack's, or Heritage or ANR (anywhere that I know of) you are out - you can't bid again.

coinguy1

<<They don't work as a last bid, but can be very effective as a set up bid. You have to be prepared to go at least one more bid increment, after establishing the cut bid. >>

Most auctioneers (myself included, based upon instructions I have received) don't allow that. Generally, a bidder gets only one "cut bid" on a given lot. After that, he is not allowed to bid again on that lot.

RYK

Most auctioneers (myself included, based upon instructions I have received) don't allow that. Generally, a bidder gets only one "cut bid" on a given lot. After that, he is not allowed to bid again on that lot.

I am glad you mentioned that, Mark. That's how I thought it worked. The auctioneer did come back to me for another bid after my cut bid was outbid.

ABC123

Heritage allows one cut-bid, per bidder, per coin ! Team bidding can overcome this rule, if you want to be unethical !

StrikeOutXXX

<< <i>Most auctioneers (myself included, based upon instructions I have received) don't allow that. Generally, a bidder gets only one "cut bid" on a given lot. After that, he is not allowed to bid again on that lot.

I am glad you mentioned that, Mark. That's how I thought it worked. The auctioneer did come back to me for another bid after my cut bid was outbid. >>



I suppose it's different everywhere, but good to know or at least to know to ask if I go to new auctions. I've only been "talked to" once to not start with my cut-bids before a reasonable ending price by one of the auctioneers. He basically told me if an item will reasonably expect to bring say $800-$1000, not to start cutting the bids when we're still at $500 or so, rather wait until around $700. I usually start when it's down to two people, and I'm in a respectable price range. I've never heard of only one cut bid before, but again, I'm usually dealing with 4k vehicles and under 1k antiques.

Edit to add/save a 2nd post - CCU, my apologies, thought it was Laura. Still a funny story though - Mr. Eureka huh? I can just picture that room right about then.

Lakesammman

I've seen Bobby you-know-who and others overcome that with 2 or more bidder cards - claims he/they have multiple clients.

greghansen

Actually I've seen it work with some degree of regularity with the onslaught of internet bidding before the auctions. If the auction gets down to one live bidder vs. one or more internet bidders, if the floor bidders most recent bid (say, $5,000) matches the high internet bid, the person calling the internet bids will typically say, 'Previous $5,000'. This is a dead give away to the floor bidder that 5K is the internet bidders top bid, otherwise the person calling the internet bids would have called the next full bid increment. Usually all it takes at that point to win the lot is one cut bid, unless another floor bidder is laying in the weeds to get involved. I agree it rarely, if ever, works when the competition is there live, especially at auctions where they know you can't get back in after placing a cut bid. It is, however, an important weapon against non present internet bidders when used at the right time.

Coinosaurus

I saw a guy score about 3 cut bids in a row at a recent Stack's sale. Maybe it was just luck, but I think what actually happened is that the guy had a very strong feel for the market and for who else was in the room.

tradedollarnut

I saw Bruce Scher win 4 or 5 in a row at the JFS commem sale.

IGWT

<< <i>I saw Bruce Scher win 4 or 5 in a row at the JFS commem sale. >>



Against an Internet bidder(s)?

seateddime

works for me

clw54

I'm probably the only one here who doesn't know what cutting a bid is.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I'm probably the only one here who doesn't know what cutting a bid is. >>



Many auction houses will allow you to cut your bid - i.e. reduce it - to half of the normal next increment. So if the bid is currently $1000 by your competitor, and the auctioneer asks for $1100, you can cut the bid and say $1050. But, in doing so, your are then not allowe to bid again on that lot (at most auction houses) and, if your competitor outbids you, you're toast.

clw54

Thanks, ColonialCoinUnion.

mozin

Cut bids always work. Every time I lose a bid to a floor cut bid I get riled!

BigBuffaloGuy

Our cut bid policy is to allow one cut bid per lot. The person who asked for the cut bid can still bid, but only on increment after a cut has been made.

Mark
Scotsman Auction Co.

P.S. Glad you won some coins to add to your collection RYK.

mozin

BigBuffaloGuy,

Scotsman auctions faked me out by ending internet bidding a day before the live auction. I was wanting to place three serious bids but noticed internet bidding closed one hour before I was planning to place my bids. Those three bids would have totaled over $10,000. Perhaps Scotsman should extend internet bidding closer to actual floor bidding time. I would think about 6 hours prior to actual floor bidding would be sufficient. Some auction houses let one bid right up to the actual floor bid on the lot.

Elcontador

I'm fine with a cut bid if it's my max bid. I either get the coin or I don't; nothing "has my name on it" out there.
I got one lot with a cut bid a few years ago from ANR.

RYK

Our cut bid policy is to allow one cut bid per lot. The person who asked for the cut bid can still bid, but only on increment after a cut has been made.

Mark
Scotsman Auction Co.

I must say Scotsman did a terrific job running the auction. It was better attended and more active than the recent Heritage auctions that I have attended. Mark, the auctioneer, managed the auction and bidding very well, and, at least for the time that I was present, there were none of the hiccups and false starts that I have personally witnessed at recent Heritage sales--except for my own.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Our cut bid policy is to allow one cut bid per lot. The person who asked for the cut bid can still bid, but only on increment after a cut has been made.

Mark
Scotsman Auction Co. >>



Scotsman's cut bid policy is unlike that used at Stack's, Hertiage, ANR, Bowers and Superior to my knowledge. If you cut a bid in any of those other venues, you cannot bid again on that lot.

As such, when you do cut in these venues you are making a clear statement to all of the other bidders that they can top you with one more tiny little bid.

BigBuffaloGuy

We now have enough confidence in our bidding/book-making software that you will likely see online bidding end closer to the live portion of the sale come October.

You might be surprised at how complex the book-making process can be to get correct, so we wanted to allow ourselves enough time to make sure the formulas computed accurate results. That is why Internet bidding closed the evening before the scheduled sale date.

BTW, does everyone know what I mean when I write, "book-making?"

RYK -- Thanks!

Mark

I wonder what happend to my Avatar.

Conder101

I would think that many of the cut bids are being made by dealers bidding for clients and the clients max bids won't allow a full increment, but will allow the cut bid and the dealer doesn't want to go back and tell his client that he lost the coin for less than their maximum bid.

oreville

I agree with conder101.

I find it difficult to call out a cut bids unless I am close up to the auctioneer which unfortunately, I believe to be a poor position physically in the roomto watch other bidders.