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A Must Read regarding Future Coin Swaps- A Forum for all interested parties
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
<< I've thought of swapping before but have been too scared >>
I'm about to address peoples' "fears" & reservations.
A set of guidlines is going to be implemented that will make each and every one of us accountable to everyone else.
All deadbeats are, as of now, at the end of their Life Cycles.
A verified Master List will be drawn up. I "move" that at least two other Members help me do follow up work including issues yet to be addressed.
I suppose, in essence, we are going to form our own Coin Club, complete with Officers and bylaws. What say all?
This is going to be run cleanly or what happened recently to a certain ex-member will be made to look like a minor incident.
I would like to make this an enjoyable, mutually gratifying, experience for all and to generate interest in these swaps so that more & more people participate.
Why does everything have to be so difficult? People ... what is so frigging hard about agreeing on a figure and swapping coins?
NO SWAP WILL BE DECLARED FINAL UNTIL BOTH PARTIES POST (after COMMUNICATING WITH ONE ANOTHER) THAT THEY ARE SATISFIED.
SPEAK UP!.................... TO BE CONTINUED.
0
Comments
Jim
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
-------------------------
Good trades with: DaveN, Tydye, IStillLikeZARCoins, Fjord, Louie, BRdude
Good buys from: LordMarcovan, Aethelred, Ajaan, PrivateCoinCollector, LindeDad, Peaceman, Spoon, DrJules, jjrrww
Good sale to: Nicholasz219
----------
2Kopeiki
8 Reales Madness Collection
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
I agree with you. What help do you need?
Big Dave
-------------------------
Good trades with: DaveN, Tydye, IStillLikeZARCoins, Fjord, Louie, BRdude
Good buys from: LordMarcovan, Aethelred, Ajaan, PrivateCoinCollector, LindeDad, Peaceman, Spoon, DrJules, jjrrww
Good sale to: Nicholasz219
It doesn't need to stay ttt all the time but until we get everyones' attention and declare our intentions, it might be a good
idea to keep it in view for all to see.
TorinoCobra71
<< <i>We still need a damn name! >>
Yes we do and we also will need some sort of bylaws and a governing body or I will continue as I have in the past.
Right now I am really ticked off with a couple people and when my patience wears out, there is going to be some public flogging.
Consider this Due Warning. YOU know who you are.
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
Regards,
John
Have a great day everyone!
sorry
Jeffs
Augie
I remember when I took the Bull by the horns. It was utter chaos around here with Louie at the helm ... and to think, I once liked the man. We'll not go there. Bury it! It's Old News and finished business.
Anyway, somebody had to do it and in a way I consider you guys the family I do not have.
I have to remind myself often how this hobby started for me so many years ago, yet it seems like only yesterday.
I have no desire to be a Dictator but I'll not see a couple "Bad eggs" continually causing the same repetitive problems over and over again therefore I am suggesting this be turned into a legitimate Club with binding Club Rules and Bylaws.
I do not complain nor do I confide in many people but there has been enough Stress in my life over the past year that if I told you all you'd have your mouths wide open in utter amazemment.
Let's just say that as for my life, NOTHING IS as it was and to this day the Stress has not ceased but I can smell the goal line and this Dog doesn't know how to quit.
I am being vague purposfully because the eyes of the world are literally upon us. OK, so I've screened newbies thoroughly and none (so far) have let me down. Most of them (except cc15) has gone thru me first because as leader it was incumbent upon me to assume the responsibility for the good of the group and stood to reason that if anyone I approved would let anyone down, it would be ME. This is just my Nature.
Just as most of you well know, I stood against hostile, incredible odds the first year I decided to include fellow members in my own lifetime tradition of reaching out to the less fortunate at Christmas. They, not knowing me because I, at that time, was the newbie came at me with enough insinuations, accusations vicious hurtful words that a lesser man would have thrown in the towel and just said, "Screw it." But I repeat, there ain't no quit in this Dog.
And so, it carries over unto this. Now, I'll be damned if a few grown men will be allowed to continue with certain behavior patterns and thereby disrupt the whole, or worse... they actually deter people from even wanting to take part.
The Guidelines, I have made PERFECTLY CLEAR so many times that those of you that have been here the longest (eyoung comes to mind) know the rules by heart and has helped answer questions and to even quote those common sense rules to newcomers and I appreciate it tremendously.
This is supposed to be fun and common friggin' sense along with the Spirit of making someone, other than YOURSELF, happy. If I have screened an individual you can believe that they have totally satisfied my very thorough process. There should be NO REASON for some of the crap that goes on around here.
What is so damned hard about giving? I have said to communicate with your partners, to agree on an amount based on a mutual pricing guide depending on what is being sent. YOU DO NOT USE THE PCGS PRICE GUIDE for raw coijns, DUH! Are we a bunch of upper crust Numismatists or self centered, greedy people that worry only about #1? Many of you have come to me to mediate swaps that were not even parts of this organized swap and I sat as fairly and as neutrally as possible, weighed the facts and then made the call and was happy to do so but I am up to my nose with the needless BS that goes on around here between the same members time and time again.
Have I not CLEARLY STATED NOT TO DO ANYTHING with what you receive until the swap was declared mutually satisfactory by both parties publicly, IN THIS VERY FORUM? DO NOT get up here and say one thing when you mean something entirely different. IF THE SWAP IS NOT MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE the dammit, send each others' coins back.
I have stated NOT to place unrealistic demands and or ultimatums on your partner. Some here do not have the revenue to cater to "I collect strictly this or nothing" demands. I propose a Master List to be kept by me and at least a couple other trusted aids just in case.... because things ( like with Frank, the Pug) DO HAPPEN. It's called Death.
Look, I am (if I must say so myself) a very patient, a very understanding, fair and compassionate man and I will NOT stand for grown men (or women) to conduct themselves in assinine manners. If in doubt, add MORE. DO WE WANT TO SEE THIS CONTINUE TO GROW or are a few bad apples going to ruin it for the whole?
A sort of Report Card on each and every one of us will be kept. First incident, I'll listen then mediate. Second incident you are treading on thin ice. There will be NO 3rd Strike. I want to see a quality group here and NOT a bunch of 2 faced whiney babies. Although compassionate, I assure you all that when I have had enough of someone's antics, not only will he be banned forever but will also be lambasted publicly so that everyone that belongs to this Collectors Club will be made to know just what sort of individual you truly are. I guess it WOULD be a fair statement to say that the BOOM will be lowered on said persons in a BIG WAY, so much so that if you think what happened to Louie was bad it will be made to look like a minor incident.
This is my opening stance. Those with me are welcome to participate. Those that can't cut it and want to go ... START MARCHING because I would much prefer to have 10 solid individuals that I do not have to babysit than 30 that cause needless, utter chaos. I DO have a limit to my patience.
Anyone that feels he or she can conduct themselves in a mature, ethical way is free to stay. Conversely, if you do not have what it takes, kindly leave NOW and don't let the proverbial door hit you in the ace when you go. There WILL BE accountability around here along with (I propose) Dues for in case it is proven that you hit and ran, or screw someone etc, the person you PUT IT TO will be made whole.
Name, you want a Name? OK ... let's think long term here. I am open for suggestion but such things as Professional Coin Collectors' Coin Club is but one idea that I have thought of but that doesn't mean doddley squat. This will be run in a Professional manner as any other Democratic Type Organization is run, by Majority Vote.
These are my thoughts as of this time and if you'll excuse me, I believe I'll turn in for a while but by ALL MEANS DO FEEL FREE TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS.
It's now almost a quarter to 7 in the Morning and I have had enough for one day.
Until later boys. The Floor is hereby open for discussion!
Let me see if I can manage at least a couple hours nap.
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
Randy
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
The thought is that everyone has to give a representative of this club (BOOM?) a phone number......not to be given out or used for any other purpose but to call if a trade has not been delivered in the amount of time specified.
Sometime computers do creash & there's no way of contacting the other party other than this board.
Just a thought.
<< <i>a phone number......not to be given out or used for any other purpose but to call if a trade has not been delivered in the amount of time specified. >>
I think that is a great idea.
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
I AM MAKING IT A REQUIREMENT. EVERYONE WILL PROVIDE ME and my SECOND, with your personal, VERIFIABLE contact information or YOU simply will NOT be allowed to participate in any swaps conducted by this Club. The NEWBIES do it and I do not have any Nonsense out of them therefore it will be this way for ALL MEMBERS OF THIS CLUB, FOR THE GOOD OF THE WHOLE.
THIS IS MANDATE -
Club Charter BYLAW #1 EVERYONE IS TO PROVIDE ME WITH HIS OR HER REAL NAME, ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER ALONG WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES WHICH WILL ALL BE VERIFIED BY ME PERSONALLY, held in the strictest of confidence unless left no option but to OUT any Bad eggs.
LET'S MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE READS AND UNDERSTANDS THIS.
We are going to build a strong foundation, one that is solid and enforceable therefore with this will come the appointment of a Second, as well as an assistant to the Second, to work with me along with other Officers. Each and every Officer WILL have certain duties to perform (yet to be discussed).
The SECOND and his or her assistant will be chosen by ME and will be changed RANDOMLY and REGULARLY so that ALL have a chance to do so. This topic is NOT open for discussion. THE PARTY IS OVER. I am making it this way, at present, FOR A REASON. NO ONE lives forever and if we are going to take this seriously everyone needs to have experience under their belt so that all members are familiar with the workings of this Club so that when the day comes to pass the torch to the next Generation, it will be done in a smooth, professional manner.
We are going to clean up this fiasco and form a well run organization. NO MORE BS.
IF ANYONE WANTS TO BE THE CLUB SECRETARY, LET HIM OR HER SPEAK UP SO THAT THE MEMBERS THUS FAR CAN VOICE THEIR APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL. The Secretay's position should be rather obvious. They MUST BE VERY GOOD at Book Keeping/ the keeping of Archival records.
IN THE EVENT MORE THAN 1 PERSON WANT THIS POSITION IT WILL THEN BE PUT TO A VOTE. THE SECRETARY WILL BE THE PERSON THAT HAS THE MASTER LIST (AS WILL I). His or her duties will include but not be limited to keeping record of every swaps' partners as well as reports of each swap's progress. This is by NO MEANS a Dictatorship but for the time being I will choose my Second and also decide randomly, when to relieve this person from his or her appointed duties. THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU JUMP UP AND VOLUNTEER TO BE SECRETARY.
We are going to have to build a strong foundation, one that is enforceable therefore with this will come the appointment of a Second along with other Officers. Each and every Officer WILL have certain duties to perform. (yet to be discussed).
There will be the payment of dues that will be discussed in great length I am sure, (A SURETY) against any and all UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR by any member. ( As IN THE PRESENT SITUATION) If a certain amount of time lapses and said member KEEPS what was sent and vanishes or otherwise repeatedly conducts himself in a problematic, unethical fashion, thereby not leaving his swap partner anything, said member shall forfeit the amount to be set and shall be barred from membership until the situation is rectified, his mate made whole and pays his SURETY again!
IT MUST BE THIS WAY. It's the ONLY WAY to make sure that people do not get shafted around here EVER AGAIN! This will HAVE to BE an amount that will make people think TWICE before screwing someone over. If EVER said member wants OUT THE CLUB, he or she will then be refunded his dues, provided there are no extenuating circumstances. Does this make sense and sound acceptable to all?
I want to nip something in the Bud, right now regarding this very issue so as NOT to cause any conflicts in the foreseeable future. IF THE MEMBER DOES GET AWARDED THE OTHER MEMBER'S SURETY, it shall be his responsibility to HOLD said money for a designated period of time in the event said member does have a valid reason and happens to surface with the goods, in which case, the funds shall be returned to the Club's Treasurer and the member's account so credited. All funds shall be returned to all members upon departure or until WE, AS A UNIT, DECIDE BY MAJORITY VOTE TO DO OTHERWISE. Right here I am projecting down the road thinking of endless possiblities to help immortalize this Club and it's Membership.
People, I have been laying down Common Sense rules from the time I stepped in. Swap after swap, I have repeatedly said that it is all about common courtesy AND COMMUNICATION. Just REMEMBER THAT YOU ALL WANTED IT THIS WAY. WE HAVE ALL HAD OUR FREE REIGN AND IT DOES NOT WORK. PERSONALLY, I HAVE ENOUGH SERIOUS BUSINESS TO ATTEND TO IN MY LIFE WITHOUT HAVING TO MEDIATE NONSENSICAL BEHAVIOR BETWEEN GROWN ADULT HUMAN BEINGS!!
If you all will excuse me, I have been fighting this computer for several hours as evidenced by the Time of my Post.
I am calling it a night for now. If I have misspelled any words, GET OVER IT. TO BE CONTINUED....
Chat amongst yourselves. Voice you lines of thinking. All I want and expect from this Club is the BEST it has to offer. If this must be established in this manner, rest assure it IS for the good of the entire Assembly. We are already members of the PCGS Collectors Club but with this, we now become a Club within a Club with Officers and Bylaws. If you cannot hack it
It may sound tough but I assure you that it will NOT BE if we all just conduct ourselves as we should have all along. So far the only differences will be the collection of refundable Surities therby forcing and insuring ACCOUNTABILITY, the election/ appointment of Officers & the keeping of immaculate records. ANYBODY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS?
IF SO, SPEAK UP. The Floor is OPEN. With one eye shut I am almost certain to be back to edit this later today.
Might as well start now.........
This is supposed to be fun.
I understand the thought behind this & even though it makes sense, I don't know if I want $50, $100 or more (some of us make large $$ trades) tied up just for the opportunity to swap coins.
I'm sure we currently make suggestions on what we want & need, but in the end we might end up with more dupes...or LOTS of low end coins instead of 1 nice one......and that's OK by me, because there's no strings attached other than the value of the swap. Am I wrong here? Should I send swaps back just because I have the coin(s)?
I do the best I can, but I'm not going to go into my registry set just to swap.
Having to pay a dues (SURETY) changes all that (IMO).
Now I have money tied up for the priviledge of swapping.
If, after a few swaps I keep getting dupes, I think I would start questioning why I have money tied up just to receive dupes. I understand I'm counting chicken before they hatch, but it is a possibility.
What if the surety is $50, and I get left holding the bag on a $200 swap?
Do we now have tiered swappers? 'John' is cleared to make a $200 swap; 'Joe' is cleared to make a $50 swap?
What about newbie's & YN who may not have the money to spare? Or look at the surety and decide they would rather not have to pay.
The club can take an elitist position on this, but without new blood, swapping with the same players will get tiresome.
Just some thoughts.
as far as teirs go? I think that a $100.00 swap,or a $50.00 should be laid down or discussed between swappers before any trades begin ,and maybe even a monthly $25.00 for the young or new collectors who do not have a large collection or the funds to go the higher limit
over and over it is said this is supposed to be fun. I will support any ideas,guidelines ,bylaws,dues,etc,etc.
I want this to a fun place for everyone to have a good trade .MoJo
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
I think collecting contact information (and verifying it) is a great idea and must be implemented. However, if a monthly due is required than unfortunately I would not be participating because as soon as this hobby becomes a committment to XX dollars a month than it loses it's excitement. A system similar to how it's run now is how I would prefer to participate in the swaps. If everyone has their verified contact information on "file" then I think that will weed out most of the bad apples, after all who in their right minds would want to receive that dreaded phone call fom Boom demanding to know why you haven't lived up to your end of the swap. A requirement I would be in favor of would be follow up posts detailing what each swap participant received and a ranking. This ranking within the group could add a little bit of excitment when your swap partner is announced and they've had nothing but great swaps.
I'm aware of a couple of issues that Boom has been dealing with and the fact that he continues to participate (and dictate
Millertime
Complete Dime Set
Here we have an established veteran that comes on here, acknowledges receipt of items, acknowledges the fact that he is way late, offers a reasonable explanation as to why that is and promises ( 8-9 days ago) THAT HE WOULD GET ITEMS OUT TO HIS PARTNER ASAP, THAT SHOULD HAVE LONG SINCE BEEN FINISHED BUSINESS, BUT HAS FAILED TO DO SO. WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY?
I'll step back here and listen to what everyone has to say and will also listen as to how YOU would run this in a manner that would STOP this kind of bulls#!+ from taking place.
I am thinking out loud about some of some sort of deterrent, some way to at least PARTIALLY compensate Torino. The money would be held by the Treasurer and would be a one time set of "DUES" that is basically hels "in escrow", refundable when said swapper no longer cares to be a member of the Club. THIS IS NOT MONEY THAT WOULD BE SPENT, IT IS SIMPLY ASSURANCE AGAINST SUCH ACTIVITY. WHAT ELSE CAN YOU POSSIBLY DO TO DETER SUCH ACTION?
In this case Kingpin forfeits his "DUES" until he makes Torino whole, in which case if and when Kinpin FINALLY gets off his duff and puts his hands on coins of similar value, puts them in an envelope and sends them to Torino. When HE DOES make Torino whole, Torino then returns the "DEPOSIT" to the Treasurer, it goes back into the "Escrow Account" but the member will have a mark on his permanent record ( for a probationary period) that would be expunged if there are no more incidents during said Probationary period. If such an action indeed transpires AGAIN during this time frame, the member would then be held accountable and could quite possibly face expulsion from THE CLUB and loses his DEPOSIT.
This is about having an assurance agains delinquent or derelict swappers and it must be enough $ to actually HURT to lose thereby INSURING no such Delinquency transpires again. Something HAS to be done.
IF ANYONE has a better idea, a better way of handling this scenario then go ahead and speak up now.
As for having Duplicates, gimme a break aija. All you need to do is place the dupes aside and use them in a future swap!
I want to step back and LISTEN to what others have to say... HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE THIS? What would YOU propose as a deterrent against morbidly delinquent swappers or hit and run swappers? How would you ENFORCE your Policy and see to it that a swapper does not conduct himself in any way other than a common sense, ethical manner? IN THE REAL WORLD THIS IS THEFT. We have one pissed off swapper on one hand and on the other we have one that now has another man's property, has not sent OUT. How DO YOU PROPOSE TO DEAL WITH THIS? What ACTION would YOU take?
<< <i>Boom, I would very much like to be included in any bylaws created. >>
OK, no problem. I log in, see that you are logged in (Your light was on) sent you a PM (light stays on for a while and then OFF) and no answer to my PM. What's up aija. Do you want to be included (this goes for everyone else as well) or not?
OK this is what i propose to end the one guy getting screwed
1)Everybody send coins out insured and delivery confirmation or signature confirmation. That way everybody pays the same shipping costs.
This way no one can complain of getting screwed when there is a record of you getting or not getting them.
I must say that idea of dues really sucks!!!!!
2) Everybody that participates in swaps must send the mediator of future swaps(Boom) a coin or coins as a hold for if someone gets screwed these coins of that trade value can be sent to that person to satisfy the screwers trade. Say $40 value in coins, less for young people. 10 people in swap would mean $400 in mediator account of coins. "we all would need to trust mediator of course"
No one under the age of 18 without parental knowledge of trades
3) in the event of someone screwing someone in a trade they shall be booted from future trades and coin that they sent in will be forfited to the swap. "Everybody has something to lose then"
4) Anybody BOOTED will not be allowed to participate in any future swaps
5)If you no longer want to participate in swaps you will get your coin back or one of similar value. Then your name will be taken off of the swap list.
if there are no coins in mediator account, EVERYBODY shall Give some more coins to help out
6) To begin swapping again you will need to send in a coin or coins to the mediator before you will be allowed to swap again.
I must say this really sucks that we have to do this!!!!!!!!!
That is my 2 cents
Jim
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
I am not looking for anything from anyone, well except KINGPIN that is. If I dont get anything. So be it, I GOT SCREWED. It has happened to me before..... I will survive. But my BOOM Swap Participation rate sux, I am only 2 outta 3. I am sure it will Improve !
Hey BOOM, you doing a lot of brain stormin man!
TorinoCobra71
There is certainly an element of trust in these swaps and a big part of that trust is knowing that people have been approved so to speak. I don’t worry about losing 50 bucks. But if I do then that person should be removed from swapping. Those that have stiffed their partner should be named. This swap club should have a blacklist and the list should be made public. It is up to you to prove that you are a worthy participant. I would see the current situation with Torino and his partner as grounds for immediate blacklisting.
The feedback must be a post from each participant with someone independently keeping score from each swap. After each swap a scorecard could then be posted awarding points for each successful transaction. The current scorecard could then be the first post of each new proposed swap. Those that do not post follow-ups should then be ineleigible for the next swap. The follow-up is important and is how you really develop the swap community.
It seems that I don’t need to be protected from newbies near as much as I need to be protected from some of the veterans. ALL participants should provide their complete info to the club moderator(AKA Boom). I provided mine. We are on the right track by discussing these issues openly and all we really need here is a mechanism to weed out the evildoers.
I do like Musky1011’s idea of a coin deposit bank. I think this would help provide a level of insurance for those who fear losing out. I am not in favor of dues. I believe that would be hard to administer.
These are some of my thoughts about swapping. What little I have done I have enjoyed and I would hate to see this be thwarted in any way.
In other words, if my computer is on I'm logged on but not neccessarily watching this site.in fact I need to minimize before somebody walks by & asks what I'm doing!
Jeffs
OK...regarding all this that is keeping me from REAL business that I need to attend to ...Let's hear some proposals.
SO MANY PEOPLE COME CRYING TO ME THAT SOMETHING ( NOT SMOETHING) HAS GOT TO BE DONE. AGREED?
I listened once, and I was there when you asked.
You have asked again for some help. Here is my suggestion.
For the most part the group that swaps here on this board are good folks- I think the Surety idea will drive folks away, and in all reality- one of us Could drop dead tomorrow- not all of us are youngins.
i have only had 1 BAD experience, with personal information exchanged between each swap partner- there should be at least 2 phone calls made- 1 to each other- this for me insures TRUST. NO CELL PHONES- it has to be a HOME number, if you want to give a cell as a backup- that is cool- but RELIABILITY is key to what we are trying to establish here.
Any YN's must have their parents consent in writing and a copy will be on file with the person who is running the swap- sorry Boom- it falls into your lap on this one. email letters of approval are no good.
SWAP PARTNERS SET THE LIMIT OF THE SWAP- PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
I'm not poor, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try and pull the trigger on a ms66 55ddo for a swap! KMA baby!
SET A TIME LIMIT ON THE SWAP. This is so simple - if the pair have an agreed swap $$ amount and any specialities for there Registry set or for a Dansco- COME TO AN AGREED TYPE- RAW OR SLABBED.
I have a few other ideas-, but the wife sez my dinner is ready. I hate cold cat food..
I'll be back later.
I DO NOT regret sharing the particulars of my life with all of you. In fact, I think maybe you SHOULD all know.
Remember that saying about adversity building character?
OK, so can the surety/ dues thing. Like I said, I have put this all before you so that you may all help decide how to run this hodge-podge of humanity.
There is plenty enough stress in the real world without making our coin swaps a bad experience.
Wow. What the old saying? "When it rains, it pours". Sounds like you've had a tough ride over the last year or so.
Having said that, I'll take on some of your stress. I need to make sure that I understand what being the Club Secretary means
first. I think I already know, but I just want to make sure before I make a commitment.
Here is what I think about many of the posts:
1. First, what tools do we have at our disposal? Who pays for this site? Is there another static site that we could link to?
If so, we could setup a login there and have a feedback forum, list of rules, posted pics and other things I've thought about.
2. Yes. We need a Club Name, officers and By-laws.
3. Yes. Club Charter BYLAW #1 - EVERYONE IS TO PROVIDE ME WITH HIS OR HER REAL NAME, ADDRESS, GENDER AND HOME PHONE
NUMBER ALONG WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES WHICH WILL ALL BE VERIFIED BY ME PERSONALLY, held in the strictest of confidence
unless left no option but to OUT any Bad eggs.
4. Yes. I think we need some Surety money (such as $20 for the $20 level below) from each member to ensure that swaps work out properly.
5. Yes. I think we need Tiers or Levels for trades. I know there are some wealthy folks trading here. I've had to pass on several
trades because I could not afford them. We could have a $10, $20, $50, $100, $250, $500 and above trades. This information
should also be part of the member's info. (i.e. if you sign up and have a $20 dollar trade level, you can't go for a $500 trade
unless it's been okayed by the Administrator.)
6. No. I don't think we need monthly dues. What would the dues be used for?
7. Yes. There should be a dispute resolution mechanism. Some missing trades could be legitimate.
(e.g. You are hospitalized or a family member is hospitalized. You may not get back to look at a computer for several days...)
8. Yes. The club's guidelines/rules/bylaws should be posted so that they can be reviewed from time to time.
9. >I want to nip something in the Bud, right now regarding this very issue so as NOT to cause any conflicts in the foreseeable future.
>IF THE MEMBER DOES GET AWARDED THE OTHER MEMBER'S SURETY, it shall be his responsibility to HOLD said money
>for a designated period of time in the event said member does have a valid reason and happens to surface with the goods, in which
>case, the funds shall be returned to the Club's Treasurer and the member's account so credited. All funds shall be returned to all
>members upon departure or until WE, AS A UNIT, DECIDE BY MAJORITY VOTE TO DO OTHERWISE. Right here I am projecting
>down the road thinking of endless possiblities to help immortalize this Club and it's Membership.
No. I disagree with this point. The Surety money should be held for a predetermined amount of time. When the money is awarded,
the transaction has been completed. Closed. Done.
Finally, I empathize with your personal losses. I'm assuming you live in LA. Can you have a friend watch your house while you're gone?
If you lived nearby, I'd watch it just to catch the scumbags.
Let me know what you think...
-------------------------
Good trades with: DaveN, Tydye, IStillLikeZARCoins, Fjord, Louie, BRdude
Good buys from: LordMarcovan, Aethelred, Ajaan, PrivateCoinCollector, LindeDad, Peaceman, Spoon, DrJules, jjrrww
Good sale to: Nicholasz219
What better way to accomplish this than making them have something of set value in escrow?
Jim
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
I am welcoming any and everyone's input here.
We have a situation that MUST be dealt with and be made enforceable.
Aija, you asked to be involved. I'm listening.
This is OUR Club and if we want it to survive and prosper something must be done.
This thing with Ray has caught me like a suckerpunch and still has me reeling.
I STILL believe in him as he has NO PRIOR HISTORY of unethical behavior.....
at least not that I am aware of. This is why I have repeatedly asked swappers to post
how their swaps TRULY WENT DOWN. I REPEAT, NO SWAP shall be declared consumated
until both parties post their true feelings and iron out their differences before doing so.
Let NO ONE come crying to me AFTER they have posted that all went well.
If there is a problem that cannot be resolved simply return each others' items.
Every one that has come to me for help received it. I sat as unbiased and impartially
as possible and heard each others' versions and after weighing all factors, I rendered a decision.
If we remain as we are I ask each and every last one of you,
"What measures should be in place to make whole the non recipient
and what and HOW do we enforce penalties other than having either money a deposit on hold of
something actually worth a minimum of $50?"
Yes, a roster complete with contact information that will be verified, will be had by me and an appointed
member OR members at large randonly chosen as well as randonly switched out. I believe that NO ONE
other than myself should perhaps know who this "Insider" should be.
There obviously should be an appointed or elected Secretary that is also privy to said info and to keep
running records of all members' behavior. (A Rating system, if you will.)
People simply CANNOT BE ALOWED TO STEAL OTHER PERSONS' BELONGINGS WITHOUT BEING MADE TO PAY
FOR THEM IN ONE FASHION OR ANOTHER. THEFT OF ANY KIND CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
KINGFISH HAS SOME EXPLAINING TO DO AND IF HE IS HALF THE MAN I BELIEVE HIM TO BE, HE WILL STEP FORWARD
EXPLAIN WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND EITHER RETURN TORINO'S COINS OR SEND THE ONES HE WAS SUPPOSED TO.
I'm not too sure many will go for sending in coins as escrow. But, I think a good insurance would be to verify all members via valid addresses. You provide your address and home phone # to Boom (or whomever is selected for this) a letter is sent to you from Boom w/ some type of question, and you respond from that address with the correct answer (just to verify your receipt of the letter). I think most scammers would back out at the point of having to provide their real address...Same with the phone # as most are easily verified via the internet if they're not unlisted, or simply by calling and speaking with the person. By speaking with the person, you can get an idea if they're are a YN or not also....
Sorry if these measures have been mentioned already...
One other thing:
When all the above is hashed out and swapping commences, I think it would be great if we add to the post what we like to collect. Perhaps it would make it easier for Boom to select trading partners for that particular swap....JMO