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Ebay Seller overgrades ~ unbelievable example!

So I win this auction last week:
Melsportsbook Auction

I'm currently putting together a '60 Topps set and figure I'd maybe land a few gems. The auction clearly states all cards are near mint to mint. Granted, the "picture" is from a far. Then again, the sellers feedback is over 99% with a ton of card sales. I'm kind of excited.

Cards arrive today. They are packaged in rubber bands inside of an empty cd jewel case. You have to see to believe. Not a single card was above VG-EX, with many (such as the Crandall I pulled out) below VG. The Crandall actually had residue from where a large piece of scotch tape had been removed on the front center.

I'm seeking a refund --- but I simply cannot get over some of Ebay's sellers. They end up giving a bad name to the rest of us!

image
- Building these sets:
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
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Comments

  • You paid $0.50 a card, right? What did you expect?
  • If I'm going to buy a raw set of cards labeled Nm-Mt, the seller has to either have a feedback rating of over 1000 where the seller has established some kind of following or send me a larger scan of the cards showing more detail. I'll start with low cost items (like you did) so I would not get too burned if not as described, then stick with the SAME sellers that deliver the goods as described. Sellers "555" and "Aarons" quickly come to mind as I agree with their assessment within a grade- their are many other reliable sellers.

    At any rate, I would make a copy of your auction, highlighting the pharase AllMint to Near mint when you return your cards. Good luck.
  • Xanadu, I agree my out of pocket cost was minimal --- but I could take that same $15 and get a great PSA 8 common from a guy like Goose. And, even more to my point ---- a seller should not list his cards as "mint" when they are so clearly not even close to mint.

    .... and, the fact that he packaged them loose (not even in penny sleeves) inside of a jewel case with rubber bands is almost comical.

    our economy yields a free market which I support, but it's frustrating to have to weed out the 1 good raw seller out of 100 auctions.
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • I'm sorry, I know you can make a stink about the fact that he said Nr-Mnt to Mnt but I think it all boils down to buyer responsibility. Did you really think you were getting PSA 8 - PSA 9 cards for $11? Someone recently made a post about people who try to get more than they bargain for and then get upset when they don't. Just seems like common sense. I'm not entirely sure I know exactly what you expected to get based on the item description and what you paid for it.
  • Is the seller an idiot for shipping the cards the way he did? Absolutely.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm sorry, I know you can make a stink about the fact that he said Nr-Mnt to Mnt but I think it all boils down to buyer responsibility. Did you really think you were getting PSA 8 - PSA 9 cards for $11? Someone recently made a post about people who try to get more than they bargain for and then get upset when they don't. Just seems like common sense. I'm not entirely sure I know exactly what you expected to get based on the item description and what you paid for it. >>



    True, but that doesn't change the fact that the lot was grossly misrepresented-- and that's the whole crux of the OP's beef.

    I would also add, however, that if you're buying raw vintage on Ebay looking for PSA 7 or better cards you should probably get used to this kind of nonsense, and instead of making a stink when you get a bunch of crap in the mail just size your bids to reflect the very real possibility that this will happen. Trust me-- you'll end up going nuts if you try and work refunds for every lousy lot you end up buying, and you'll probably eventually destroy your feedback rating beyond repair.
  • Did you really think you were getting 20 "MINT" 1960 cards for $11?
  • Xanadu,

    Buyer responsibility?

    The first line of the auction states:
    FROM THE COLLECTION OF SPORTSCASTER MEL PROCTOR: TWENTY 1960'S TOPPS BASEBALL CARDS, ALL IN NEAR MINT TO MINT CONDITION:

    Are you saying its my responsibility to assume that Mel Proctor actually has 20 Poor-VG cards and that when he ships them they'll be loose inside of a jewel case? Yes, I only paid $11 + shipping --- but I didn't think I'd get them that cheap. I had a snipe bid and was willing to pay $3-4 per card, a fair price for a lot of commons.

    I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you. It is a seller's responsibility to accurately (as close to possible) state their card's condition -- or, to simply not state a condition if they don't want to. But to blatantly misrepresent the condition is the seller's responsibility.

    A buyer is responsible for honoring his bid and making a timely payment. Furthermore, a buyer shouldn't expect anything outside of what is stated within the auction. It is not my responsibility to assume the seller is lying to me.

    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+


  • << <i>

    << <i>I would also add, however, that if you're buying raw vintage on Ebay looking for PSA 7 or better cards you should probably get used to this kind of nonsense, and instead of making a stink when you get a bunch of crap in the mail just size your bids to reflect the very real possibility that this will happen. Trust me-- you'll end up going nuts if you try and work refunds for every lousy lot you end up buying, and you'll probably eventually destroy your feedback rating beyond repair. >>



    Boopotts, I agree and keep that in mind in my bidding. I've "eaten" several "wins".

    All that said, I'm somewhat of an idealist --- and the idea of just staying quiet and paying the price for a seller's gross misrepresentation just doesn't sit well with me. I'll pursue the refund in this case and probably take tanzanite's advice in the future and only bid on items from certain sellers.
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • I think the problem arises when people simply describe an item as mint to near mint. What you may have expected may be entirely different from what was intended. Were you expecting to get PSA 8 - PSA 9 quality cards? All 20 of them? Sure, you can say that you put in a huge snipe bid but the fact of the matter is that they had been up for a week and up until a few hours before end they were at $10. What does that tell you? I'm sorry that this is the market we live in where people make exaggerated claims to make a sale but, like I said before, I'm still not entirely sure what you expected to get based on the item description and final price?

    Is the seller a douchebag? You bet. But how did you not see this coming?

    "You get what you pay for."
  • Blindflyer, do you believe everything you read? eBay is chock-full with scumbag sellers who would like nothing better than to cash in on someone else's misfortune. Of course, there are also many reputable seller's who are more concerned with your second or third purchase than with your first. It's your responsibility to discern who is who. Is that fair? No. But that's how it is in the real world.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    I would also add, however, that if you're buying raw vintage on Ebay looking for PSA 7 or better cards you should probably get used to this kind of nonsense, and instead of making a stink when you get a bunch of crap in the mail just size your bids to reflect the very real possibility that this will happen. Trust me-- you'll end up going nuts if you try and work refunds for every lousy lot you end up buying, and you'll probably eventually destroy your feedback rating beyond repair. >>



    Boopotts, I agree and keep that in mind in my bidding. I've "eaten" several "wins".

    All that said, I'm somewhat of an idealist --- and the idea of just staying quiet and paying the price for a seller's gross misrepresentation just doesn't sit well with me. I'll pursue the refund in this case and probably take tanzanite's advice in the future and only bid on items from certain sellers. >>















    Raw seller's I've had decent success with (in addition to those already mentioned) are: berkhoutcards, dakorja, dalliedog, dd9191, dow8018, excuzme, kakashka, wholelottalumps and klinger83. Not that you're going to always get 8's on the cards that they sell as nmt-mt, but you I've never gotten a pile of crap from any of these guys. If you see one of these sellers offering something raw that you like then you might want to give them a shot.

    If this kind of thing makes you angry then I'd recommend staying away from unknown entities unless they're offering huge scans of the cards.

    Best of luck on your future purchases-- I know this kind of thing sucks, but it just seems to come with the territory on the 'bay.



  • << <i>Is the seller a douchebag? You bet. But how did you not see this coming?

    "You get what you pay for." >>



    Xan --- I did not expect 20 mint psa 8-9 cards. Honestly, I was hoping to get 4-5 strong cards (NM) and several EX/EX+. I do not think this is unreasonable based on the seller's feedback and auction listing. Check out the guy's feedback? What would you have expected?

    Bottom line: I've been on ebay for 8 years. I have a career in sales myself. I firmly believe you "get what you pay for" -- but I'd argue that that isn't directly applicable to ebay auctions. Zef even mentioned a PSA 9 he sold for $0.99 on ebay recently.

    Most importantly, a marketplace littered with douchebags is bad overall for our hobby. Those buyer's that are looking to get back into the hobby (or start in the first place) will be left with a sour taste in their mouth. I'm not so pretentious to think that it'll be done away with 100% and that we do live in a capitalist society --- but a little integrity within our marketplace would improve our hobby!
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+


  • << <i>Most importantly, a marketplace littered with douchebags is bad overall for our hobby. Those buyer's that are looking to get back into the hobby (or start in the first place) will be left with a sour taste in their mouth. I'm not so pretentious to think that it'll be done away with 100% and that we do live in a capitalist society --- but a little integrity within our marketplace would improve our hobby! >>



    Amen. Put it to a vote and I'll vote for it. Start a petition and I'll sign it. Until then, unfortunately, we must be on the look-out for douchebags.


  • << <i>Blindflyer, do you believe everything you read? eBay is chock-full with scumbag sellers who would like nothing better than to cash in on someone else's misfortune. Of course, there are also many reputable seller's who are more concerned with your second or third purchase than with your first. It's your responsibility to discern who is who. Is that fair? No. But that's how it is in the real world. >>



    Xan -- I'm not an idiot. I get your point. But you seem to be missing mine: seller's should not grossly misrepresent their merch. If they do, I (as a buyer) have a right to publicly out their lies. If buyers everywhere would stand up and fight (through refunds, neg feedback, and public posts) we could make a difference in the hobby as a whole.

    Look at the textile industry. Abercrombie, Seven, Puma etc all face TONS of counterfeit problems. They've let it steamroll over them for years and now they are finally waking up to it ... It's not until people/companies take an active role in fighting the problem that change is made. To say, "that's the real world, oh well" will never help fix the problem.

    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    ""You get what you pay for."

    ////////////////////////////////////////

    Actually, MANY times, you do NOT get what you pay for.

    BUT, you NEVER get what you do not pay for.

    1. The chances of getting "bargains" on raw-cards from eBay's
    "experienced" sellers are VERY close to ZERO.

    2. Until one accepts the TRUTH of #1. above, the chances that
    one will fill up a trash can with JUNK raw-cards - seller-graded
    as NM-MT - are 100%.

    storm



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • AhmanfanAhmanfan Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Auction said NM TO NM/M CARDS

    he recieved VG CARDS

    end of discussion.
    Collecting
    HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
  • The best part of this thread is still the seller's "packaging" ... in fact, as soon as upload day comes along, I may just have to use this as my personal avatar:

    image
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
    blindflyer and Xan,

    you guys are both right. The seller should not intentionally misrepresent the auction, but you should know you are taking a shot in the dark when you bid on a lot like this.

    One bit of advice. Never buy a card a guy calls "MINT." Or even better "MINT TO NEAR MINT." All caps are a sign to run away. Not knowing what they are talking about(people in the know usually say the lesser condition first) is a sign to walk away.

    Look for good scans and sellers with high feedback numbers and percentage. 212 and 99.1 arent very reliable.

    While I agree that they are killing the market, a buyer not familiar with PSA or Collectors Universe might agree with the grades this seller gave those cards. Ya never know.

    One seller I bought a lot of cards from was sidsgraphs. I bought a 1976 Goose Gossage from him for $.99. He sent it in a top loader in a white envelope. The packaging was nearly destroyed. I was outraged. I e-mailed him he should pack it better and so on. The card was beautiful. It got a PSA 9. I bought about 300 other 1976 cards from him, indivdually I should add, and he continued to pack them all the same. He also sold some 1964 Philly fb's that I got 7 PSA 9's on.

    He titled his cards: "1976 Topps #180 Goose Gossage White Sox"

    When you get burned, live and learn. I agree its frustrating to waste $11 on some cards. I just got a card today I bought for too much and it came with a terrible edge. Not fuzzy but more like a notch, possibly from a rubber band at some time. He had this card listed at NM. I didn't and won't say anything. I have bought several 60's cards from him also listed at NM, which is the highest he will ever call a card) that have gotten 9's and 10's. I'll chalk this one up in the loss column.
    EAMUS CATULI!

    My Auctions
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Auction said NM TO NM/M CARDS he recieved VG CARDS end of discussion."

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Yup.

    The only way to know how to not get burned is to get burned.
    (Or, you can talk to folks who were previously burned, BEFORE
    you stick your own hand in the fire.)

    I am pretty sure he will give a refund, but the hassle of returns
    is not my thing, so when I used to gamble and lose on similar
    eBay buys, I just threw the krap in the trash can. (I have even
    bought TOTAL raw GARBAGE from the PSA BST board!!!)

    You MUST know b4 you buy raw cards - sight unseen - whether
    you and the seller are on the same page as to the meaning of
    EX/NM-MT, etc. "References" are the best way to judge a seller's
    grading practices; AND I do NOT mean that nonsense FB that
    eBay provides. Almost everybody on this board has a list of
    raw-card sellers that are "ok." None of those sellers are going
    to tell you that you can buy 20 decent, 1960 BB cards for $12.00.

    blindflyer: If you ever have doubts or questions about a prospective
    purchase, you should consider bringing them here b4 you have spent
    your money. You WILL save a bunch of dough.

    The subject seller has a Gif FB card that he describes as having
    "a slight crease." The card looks like it was in my bicycle wheels
    50-years ago.

    storm

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭
    I agree that a card being 5 grades off is excessive even by ebay standards.

    There are still some types of raw ebay purchases that are relatively safe, but you really have to know what you're doing, even with modern cards. If you learn how to spot alterations, you'd be amazed how many modern rookie cards...and I mean post-2000 cards...have been touched up in various ways. Unfortunately, most collectors are clueless when it comes to recognizing this stuff, so the cards continually circulate. (The ones I've spotted were almost never in mint+ condition. I'm convinced that dealers weaken the condition of their cards once they give up on getting them graded so that their buyers won't submit them).

    For vintage, I pretty much would just stick with reputable sellers (such as the ones mentioned). However, if you see an "unknown" who has a large scan, check to see how he describes his other cards. If his EX cards really look VG, then chances are his NM cards really have flaws that would make them EX. Also, if most of their cards are described extravagantly, then that's an obvious red flag. Sellers with down to earth descriptions of their cards (and quality scans) are much more reliable. I've also noticed that DSL buys a lot of vintage sets from reputable sellers, but that's something I've never tried.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the seller an idiot for shipping the cards the way he did? Absolutely. >>



    I think the idiot here is you. If cards are advertised as nm or better, you should expect an average of at least EX or EX-MT.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    I find it amazing that some of you try and spin this into somehow being Blindflyer's fault.

  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>When you get burned, live and learn. >>



    image

    It really is that simple image

    The point is everyone here has received the raw end of the deal on Ebay at least once. You just have to hope that it wasn't too costly of a lesson, which fortunately for you, it wasn't. If you are concerned about the condition, just ask for a close up scan. If the Seller refuses, that will tell 'ya something right there image

    Shipping the cards with rubber bands and in a jewel case is inexcusable; however, you should have known something was up when you get 20 cards for only $3.00 shipping.

    The saying has been used more than a $5 crack whore but you get what you pay for.

    Good luck on your set image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭
    Experience is a hard teacher.
    Having been born a considerable amount of time before yesterday, I never would have bid on this lot. One look tells me what it is.
    BF - you'll probably get your money back and will have learned a valuable lesson cheaply enough.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • This is a great example of why as a seller I will never give my opinion regarding the grade of a card that i'm selling If I'm going to accept paypal as a form of payment. My definition of mint or nm may be different from someone elses. When I'm asked to give my opinion regarding a card that I'm selling, I'll tell the potential bidder to look at the scan and decide for himself. I also generally tell him that is he's looking for a mint card that he should not be so darn cheap and spend the extra money required to buy one already graded by PSA.
    On a side note, if I'm not accepting paypal as payment, I can care less if someone disagrees with my opinion, so I'll give it!
    Rich


  • << <i>I think the idiot here is you. If cards are advertised as nm or better, you should expect an average of at least EX or EX-MT. >>



    Wow, ouch. If you would have read my replies above, you would have seen that that's exactly what I was expecting.

    I've got to be honest ---- I'm absolutely floored by the majority of the views to this thread. I put a snipe bid in for a lot that (based on seller's feedback) appears trustworthy and receive cards shipped loose inside of a jewel box that are in Poor-VG condition. Yet, I'm the moron, idiot, person at fault, etc.

    It's no wonder there are so many lowlife seller's out there. This community turns a blind eye and chaulk's it up as "buyer responsibility".

    If people actually took a stand to not put up with it we could make a difference in our hobby.

    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭


    << <i>

    It's no wonder there are so many lowlife seller's out there. This community turns a blind eye and chaulk's it up as "buyer responsibility".

    If people actually took a stand to not put up with it we could make a difference in our hobby. >>




    This coming from a person who spent $11 for 20 1960 Topps cards he was hoping would "land a few gems" for his set. Simply because the clueless seller said the cards were NM-mint.

    A big reason why so-called lowlife sellers continue to dump their wares on Ebay is not because the community turns a blind eye to overgrading, it's because people like you continue to bid on this crap thinking you're going to get something for nothing. You actually thought you could score a few PSA 8s and 9s for .50 cents each?

    You get what you pay for.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!


  • << <i>A big reason why so-called lowlife sellers continue to dump their wares on Ebay is not because the community turns a blind eye to overgrading, it's because people like you continue to bid on this crap thinking you're going to get something for nothing. You actually thought you could score a few PSA 8s and 9s for .50 cents each?

    You get what you pay for. >>



    Whatever, you don't even read my posts so how can I argue?

    NO, I did NOT expect PSA 8-9 cards .... I've never stated as such. What I did expect was something above Poor-VG that would be at least moderately protected when shipped.

    This "get what you pay for argument" is weak. People at times pay way too much on ebay AND at times get incredibly good deals.

    Bottom line: I bought something that was grossly misrepresented. The seller has a responsibility to attempt to accurately represent their item(s). Any argument to this defies logic.
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • AhmanfanAhmanfan Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭
    He expected to be delivered what the seller advertised.

    Can I now put a '52 MANTLE PSA 8 on ebay and deliver a '91 SCORE KEN GRIFFEY?

    both deception, just the same! Plus the shipping is rediculous!! We need to email the seller.
    John
    Collecting
    HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS


  • << <i>

    << <i>Is the seller an idiot for shipping the cards the way he did? Absolutely. >>



    I think the idiot here is you. If cards are advertised as nm or better, you should expect an average of at least EX or EX-MT. >>



    You just proved my point. If the cards are listed as nm or better why should you expect an average of at least EX or EX-MT? Is that the way YOU interpret it? What if someone else interprets it differently? You're acknowledging the fact that you have to lower the advertised grade but not by that much. How much lowering is the standard, according to you?

    If you know the actual condition will be lower than the advertised condition it's all one big crap shoot. Unless, of course, you don't snipe and email the seller in the previous days asking for a better scan so you can judge for yourself.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i><< I think the idiot here is you. If cards are advertised as nm or better, you should expect an average of at least EX or EX-MT. >> >>



    That's pretty harsh, and really jaded. To buy from people, assuming that they're lying about their product is just plain foolish. Personally, my experience with buying raw on Ebay has been positive. Perhaps 1 out of 20 transactions, will involve a seller selling junk that I’ll send back (as in, advertised as “no creases, no wrinkles” but has creases and wrinkles). Usually, the sellers are all very courteous and will make things right. Fortunately, I’ve NEVER had to neg a seller for sports cards.

    One thing to keep in mind though is: take a look at the nastiest PSA 7 card you can find. That’s “Near Mint”.

    Besides, on the auction in question, the final hammer price was low. So what. It meant that 1960 Topps set builders weren’t interested in the cards. What if a bidding war started up and drove the price up to $25 or $30? Would that make blindflyer’s case more legit? A while back, one of the guys here on the board saw one of their PSA 9 1969 Topps commons sell for something like $2. What should the buyer expect for $2? A PSA 9 card. The final hammer price doesn’t determine the quality of the merchandise.
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • THE BOTTOM LINE:
    Opinions regarding condition of a card can vary from person to person. With this said, anyone that is looking for a specific grade should spend the extra money required to buy the card already graded.
    Rich


  • << <i>THE BOTTOM LINE:
    Opinions regarding condition of a card can vary from person to person. With this said, anyone that is looking for a specific grade should spend the extra money required to buy the card already graded.
    Rich >>



    image
  • you got screwed and regardless of the fact that you should not have expected anything more for your money, this guy flat out misrepresented what he was selling. EBAY is full of these types of sellers and the surprising thing is how FEW NEGATIVES they get. The reason, in my opinion, is that you will get a negative in return, for telling the truth. The feedback system, while decent, is far from reliable. In my view, sellers should not be able to leave negative feedback UNLESS someone does not pay them for what they bought.
    Mark B.

    Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards

    My PSA Registry Sets

    34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭


    << <i>
    Whatever, you don't even read my posts so how can I argue?

    NO, I did NOT expect PSA 8-9 cards .... I've never stated as such. >>



    In your original post, you said, "I'm currently putting together a '60 Topps set and figure I'd maybe land a few gems."

    If you didn't talk about hoping to land "a few gems" for .50 cents each with your very first words, people might have been a little more sympathetic to your cause, but you were obviously looking to get something for nothing. You said yourself, the pictures of the cards were microscopic and you were unable to tell what their condition was. So did you email the seller asking for larger scans? If he did not send you larger scans, why did you continue to bid?

    You knew darn well there was something amiss with that auction, but in your greed for a bargain, threw common sense out the window. And now you want us all to pat you on the back and tell you that you did the right thing and it was all the seller's fault?


    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!


  • << <i> You knew darn well there was something amiss with that auction, but in your greed for a bargain, threw common sense out the window. And now you want us all to pat you on the back and tell you that you did the right thing and it was all the seller's fault? >>



    bro, give me a break!

    "A few gems" does not equate to 20 PSA 8-9 for $0.50 each. Stop twisted my words and exonerating the seller. I get that you're trying to pick a fight but it's lame and annoying.

    My "greed for a bargain threw common sense out the window" ... Are you kidding me?

    To suggest that the seller doesn't have a responsibility to accurately represent his product is lunacy.

    It's obvious to me that I can't "win" on this board so I'll stop trying. I was simply trying to make a point -- it's obviously lost on over half of you so forget it.

    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> You knew darn well there was something amiss with that auction, but in your greed for a bargain, threw common sense out the window. And now you want us all to pat you on the back and tell you that you did the right thing and it was all the seller's fault? >>



    bro, give me a break!

    "A few gems" does not equate to 20 PSA 8-9 for $0.50 each. Stop twisted my words and exonerating the seller. I get that you're trying to pick a fight but it's lame and annoying.

    My "greed for a bargain threw common sense out the window" ... Are you kidding me?

    To suggest that the seller doesn't have a responsibility to accurately represent his product is lunacy.

    It's obvious to me that I can't "win" on this board so I'll stop trying. I was simply trying to make a point -- it's obviously lost on over half of you so forget it. >>



    Okay, so how many "gems" were you hoping to land out of the 20?

    Since you never answered my quewstion, I take it you never bothered to ask the seller for bigger pictures of the cards? Why not? You said yourself that the picture was too small to get an idea of the card's conditions.

    And finally, why do you think the 20 "near mint to mint" cards went so cheaply? Is it because everybody else listened to their instincts and avoided the auction?


    There's a very good reason that auction sold for so little, because everyone else saw the auction for what it was.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    goose wrote:

    "I find it amazing that some of you try and spin this
    into somehow being Blindflyer's fault."

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    It is NOT bf's fault.

    bf may have had unrealistic expectations, and he may
    not have understood that scamBay is populated with
    crooks. BUT, that does not mean it is bf's fault.

    ALL buyers should do their part to "get educated" about
    the wild-wild-west b4 they buy raw cards on eBay. If
    they do NOT do so, it is STILL NOT ok that they get
    cheated.

    This board and others on CU, have an obligation to
    help new people AVOID being cheated. The boards
    cannot meet the obligation if the new folks do not
    come here B4 they try to navigate crimeBay with
    their own maps.

    "Blame the victim" is not a good way to go. At the same
    time, bf and others, need to understand that the folks
    on this board have collectively seen thousands of scams
    over the years; that kind of deep experience level can
    easily cause the best intended to ask new buyers, "What
    in the heck were you thinking when you did this deal?"

    It is NOT ok to cheat stupid people, new people, or
    people who are inexperienced in the scamBay world.
    The FACT that "none of us," would fall for the kind
    of JUNK that bf went for is NOT the issue.

    Sellers like the one bf dealt with are legion; PLEASE
    KNOW that bf. They continue to operate because
    most buyers are JUST LIKE me; we throw the JUNK
    away and say nothing.

    bf will get his money back and he is not likely to
    repeat this kind of adventure. Thus, the whole
    experience will be both valuable and cheap.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Again, remember, this is an AUCTION. It wasn't a BIN. If a bidding war started up and drove the price up to $40, would everyone still feel the same way?
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25


  • << <i>Sellers like the one bf dealt with are legion; PLEASE
    KNOW that bf. They continue to operate because
    most buyers are JUST LIKE me; we throw the JUNK
    away and say nothing. >>



    Thank you Storm for a well-thought and solid post. I couldn't agree with you more. My point to this entire posting is exactly what you reference above --- most buyers throw the junk away and stay quiet --- no neg posted, no refund request, no public outing on these boards.

    I attempt it and, amazingly, get flamed for being an "idiot."

    "Scambay" is only scambay b/c we as buyers let it be that way. To stay quiet and "accept things" solves nothing. The seller grossly misrepresented his product. PERIOD. I'll raise hell --- and, assuming I get a refund, I will provide neutral feedback stating I rec'd my refund without issue.

    BigHurt, I can't argue with something illogical. It was an AUCTION (AUCTION!) --- I had a snipe bid in and let it go... I didn't know what the final bid would be .. AND, the price it sold for is IRRELEVENT to the point. Yes, I should have asked for a better scan -- but again, that doesn't change a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION by the seller ... and my original point!
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Bottom line: I bought something that was grossly misrepresented. The seller has a responsibility to attempt to accurately represent their item(s). Any argument to this defies logic.


    I agree.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭


    << <i>
    BigHurt, I can't argue with something illogical. It was an AUCTION (AUCTION!) --- I had a snipe bid in and let it go... I didn't know what the final bid would be .. AND, the price it sold for is IRRELEVENT to the point. Yes, I should have asked for a better scan -- but again, that doesn't change a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION by the seller ... and my original point! >>




    I snipe my auctions, but that doesn't stop me from emailing the seller for more pictures if I can't make out the images in a particular auction.

    The fact that it was an AUCTION meant you had plenty of time to inquire about the cards.

    There's a very good reason those cards sold for .50 each. Because people saw it for what it was.

    Are you a total newbie to ebay and card collecting?
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    hurt wrote: "Are you a total newbie to ebay and card collecting?"

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Could well be. All the more reason to cut him some slack.

    AND. ALL the MORE reason to tell him sternly:

    "bf, NOW that you know what can happen, DO NOT
    ever do anything like this again. If you disregard our
    free advice, please do not expect much sympathy
    from the folks on this board."

    The voice of experience is usually harsh on this board,
    when it comes post-error. The same voice is always kind
    when it comes b4 an error.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.


  • << <i>

    I snipe my auctions, but that doesn't stop me from emailing the seller for more pictures if I can't make out the images in a particular auction.

    The fact that it was an AUCTION meant you had plenty of time to inquire about the cards.

    There's a very good reason those cards sold for .50 each. Because people saw it for what it was.

    Are you a total newbie to ebay and card collecting? >>



    Were you on your high school debate team? You shift the argument beautifully and manage to complete ignore my main point with everyone of your posts.

    Been on ebay forever --- just recently got back into card collecting.

    Thing is -- I'm not arguing that there's a reason I won the auction so cheap. BUT WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? It is completely irrelevent to my point of a seller's gross misrepresentation and the negative affect that has on our hobby.
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    bf wrote:

    "Thing is -- I'm not arguing that there's a reason I won the auction so cheap.
    BUT WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? It is completely irrelevent
    to my point of a seller's gross misrepresentation..........."

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    The "relevance," in the view of some, is that ALL bf had to do
    was look at the sellers other auctions, THEN bf "should/would have
    known" that the seller was scamming grades.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • well put, Storm. I still think the feedback system on ebay should favor buyers and NOT sellers. Sellers should have limited ways to retaliate i.e. leave neg feedback as retribution for being given a negative rating. This way, buyers would be able to really express a true and accurate rating instead of "throwing the junk away and not leaving feedback" for fear of retaliation.
    Mark B.

    Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards

    My PSA Registry Sets

    34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set


  • << <i>The "relevance," in the view of some, is that ALL bf had to do
    was look at the sellers other auctions, THEN bf "should/would have
    known" that the seller was scamming grades.

    storm >>



    Fair enough ... but did you actually look at his other auctions? Looking at the last 10 or so with feedback, the seller never mentions "near mint to mint" --- he actually grades his items far more conservatively. Why did he grossly misrepresent on my auction but not the others?

    His Feedback and Previous Auctions

    I'm tired of arguing. It's a lesson learned for me, I get it. My original point can either be gotten or not. For everyone who wants to just stay quiet and let the hobby continue to be flooded with crap, so be it. Thanks to everyone who took the time to engage in this post.
    - Building these sets:
    ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
    ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "I still think the feedback system on ebay should favor buyers and NOT sellers. Sellers should have limited ways to retaliate i.e. leave neg feedback as retribution for being given a negative rating. This way, buyers would be able to really express a true and accurate rating instead of "throwing the junk away and not leaving feedback" for fear of retaliation."

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    That certainly is one of the things that is wrong with FB.

    BUT, I can report to you that there are a BUNCH of dirtbag,
    extortionist buyers on eBay, too.

    I do not know what the solution is. And, eBay does not
    care to find a solution. (We can know this because eBay
    still allows the "open sale of positive FB," and profits
    from the transactions.)

    storm




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
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