Question for Roosie fans only:
bushmaster8
Posts: 5,616 ✭
Now that the dust has settled, and everyone is at least somewhat familiar with NGC and PCGS full band standards, I have a couple questions.
Which service is more liberal when giving out the FB/FT designation?
Given that NGC requires the vertical as well as the horiz. bands, one would guess that there would be far fewer FB NGC dimes certified (similar to the situation with FBL on PCGS and NGC Franklins).
But, it seems to me that the pop. reports do not bear this out. For several of the rare FB dates (1956,57,58) there are a surprisingly large number of FT's coming out of NGC. Can anyone explain why this is?
Thirdly, how do the two services compare pricewise?
Which is more valuable? A 1952-S MS66FT (NGC), or, a 1952-S MS66FB (PCGS)?
And, finally, how does the grading shake out these days? Is it still true that PCGS employs a stricter MS67 standard than NGC?
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts.
Which service is more liberal when giving out the FB/FT designation?
Given that NGC requires the vertical as well as the horiz. bands, one would guess that there would be far fewer FB NGC dimes certified (similar to the situation with FBL on PCGS and NGC Franklins).
But, it seems to me that the pop. reports do not bear this out. For several of the rare FB dates (1956,57,58) there are a surprisingly large number of FT's coming out of NGC. Can anyone explain why this is?
Thirdly, how do the two services compare pricewise?
Which is more valuable? A 1952-S MS66FT (NGC), or, a 1952-S MS66FB (PCGS)?
And, finally, how does the grading shake out these days? Is it still true that PCGS employs a stricter MS67 standard than NGC?
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
0
Comments
Price-wise, like most other series, PCGS is worth more, grade-for-grade. Ther are of course, some situations where they are both silimar (under grades are generally much closer in price levels) but low pop and more difficlt coins are disparate...for example, a 54S in MS67FT is a $500 coin, a 54S in MS67FB is $2500 coin (5x difference). Ditto for the 55S.
Grading standards, I still say there is 1/2 point difference - much of that due to NGC awarding somewhat higher grades for pretty and attractively toned coins.
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
That's why Nick's coins get low grades!!!!!!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
The FT/FB designation has flip flopped from NGC being strict at the beginning and PCGS more liberal
to now NGC being very liberal and PCGS being very strict. NGC requires the vertical bands to also
be split but does not always adhere to that policy. If there is a line across the top and bottom band
NGC will eventually FT the coin. PCGS use to FB for a line but not any more. Bands must be fully
split for PCGS to now FB the coin. Half the PCGS 63P 66FB's would not get the FB designation today.
Same with several other dates.
The reason for the higher pops from NGC is more the liberal grading by NGC, at least 1/2 point and
older NGC slabbed Roosie are a full point back of PCGS. Over the years before FB/FT NGC graded 5
times the amount of Roosies then PCGS. Most of the coins showing up on the NGC pop report are
old over graded coins being sent in for designation review. I've made over 120 NGC 67FT Roosies
through designation review. Out of that amount I have crossed about 10. The price difference
between NGC and PCGS does reflect this as in colorfulcoins example above. Other then the most
common dates in FB/FT there could be as much as 5x - 10x higher price for the PCGS FB coin over the
NGC FT coin. This is most reflected in the MS67 FB/FT grade. Maybe 2x - 3x in the MS66FB/FT grade
and 2x - 4x in the MS68FB/FT grade.
Another observation I have made over the last couple years is that NGC FT Roosies have held there
value better then the PCGS FB Roosie in the 67 - 68 grades. One example is NGC 68*FT Roosies
use to sell for around $1200 while PCGS 68FB Roosies sold for $6000. Today the same NGC coin
is closer to $2000 while the same PCGS coin is closer to $4500. This same example can be applied
to many dates, The key date PCGS 66FB 67FB coins have held up well. The semi key and common dates
have declined. All NGC dates have done well. I credit most of the price rise in the NGC coins to there
being far more collectors wanting NGC over PCGS. Probably because of the huge difference in price.
I don't think you can go wrong with either side right now, Just buy the coin not the holder.....
Onlyroosies
Nick Cascio
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
I suppose everyone has a different outlook but I just hate to lose even a dime on on a dime when its time to see something else.....
Ken
It can be worthwhile to submit multiple times to NGC for designation review, however, you are much less likely to be successful repeatively submitting to PCGS - especially now.
The other side of the coin is whether or not its even worthwhile to submit a coin for designation review. If I had a 53D PCGS MS66 that I paid $18 for and it was FB, would I spend another $10 for designation review + shipping? No, cause the coin in a MS66FB holder probably isn't worth the $30-40 I'd have in the coin (unless it was very attractively toned or a shot upgrade).
So you are right, it can come down to money - both what you've invested and what you might get out of a coin when you sell......
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
Bands.....yep, them itty bitty things right at the bottom........or is them the railroad tracks?
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
Ken
By the way, you were the one who got me to try the message boards out. I had purchased a roosie from you a while back (Imagine that!) and you had mentioned the BST boards that you postedsome coins on from time to time. I had no idea what you were talking about. All I had used PCGS for in the past was pop reports and the set registry to keep up with my current set inventory (I had a bad habit of buying duplicates before I started the set registry). I finally took a more detailed look at the PCGS web site and saw the message boards. Sure enough Buy-Sell-Trade (BST).
I finally got around to creating an account. These messsage boards seem like a very good resource. I am glad to to able to participate.
q_bert (Freds Roosies)
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
<< <i>Put this roosie title in the proper perspective: I just sent Nick 19 raw brilliant roosies for HIM to determine whether they should get slabbed...see who's opinion I trust??
Does Nick do this for everyone ?....
Ken
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
I have only had one that I cracked out NOT cross at the same grade, and with the bands.
That was the 04-P 68FB, it came back 67FB, I was not supprised. It had 1 tick on the cheekbone that pretty much sealed its fate, even with the rest of the coin looking 69ish. (69ish, I like the sound of that.)
Paul,
Check my set at NGC's registry -- there ARE nice roosies in NGC holders.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Put this roosie title in the proper perspective: I just sent Nick 19 raw brilliant roosies for HIM to determine whether they should get slabbed...see who's opinion I trust??
That's only half the story!
The other half is that Rainbowroosies is so old now, he is having a wee bit o' trouble seeing those little bastiges.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
humor is wonderful...unfortunately, I am OLD...of course, the alternative is DEAD...I'll take OLD any day...what would be worse for me, would to be color blind...THAT would hurt!!!!!!!!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003