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Hypothetical: A collector friend offers to sell you a coin...

RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Collector A and Collector B are friends who collect the same series. A offers a coin for sale, and B would like to purchase it. They agree on price and a meeting place. No money has changed hands. When A goes to the safety deposit box to pull the coin, he realizes that despite the coin is a duplicate or something he otherwise has no use for, he really likes the coin and wants to keep it. What should A do? IS he bound, legally or morally to the deal agreed upon by both parties?

Next, let us assume that A contacts B and asks B to call of the deal. A apologizes and tells B that he decided he would like to keep the coin for his collection. What should B do/say, if anything?

Edit: Would your answer be any different if either A or B were a professional dealer and not a collector?
My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132

Comments

  • solidsolid Posts: 2,975
    In the first scenario, A is morally bound to sell the coin - however, B may let A off the hook and instead
    use the episode to give A all kinds of grief during their lifelong friendship.

    I think that covers both questions image

    Ken

    Edit to respond to your edit: image If A is a dealer, he should be held to a higher standard but, even as a
    collector, once a price is agreed upon, both parties should honor their side of the deal.
  • JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    No harm, no foul. It is just a case of seller's remorse.

    If A is a dealer, he has somewhat more responsibility to complete the transaction.

    If it is just you and Longacre, don't worry about it.
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What should B do/say, if anything? >>



    Post a thread here and whine about it.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • kcnovicekcnovice Posts: 181
    Friends or just acquaintences(sp) either way, collector or pro either way, not that big a deal...for me anyway.

    ps. no life time grief headed your wayimage I've already semi-picked out something to try for from DW.

    Chris


    edit for Russ: sorry to let you down
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    Collector B should hold his breath until Collector A 'gives up', and agrees to sell it to him.
    Coin Rarities Online
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think B should forgive A but in the future make his purchases someplace else!image
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ABC123ABC123 Posts: 2,627
    NO--Assuming they want to stay friends !
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it is just you and Longacre, don't worry about it.

    It isn't, but how do you know about Longacre and me? imageimage
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a collector, no harm no foul.
    As a dealer, if he really wants to keep it, he should just rub some blue ribbon on it so the collector won't want it image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A & B have a duel,winner pays for the "slab"image
    Al
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    two friends? No problem. When it becomes a dupe for sale, make sure to offer it first (again) to your friend. Friendship is more important than the coin.
    JR Newsletter Online Edition
  • AceKAceK Posts: 414
    There is a binding contract, but I would not try to enforce it. Walk away gracefully.
    image
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    A and B should both be shot (or in the alternative, coated with lacquerimage) for agreeing to a deal sight-unseen.

    I don't think A should be bound if he changes his mind while at his deposit box.

    B should let A off the hook, though a bit of good natured ribbing might be called forimage

    If A is a dealer, he should be expected not to act in that fashion, but I'd still let him off the hook.

    If B is a dealer, he would be expected not to let A off the hook, but should.image
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭


    << <i>A and B should both be shot (or in the alternative, coated with lacquerimage) for agreeing to a deal sight-unseen.

    I don't think A should be bound if he changes his mind while at his deposit box.

    B should let A off the hook, though a bit of good natured ribbing might be called forimage

    If A is a dealer, he should be expected not to act in that fashion, but I'd still let him off the hook.

    If B is a dealer, he would be expected not to let A off the hook, but should.image >>

    Looks like an algebraic formula. Is this what they call new Math?image

    Let it go RYK. You can't have the coin.image
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What should B do/say, if anything? >>



    Post a thread here and whine about it.

    Russ, NCNE >>

    image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • DeusExMachinaDeusExMachina Posts: 1,325 ✭
    As collectors, A & B should both recognize that a deal should only be completed if both parties are satisfied. After all, this is just a hobby (and supposed to be fun).

    As for the dealer, I believe that the dealer should honor the transaction. Its more of a business/professional type of set up.
  • seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭
    it depends whom values the friendship more than the coin.

    to me no coin is worth a good friendship.
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    Between friends, shouldn't be an issue. I have found when two collectors are friends and share the same interest in a series, they know how hard it is to give up a coin.

    If one is a dealer, then different story. A dealer is there to buy and sell coins. If the coin was up for sale, then it should be sold. It's kind of like going to McDonald's and ordering a Big Mac and the counter person decides that he wanted it for lunch after he put it on your tray.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    A and B should both be shot (or in the alternative, coated with lacquer) for agreeing to a deal sight-unseen.

    Will they be blue when the lacquer is removed?
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they should go have a beer.... A buys the drinks, B gets drunk...., kicks A's a$$ for gettin' B's hopes up in the first place .

    They go home, sleep it off and can start all over after the hangover wears off...

    This is the preferred solution among collector buddies.
  • seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭


    << <i> A and B should both be shot (or in the alternative, coated with lacquer) for agreeing to a deal sight-unseen.

    Will they be blue when the lacquer is removed? >>



    another IHC?
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
  • Bryan1315Bryan1315 Posts: 579
    I have to go along with everyone else with this one, as long as there was no money that changed hands then there is no foul. I know there was a verbal agreement but what if he went to the safe deposit box to find his wife had taken it out and pawned it 7 months before, would B ask for the one this coin duplicated
    image
  • KaelasdadKaelasdad Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭
    So when A calls his friend and reneges, B should just say" no problem, I just wish i had'nt sold some of my other coins as I was using those proceeds to close our "deal", we did have a "deal" didnt we"? I wonder if I can call those other guys and see if they will laugh it off as well, and give me my coins back.....

    Why assume "A" lives in a vacuum where his actions are the only actions taking place?

    A deal is a deal--How much is your word worth?

    Odd that there should always be so many hypotheticals about honor on these boards, its like .....reminders or something.

    Russ
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,338 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>they should go have a beer.... A buys the drinks, B gets drunk...., kicks A's a$$ for gettin' B's hopes up in the first place .

    They go home, sleep it off and can start all over after the hangover wears off...

    This is the preferred solution among collector buddies. >>



    ABSOLUTELY!!! image
    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is only one more reason why collectors should only buy coins from dealers!


    image
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If it is just you and Longacre, don't worry about it. >>




    I can't afford any of RYK's coins. image
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they are wealthy collectors they spend the next several years in litigation.

    If they are non-wealthy collectors, they exchange some Lincoln Looks at Kennedy pennies and have a beer.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Laugh it off for the time being...wait until he dies and ri...err...buy it from his widow!image
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • NewmismatistNewmismatist Posts: 1,802 ✭✭


    << <i>Collector A and Collector B are friends who collect the same series. A offers a coin for sale, and B would like to purchase it. They agree on price and a meeting place. No money has changed hands. When A goes to the safety deposit box to pull the coin, he realizes that despite the coin is a duplicate or something he otherwise has no use for, he really likes the coin and wants to keep it. What should A do? IS he bound, legally or morally to the deal agreed upon by both parties? >>



    A is legally bound as there is a contract (albeit a verbal contract)to sell the coin (Offer/acceptance, an agreed price and an agreed time and place for delivery). The quandry here is for B to decide. If A refuses to sell the coin the only way to enforce the contract is a lawsuit. A lawsuit, or even the threat of a lawsuit will end the friendship - So B's delimea which would he rather have - a friend or the coin. I'd opt for the friend - they're harder to find than a coin.



    << <i>Next, let us assume that A contacts B and asks B to call of the deal. A apologizes and tells B that he decided he would like to keep the coin for his collection. What should B do/say, if anything? >>



    B should say I'd really like the coin, but if you want to keep it, that's OK - When you do decide to sell it please give me the opportunity to buy it.



    << <i>Edit: Would your answer be any different if either A or B were a professional dealer and not a collector? >>



    Same answer as the 1st hypothetical - but there may be arbitration rights if PNG or ANA members are involved. Dealer B will have to decide whether his friendship with Dealer A is more important than whatever profit he can get for the coin if he were to decide to enforce the contract. There's lots of other coins and maintaining the friendship will undoubtedly garner many more future deals and much more profit in the long run, with the added benefit of having the continued freindship.

    Edited to Add:

    ANA Member Code of Ethics

    To fulfill all contracts made by me, either oral or written, to make prompt payments upon delivery and to return immediately any item that is not satisfactory.
    Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.

    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
    Newmismatist
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am A.
    Kcnovice is B.

    He was nice enough to let me off the hook. If he pushed, I would have sold it. If I ever decide to sell it, I will offer it to him first.

    I am too intimidated by Longacre (and his tentacles in the numismatic world) to enter a private treaty deal with him. imageimage
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • kcnovicekcnovice Posts: 181
    RYK, for all the ?'s you've helped me on I owe you the beers!

    ps, I'd have never pushed for the sale, no worries.image

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