For every action there is an equal & opposite reaction....or so the saying goes.
massscrew, thought of that, but what happens when, like Kingpin, you move? address & phone # become invalid.
The root cause to this is trust, and now nobody trusts anyone unless we have an FBI file on them.
I was on board, and am on board, but damn if this isn't getting too big.
I don't mind making fairly large swaps here with folks I know, but I'll be damned if I'm putting up $200 so I can make swaps for that amount. Sure, there are folks here that are wealthy, doen't mean they want to tie up their money just to make swaps.
Communication & trust......
I too was thinking of a coin 'booty' to join, & have it available to any member that is stiffed, but sound like that's not a popular idea.
The only SURE-FIRE option would be to have someone above reproach be a go-between. This person would get the swaps, and send them out once both packages where recieved.....personally I don't like it, but if you want to take trust out of the equation, this is the way to do that.
I guess I just want to say I am NOT in favor of surety money.
"massscrew, thought of that, but what happens when, like Kingpin, you move? address & phone # become invalid."
I agree...and I'm out of solutions on top of what's been presented here already. No matter what, it comes down to some level of trust. As far as addresses/telephone #'s and I'm concerned: I've been here 41 years and I'm not going anywhere soon. But, there's the "kingpin" situation going on right now that shoots holes in my idea. Hmmm, perhaps a store of coins/cash is the only way. I would do it, but how about the rest that have posted here????
WHEN you do a swap you exchange phone numbers, and if you have a complaint that cant get resolved then you contact Mr Boom
this SWAP CLUB was started with the thought that everyone would do what is right and FAIR! so far for the most part everyone is doing that, there are a few exceptions. there is the kingpin thing going on now, Torino is out coins and then there was the Louie issue, He finally came though on my end ,it took a while ,But I think he might still owe a few others? thats all for now, more after I have some coffee
Everyone sends Boom a coin or coins worth a preset amount. If the coins do not match the preset dollar amount they will be returned at the owners expense.
Each time you send in a entry you get to pick a number 1- 42. The entry's will have a cutoff date. ( a date coins must be received by Boom by.) The cutoff date is the date that starts our lottery form Powerball's Draw date.
The first time a number ( The powerball numbers are the red numbers listed ) is selected at Powerball.com that was selected by one of our entry's is the winner of all coins sent in to boom. Minus the coins the winning entry or entry's had sent in to seed the next Lottery.
Maybe place a limit of entry's per member. As there is only 42 powerball numbers.
If more than one member selects the winning powerball number in any given Lottery then the coins will be split up equally by Boom.
The members can post the coins they sent in as their entry. So the winning member will know what to expect from Boom.
I use Boom as the main guy but anyone who is voted on by all members can act as the person we send coins to.
Just a simple way to have fun to swap and share coins. and maybe do this one time each month or every 2-3 months.
This may sound complicated to some but it is a rough Idea and I am sure the members here can iron out the details to make and keep it simple. The main thing is keep it simple and fun.
THE UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD COIN SWAPPERS SOCIETY
Wade, you forgot bug-eyed..........THE UGLY BUG-EYED REDHEADED STEP CHILD COIN SWAPPERS SOCIETY
Another idea......what if the 'level' of participation is tied to the number of swaps made (instead of surety)? First swap a $25 limit, second $50, third $100, etc. MAX.
There is no guarentee you won't get 'jacked', but there never was....BOOM has done his best to safeguard us, but there was & (IMO) never will be guarentee. The surety might take someone think twice, but if they have a $25 surety & are involved in a $200 swap.....well..... And placing a $200 surety to swap make no sense IMO.
Calling the Vegas area Sherriff's Department Monday Morning as soon as I get off the phone with the County District Attorney's Office.
Theft over Interstate Boundaries is a Felony prosecutable by the Feds. Screw this! Wanna play stupid and chit with me? So be it MFer.
Torino, I need a breakdown of what was shipped and it's resale value. I also want his last known address to see where he has had his mail forwarded to. I'll find him. Wonder how Ray will like a Felony Theft Rap against him!
Please do not use email to report a crime or request immediate police service. Please contact us by phone or in person. LVMPD General Information Non Emergency: 311 or (702) 229-3111 TTY-(702) 229-3111 Office of the Sheriff (702) 229-3231 OfficeoftheSheriff@lvmpd.com
Domestic Violence (702) 229-4431 Detention Center (702) 671-3900
Reluctantly, if you need a secretary to be on top of this I offer my services. I agree with ajia and the crew that this is unnecessary, however there could be a few jago$$s out there who really want to try me. Give it a shot, a federal law enforcement agency at your front door over $80 may not be worth it. BTW I offer a PCGS ms-69 $5 eagle for the surety.. Big Smile.....
well from the looks of things- I see Kingpin has come back- Ray- time to fess up, be honest with TC in a pm, and TC, no need to divulge the pm to us.
BOOM:
I will give you a call later today- i'ma gonna look at smoe stuff, but I wanted to get this off my chest.
As you recall I was heitant about doing anymore swaps based on how a person 'waits' to see what they get. As I once told you and I'll say it here- folks, take a look in the mirror- would you trust the person you see?
I look in the mirror each day and ask myself if I am trustworthy enough not to get anyone hurt or killed during my day at work, let alone get my self in that situation- I go to work each day and I make it home, and the 145 folks that I work with do it as well- so apparently if I can trust this face, knowing I don't wish to be screwed over- then I should have a little faith in the folks that hang out here and do these swaps.
IF you are a clown like the jonlimle issue, or a few others that have been here trying to pull the same bull *hit, then remember what a few have started - it takes nothing to notify the authorities in YOUR area and have them at your front door. If you feel that it is necessary to steal from someone here on the boards- forget it- WE are proud of what we do for fun, and I personally will come and rip your head off and take a mean *hit down your gullet for trying to steal from me. The only game I play is with my wife- this is a hobby of fun- not theft to gain $$.
If you join this organization, understand that the bylaws will be held strictly in check when it comes to swapping with a partner. The future name of our organization (THE UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD SAWPPERS SOCIETY) is in fun, the ideals are for enjoyment, the swaps are for real- the coin itself may be a penny or a dime, but it is the value placed on said coin that we as numistmatists take into consideration.
Since the vast majority of the folks getting into this group will be board members, and those we might want to bring in as a new guest- will need to meet certain guidelines, one is longevity, and if you are new- I feel at least 2 refrences from other board members that may not wish to join our ELITE group of nutz, must confirm to the board that you are an upstanding person and would be an asset to our society.
I would agree on having a surety in this club under one condition- once in the club and you have made a minimum of 6 successful swaps, the surety would be returned. The reason I invoke this in part- it may be a coin that is in my collection that I may want to sell, because the time is right to put it on the market. If you have been in good standing with the group for more than 6 or 7 swaps and have not requested your surety- then it would automatically be returned to you with an award letter as being a good UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD.
I propose that the society get together once a year at a selected location for a 2 day MONSTER SWAP! Where we meet each other, and bring a friend. If done correctly we can meet almost anyplace that is fun to goof off, do our thing and make the society as a whole much friendlier, and it can be done cheaply. Obviously if we have YN's in the group- we need the parents to be there as well.
Many ideas, and a little ways to go to get this rolling.
A few thoughts (rebuttals) on what you have said....... I would say sometimes it is not that 1 of the swappers is not waiting " to see what they get.", but rather one of the swappers 'wish list' is easy to fulfill, while the others is not, and takes longer. Also, I think once you get screwed in a trade where you got cr@p, it's human nature to 'look' before you leap.....not saying it's right, but I can understand it.
As far as trustworthiness, I think I am. My biggest flaw is either procrastination or too busy (they sometimes go hand in hand). I get up at 4:30 to get to work at 8 to get off at 4 to be home by 6:30 to eat, catch some TV or go online to 'hit-it' at 10. I sometimes say I'll drop a package 'tomorrow' & don't find the time for another day or 2. BUT I don't 'stiff' anyone.
Also MH2, & I consider you a friend so I hope you take this the right way, you would scare me away from this 'club' if I knew you would, "personally (will) come and rip your head off and take a mean *hit down your gullet for trying to steal from me" I do not condone vigilantism. I do agree with taking every means possible; phone calls, mail, emails, calling them out here, then on to legal action.
I don't think this is the message we should be sending. JMO.
I also have another thought (I should be writing all these down).......unless otherwise agreed upon by swappers, the swaps should be either for graded coins or raw. BOTH the same.......or if agreed to mix graded coins for graded coins, the raw coins should be sent first for approval. Only top 3-4 TPG would be considered graded, or a point reduction list made for other TPG's.
And I think we should all know why Kingpin has let this community down, especially if he ever want to swap again.
<<Also MH2, & I consider you a friend so I hope you take this the right way, you would scare me away from this 'club' if I knew you would, "personally (will) come and rip your head off and take a mean *hit down your gullet for trying to steal from me" I do not condone vigilantism. I do agree with taking every means possible; phone calls, mail, emails, calling them out here, then on to legal action.>>
Augie
I was trying to point out that if I were to trade with anyone, and after our chat and we decide to swap say $3-500 worth of coins- I'd be pretty perturbed if the scoundrel up and jumped, leaving me with zilch- the surety would not cover such a deal, because the surety would not have this knowledge as to the swap, and thus the only recourse other than outing that person here is telling Boom that this persons surety is on the line, Boom would come back with a - hey Wade- the guy only put up a 100 for his surety- you have to eat the balance!
I personally would not 'eat' anything, but the swapper would definitely be seeing spinning lights outside his door, and that person ringin the bell is wearing a uniform- not the pizza delivery guy. I would never touch anyone, not my style- but I would make that persons life a living hell for stealing- that's all I'm saying.
You're my buddy- my ugly redheaded(bug eyed) stepchild coin swapper buddy.
I have faith in friendship- that is how I hope this works out.
We'll see how this issue with Kingpin pans out. The guy I knew would never have done anything unethical.
I try to see the good in people and as far as I am concerned he is a good person but I just cannot believe that he'd make the same mistake twice in a row! This is EXACTLY why I am going to have the 3 basic rules etched in stone.
For less than $2 you can spare yourselves a LOT of grief and the embarassment of having your Name dragged thru the mud simply by purchasing Insurance and providing your partner with Delivery Confirmation #s but from now on it will be MANDATORY that every swapper come to this forum, to the particular swap thread and POST THE DEL CONF # FOR ALL TO SEE.
One way or another I have to put a stop to this un-needed "stuff". All members WILL POST shipping info from now on and also will be truthful when declaring whether or not they are mutually satisfied. For Pete's sake, this is Shipping Basics 101.
We must be reasonable in all aspects of coin swapping. All this needless stress can be easily avoided and misunderstandings done away with if only people would COMMUNICATE with one another about specifics.
This is supposed to be fun and to promote comraderie AND THE HOBBY.... Not ill feelings! Geeez, there is enough stress and strife in the world. We do not need to inflict upon one another when TRYING to enjoy our hobby at it's grass roots' level.
Comments
massscrew, thought of that, but what happens when, like Kingpin, you move?
address & phone # become invalid.
The root cause to this is trust, and now nobody trusts anyone unless we have an FBI file on them.
I was on board, and am on board, but damn if this isn't getting too big.
I don't mind making fairly large swaps here with folks I know, but I'll be damned if I'm putting up $200 so I can make swaps for that amount.
Sure, there are folks here that are wealthy, doen't mean they want to tie up their money just to make swaps.
Communication & trust......
I too was thinking of a coin 'booty' to join, & have it available to any member that is stiffed, but sound like that's not a popular idea.
The only SURE-FIRE option would be to have someone above reproach be a go-between. This person would get the swaps, and send them out once both packages where recieved.....personally I don't like it, but if you want to take trust out of the equation, this is the way to do that.
I guess I just want to say I am NOT in favor of surety money.
What do you all think of:
THE UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD COIN SWAPPERS SOCIETY
address & phone # become invalid."
I agree...and I'm out of solutions on top of what's been presented here already. No matter what, it comes down to some level of trust. As far as addresses/telephone #'s and I'm concerned: I've been here 41 years and I'm not going anywhere soon. But, there's the "kingpin" situation going on right now that shoots holes in my idea. Hmmm, perhaps a store of coins/cash is the only way. I would do it, but how about the rest that have posted here????
WHEN you do a swap you exchange phone numbers, and if you have a complaint that cant get resolved then you contact Mr Boom
this SWAP CLUB was started with the thought that everyone would do what is right and FAIR! so far for the most part everyone is doing that, there are a few exceptions. there is the kingpin thing going on now, Torino is out coins
and then there was the Louie issue, He finally came though on my end ,it took a while ,But I think he might still owe a few others?
thats all for now, more after I have some coffee
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
Everyone sends Boom a coin or coins worth a preset amount. If the coins do not match the preset dollar amount they will be returned at the owners expense.
Each time you send in a entry you get to pick a number 1- 42.
The entry's will have a cutoff date. ( a date coins must be received by Boom by.)
The cutoff date is the date that starts our lottery form Powerball's Draw date.
The first time a number ( The powerball numbers are the red numbers listed ) is selected at Powerball.com that was selected by one of our entry's is the winner of all coins sent in to boom. Minus the coins the winning entry or entry's had sent in to seed the next Lottery.
Maybe place a limit of entry's per member. As there is only 42 powerball numbers.
If more than one member selects the winning powerball number in any given Lottery then the coins will be split up equally by Boom.
The members can post the coins they sent in as their entry. So the winning member will know what to expect from Boom.
I use Boom as the main guy but anyone who is voted on by all members can act as the person we send coins to.
Just a simple way to have fun to swap and share coins. and maybe do this one time each month or every 2-3 months.
This may sound complicated to some but it is a rough Idea and I am sure the members here can iron out the details to make and keep it simple.
The main thing is keep it simple and fun.
Jeffs
I take it no one likes my idea- it was/is a fun name to go with.
Wade, you forgot bug-eyed..........THE UGLY BUG-EYED REDHEADED STEP CHILD COIN SWAPPERS SOCIETY
Another idea......what if the 'level' of participation is tied to the number of swaps made (instead of surety)?
First swap a $25 limit, second $50, third $100, etc. MAX.
There is no guarentee you won't get 'jacked', but there never was....BOOM has done his best to safeguard us, but there was & (IMO) never will be guarentee.
The surety might take someone think twice, but if they have a $25 surety & are involved in a $200 swap.....well.....
And placing a $200 surety to swap make no sense IMO.
I do like the other suggestions though.
Theft over Interstate Boundaries is a Felony prosecutable by the Feds. Screw this! Wanna play stupid and chit with me? So be it MFer.
Torino, I need a breakdown of what was shipped and it's resale value. I also want his last known address to see where he has had his mail forwarded to. I'll find him. Wonder how Ray will like a Felony Theft Rap against him!
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Reluctantly, if you need a secretary to be on top of this I offer my services. I agree with ajia and the crew that
this is unnecessary, however there could be a few jago$$s out there who really want to try me. Give it a shot,
a federal law enforcement agency at your front door over $80 may not be worth it. BTW I offer a PCGS ms-69
$5 eagle for the surety.. Big Smile.....
BOOM:
I will give you a call later today- i'ma gonna look at smoe stuff, but I wanted to get this off my chest.
As you recall I was heitant about doing anymore swaps based on how a person 'waits' to see what they get. As I once told you and I'll say it here- folks, take a look in the mirror- would you trust the person you see?
I look in the mirror each day and ask myself if I am trustworthy enough not to get anyone hurt or killed during my day at work, let alone get my self in that situation- I go to work each day and I make it home, and the 145 folks that I work with do it as well- so apparently if I can trust this face, knowing I don't wish to be screwed over- then I should have a little faith in the folks that hang out here and do these swaps.
IF you are a clown like the jonlimle issue, or a few others that have been here trying to pull the same bull *hit, then remember what a few have started - it takes nothing to notify the authorities in YOUR area and have them at your front door. If you feel that it is necessary to steal from someone here on the boards- forget it- WE are proud of what we do for fun, and I personally will come and rip your head off and take a mean *hit down your gullet for trying to steal from me. The only game I play is with my wife- this is a hobby of fun- not theft to gain $$.
If you join this organization, understand that the bylaws will be held strictly in check when it comes to swapping with a partner. The future name of our organization (THE UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD SAWPPERS SOCIETY) is in fun, the ideals are for enjoyment, the swaps are for real- the coin itself may be a penny or a dime, but it is the value placed on said coin that we as numistmatists take into consideration.
Since the vast majority of the folks getting into this group will be board members, and those we might want to bring in as a new guest- will need to meet certain guidelines, one is longevity, and if you are new- I feel at least 2 refrences from other board members that may not wish to join our ELITE group of nutz, must confirm to the board that you are an upstanding person and would be an asset to our society.
I would agree on having a surety in this club under one condition- once in the club and you have made a minimum of 6 successful swaps, the surety would be returned. The reason I invoke this in part- it may be a coin that is in my collection that I may want to sell, because the time is right to put it on the market. If you have been in good standing with the group for more than 6 or 7 swaps and have not requested your surety- then it would automatically be returned to you with an award letter as being a good UGLY REDHEADED STEP CHILD.
I propose that the society get together once a year at a selected location for a 2 day MONSTER SWAP! Where we meet each other, and bring a friend. If done correctly we can meet almost anyplace that is fun to goof off, do our thing and make the society as a whole much friendlier, and it can be done cheaply. Obviously if we have YN's in the group- we need the parents to be there as well.
Many ideas, and a little ways to go to get this rolling.
add to the thoughts folks.
A few thoughts (rebuttals) on what you have said.......
I would say sometimes it is not that 1 of the swappers is not waiting " to see what they get.", but rather one of the swappers 'wish list' is easy to fulfill, while the others is not, and takes longer.
Also, I think once you get screwed in a trade where you got cr@p, it's human nature to 'look' before you leap.....not saying it's right, but I can understand it.
As far as trustworthiness, I think I am. My biggest flaw is either procrastination or too busy (they sometimes go hand in hand).
I get up at 4:30 to get to work at 8 to get off at 4 to be home by 6:30 to eat, catch some TV or go online to 'hit-it' at 10.
I sometimes say I'll drop a package 'tomorrow' & don't find the time for another day or 2. BUT I don't 'stiff' anyone.
Also MH2, & I consider you a friend so I hope you take this the right way, you would scare me away from this 'club' if I knew you would, "personally (will) come and rip your head off and take a mean *hit down your gullet for trying to steal from me"
I do not condone vigilantism. I do agree with taking every means possible; phone calls, mail, emails, calling them out here, then on to legal action.
I don't think this is the message we should be sending. JMO.
I also have another thought (I should be writing all these down).......unless otherwise agreed upon by swappers, the swaps should be either for graded coins or raw.
BOTH the same.......or if agreed to mix graded coins for graded coins, the raw coins should be sent first for approval. Only top 3-4 TPG would be considered graded, or a point reduction list made for other TPG's.
And I think we should all know why Kingpin has let this community down, especially if he ever want to swap again.
'Nuff for now.
Augie
The RULES are always posted and are very basic and include
1- COMMUNICATION
2- Deciding on a figure between partners and by what guidelines coins will be valued.
3- PROTECTING YOURSELVES AND YOUR INTERESTS WITH DELIVERY CONFIRMATION and quite possibly insurance.
All the rest of this is nonsense.
I do not condone vigilantism. I do agree with taking every means possible; phone calls, mail, emails, calling them out here, then on to legal action.>>
Augie
I was trying to point out that if I were to trade with anyone, and after our chat and we decide to swap say $3-500 worth of coins- I'd be pretty perturbed if the scoundrel up and jumped, leaving me with zilch- the surety would not cover such a deal, because the surety would not have this knowledge as to the swap, and thus the only recourse other than outing that person here is telling Boom that this persons surety is on the line, Boom would come back with a - hey Wade- the guy only put up a 100 for his surety- you have to eat the balance!
I personally would not 'eat' anything, but the swapper would definitely be seeing spinning lights outside his door, and that person ringin the bell is wearing a uniform- not the pizza delivery guy. I would never touch anyone, not my style- but I would make that persons life a living hell for stealing- that's all I'm saying.
You're my buddy- my ugly redheaded(bug eyed) stepchild coin swapper buddy.
I have faith in friendship- that is how I hope this works out.
I try to see the good in people and as far as I am concerned he is a good person but I just cannot believe that he'd make the same mistake twice in a row! This is EXACTLY why I am going to have the 3 basic rules etched in stone.
For less than $2 you can spare yourselves a LOT of grief and the embarassment of having your Name dragged thru the mud simply by purchasing Insurance and providing your partner with Delivery Confirmation #s but from now on it will be MANDATORY that every swapper come to this forum, to the particular swap thread and POST THE DEL CONF # FOR ALL TO SEE.
One way or another I have to put a stop to this un-needed "stuff". All members WILL POST shipping info from now on and also will be truthful when declaring whether or not they are mutually satisfied. For Pete's sake, this is Shipping Basics 101.
We must be reasonable in all aspects of coin swapping. All this needless stress can be easily avoided and misunderstandings done away with if only people would COMMUNICATE with one another about specifics.
This is supposed to be fun and to promote comraderie AND THE HOBBY.... Not ill feelings! Geeez, there is enough stress and strife in the world. We do not need to inflict upon one another when TRYING to enjoy our hobby at it's grass roots' level.
TorinoCobra71