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1983 cent struck on Bronze Planchet 3.10 grams

Some on this forum know that I search just about every day, or at least as often as I can of circulated cent rolls obtained from local banks in the hopes of finding varieties. To put it simple, if its a coin and its in my possession, I examine it. But in addition to that -- there are also certain things I am keying on. Specifically, there is a certain year (whether Philly or Denver business strike) that I have had a long time suspicion this could happen -- and that year is 1983.

I came across this 1983 Lincoln cent today out of circulated rolls. It is not a doubled die, neither obverse or the reverse. Care to take a guess what's wrong with the coin? Here's a hint: think about the 1989-D and/or 1990-D Lincoln cents.

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Comments

  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,740 ✭✭✭
    close AM?
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • Struck on a bronze planchet?


  • << <i>Struck on a bronze planchet? >>



    Well -- that didn't take long!
  • Do I win it?.........image
  • joefrojoefro Posts: 1,885 ✭✭
    Not sure but that sure is a nice looking 83 from a circulated roll! If you finally found what you are looking for you're lucky to have found it in such a nice specimen!
    Lincoln Cent & Libertad Collector
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Struck on a bronze planchet? >>



    Well -- that didn't take long! >>



    Is it Billy ?
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • coinman420coinman420 Posts: 4,733
    maybe its the photo but it looks like the color of copper to me. wouldn`t bronze have a more yellow or golden color?
    my ebay items BST transactions/swaps/giveaways with: Tiny, raycyca,mrpaseo, Dollar2007,Whatafind, Boom, packers88, DBSTrader2, 19Lyds, Mar327, pontiacinf, ElmerFusterpuck.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Struck on a bronze planchet? >>



    Well -- that didn't take long! >>



    Is it Billy ? >>



    Its weight is 3.10
  • What tipped you off to check the weight?
    Joe
    CONECA #N-3446


  • << <i>What tipped you off to check the weight? >>



    Hmmm ... excellent question! I guess my hint didn't go over very well.

    In Issue #12 of Mint Error News published by Mike Byers -- that issue illustrates a 1989-D Lincoln cent and 1990-D Lincoln cent that both are struck on pre-1983 transitional bronze planchets. Though Mike's error newsletter was not the main keying factor, because I always suspected this could happen during 1983 since 1982 was a MAJOR transitional year for metal content of planchets. 1983 begins the completed transition to copper-plated zinc with weight of 2.5g plus or minus. Since Mike Byers error newsletter showed that this had happened in 1989 and 1990, why not even more so for 1983 since that year directly follows the MAJOR transitional year. In my searching, I always key on transitional years. Not just for metal content, but also design changes. It was only just recently the 1992 Philly cent was located with the Type-I (Close AM) or also known as 1992 cent with reverse of 1993. Why not 1983 with a 3.1 planchet being lodged in a bin and then somehow dislodge and be struck in 1983? This doesn't set a precedent since it had already happened with the 1989-D and 1990-D cents?

    I have weighed every 1983 P and D cent for years now.

    edited for spelling
  • coinman420coinman420 Posts: 4,733
    would this be bronze?

    image

    image


    this lincoln is definately not copper colored, very bronze color.
    my ebay items BST transactions/swaps/giveaways with: Tiny, raycyca,mrpaseo, Dollar2007,Whatafind, Boom, packers88, DBSTrader2, 19Lyds, Mar327, pontiacinf, ElmerFusterpuck.
  • coinman420coinman420 Posts: 4,733
    image
    my ebay items BST transactions/swaps/giveaways with: Tiny, raycyca,mrpaseo, Dollar2007,Whatafind, Boom, packers88, DBSTrader2, 19Lyds, Mar327, pontiacinf, ElmerFusterpuck.
  • Weigh it...really the best way to tell, coinman420....
  • coinman420coinman420 Posts: 4,733
    i`ll have to track down a scale. thanks. if a lincoln is made from a bronze planchet is there any value? would it be considered a true error?
    my ebay items BST transactions/swaps/giveaways with: Tiny, raycyca,mrpaseo, Dollar2007,Whatafind, Boom, packers88, DBSTrader2, 19Lyds, Mar327, pontiacinf, ElmerFusterpuck.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Utterly fantastic!!!

    It just goes to show how many treasures are in circulation.
    Tempus fugit.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats Billy, That is a major scoreimage
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • "Utterly fantastic!!! It just goes to show how many treasures are in circulation."


    "Congrats Billy, That is a major score"


    Thanks Cladking and JRocco. I was up to almost $600 in searching and hadn't found anything -- not even a minor something. Then today, not only did I come across this '83 cent, but also came across the 1994 1c FS-039.9/CONECA 1-R-IV (already put it up for auction), two different 2006 1c DDO's and a 1993 1c with a DDR that I have never seen before that I have to shoot photos on. Some days -- it finally catches up I guess and just goes right.
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭✭
    This is way cool. Have you contacted Coin World (etc) yet? This is the sort of thing that they'd probably put on the front page...

    coinman420: 1977 cents are supposed to be on bronze planchets. If yours weighs significantly different than 3.11 grams (3.09 doesn't count as significant), then it would definitely be worth something -- probably in the range of a few hundred dollars. My guess is that it weighs what it's supposed to.

    jonathan
  • coinman420...

    I bought one of these from this seller, recently. Accurate and a fantastic price! And, fast delivery.

    EBay Scale Link
    Joe
    CONECA #N-3446
  • We need an error forum on Collectors Universe!
    Joe
    CONECA #N-3446


  • << <i>This is way cool. Have you contacted Coin World (etc) yet? This is the sort of thing that they'd probably put on the front page...

    coinman420: 1977 cents are supposed to be on bronze planchets. If yours weighs significantly different than 3.11 grams (3.09 doesn't count as significant), then it would definitely be worth something -- probably in the range of a few hundred dollars. My guess is that it weighs what it's supposed to.

    jonathan >>




    ok, didn`t know 1977 were on bronze planchet. if this weighs different what does that mean? wrong planchet?

    i learn here everyday image
    my ebay items BST transactions/swaps/giveaways with: Tiny, raycyca,mrpaseo, Dollar2007,Whatafind, Boom, packers88, DBSTrader2, 19Lyds, Mar327, pontiacinf, ElmerFusterpuck.
  • Nice find imageWhat is the value of this kind of error?
    image

    1997 Matte Nickel strike thru U
    "Error Collector- I Love Dem Crazy Coins"
    "Money, what is money? It is loaned to a man; he comes into the world with nothing and he leaves with nothing." Billy Durant. Founder of General Motors. He died a pauper.
  • Fantastic find... Pretty nice looking from a circ roll.
    Chris Clauson


  • << <i>Nice find imageWhat is the value of this kind of error? >>



    I have no friggin idea as to value. The two 1989-D cents and one 1990-D cent that were struck on bronze planchets and illustrated in Mint Error News, as far as I can research, don't indicate any sales of those errors that would help in providing a ballpark guide.

    However, my cost of the 1983 -- one cent.
  • RWRW Posts: 486


    << <i>However, my cost of the 1983 -- one cent. >>




    That pretty much sums up the thrill of the hunt. Congrats on a great find!
  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Billy, congratulations on an astonishing find. To think that it came out of circulation 23 years after the fact is mind-boggling.

    I probably know the answer, but have you also been looking for a 1982-D small date on a copper planchet? The way the transitions were handled on the cents in 1982 I can't believe that one hasn't been found yet - two different date styles, two different planchet types, known in every possible combination... except one. Just as you were convinced the 1983 transitional must exist, so am I convinced that the 1982-D small date must exist on a copper planchet.

    Lastly - do you mind if I post your find to another error coin forum?


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • "Billy, congratulations on an astonishing find. To think that it came out of circulation 23 years after the fact is mind-boggling."

    Interestingly, this 1983 cent did not come out of a $25 box of circulated rolls. When I went to my bank to get some more $25 boxes of cents, the teller also told me she had gotten $10 worth of cents that morning from a lady customer. The teller asked if I wanted those rolls too and of course I forked over $10 immediately. This $10 hand-wrapped cents was different from what one would normally see in a recent $25 sealed box of cents. There were no 1990 to present dated coins in that $10. The dates were predominately 1980s with a few late 1970s. There were a lot of 83s, 84s, 85s, etc., that were in the rolls with not all, but quite a few of them being BU. I can only guess that these coins had been sitting in some jar or jug or something for many years and somebody finally decided to wrap them up and take em to the bank. I have learned through my many years of searching circulated rolls from banks -- that there are two times of the year that are the most opportune to acquire rolls. That being summer and just before the holidays. With summer, more people wrap and take coins to the bank for extra vacation "mad money" or they take their coins to Coinstar machines. With the holidays, again people dump more to have extra spending money for buying gifts.

    "I probably know the answer, but have you also been looking for a 1982-D small date on a copper planchet? The way the transitions were handled on the cents in 1982 I can't believe that one hasn't been found yet - two different date styles, two different planchet types, known in every possible combination... except one. Just as you were convinced the 1983 transitional must exist, so am I convinced that the 1982-D small date must exist on a copper planchet.

    Yep -- looking for that one too!

    Lastly - do you mind if I post your find to another error coin forum?

    Not at all. Do your thing.


  • << <i>Nice find imageWhat is the value of this kind of error? >>



    rich: I was able to do some more research and did come across the two 1989-D 1c (one was double struck on bronze planchet) and the other 1989-D 1c just struck on bronze planchet and the 1990-D 1c struck on bronze planchet at Mike Byers Web site.

    The 1989-D 1c double struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ICG MS 63/RB at $25,000.

    The 1989-D 1c struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ANACS MS 64/Red at $15,000 and

    The 1990-D 1c struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ICG AU 58 at $15,000.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Billy, now that the guessing game is over, you should change the title of this thread so it wil attract more of the big error guys in the forum. This is an important find that deserves more attention.

    FYI, Mike Byers already replied in the other error coin forum, according to him the 1989-D and 1990-D transitionals you saw on his web site also came from a collector searching bags of Lincoln cents. Makes me want to start checking (and weighing) my change again.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 4,952 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I recently purchased the finest known (of three)

    1983 Jeff. Nickel, Struck on a Copper Cent Planchet (3.1 grams/48 grains).

    It's PCGS MS-65 Red, and a Full Date showing ! Called a "Transitional Off-Metal"


    Billy's Transitional Cent is a beauty for sure...........


    Fred
    Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV.
    Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 42 +-Year PNG Member, and an ICTA Board Member.A full time coin dealer since 1972.


  • << <i>I recently purchased the finest known (of three)

    1983 Jeff. Nickel, Struck on a Copper Cent Planchet (3.1 grams/48 grains).

    It's PCGS MS-65 Red, and a Full Date showing ! Called a "Transitional Off-Metal"


    Billy's Transitional Cent is a beauty for sure...........


    Fred >>



    WOW!!!! Have you got a pic to share of that bad boy Fred? image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These could prove to be extremely valuable in the long run. Varieties and the like are
    getting far more interesting and there will be more found as more people start watching
    circulating coinage. Demand may never catch up with the kind of demand for old US coins
    but you have to believe it can approach it.
    Tempus fugit.
  • TWQGTWQG Posts: 3,244
    Neat find.
  • OffMetalOffMetal Posts: 1,781
    DV, you friggin suck, suck suck suck suck

    YOU FIGGIN SUCK!! image

    I'm glad your patience paid off!
    -Ben T. * Collector of Errors! * Proud member of the CUFYNA
  • <<However, my cost of the 1983 -- one cent. >>

    What about your TIME??? Sorry but....
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,639
    Actually the 1977 cent is brass not bronze. The cent was struck on brass planchets from 1963 to md 1982. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. 1962 was the last year that tin was included. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. (If it has tin in the alloy it is considered to be bronze even if it has zinc as well, and even if it has more zinc than tin.)

    It is wierd but todays cent could be considered to be pure copper plated onto 2% copper 98% zinc brass core.)
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,831 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<However, my cost of the 1983 -- one cent. >>

    What about your TIME??? Sorry but.... >>



    Obviously most collectors aren't in it for the profit and if you factor in the time, effort, heavy lifting,
    blood, sweat, and tears then very few do make a profit. Ironically it is the true collectors who tend
    to do best, and how much more "true collecting" can one do than looking through pocket change?
    Tempus fugit.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 4,348 ✭✭✭
    Wow that is an awesome find --Coin world front page news item---please wait until i find one before you notify them.image

    What about your TIME??? Sorry but....

    Your Free Time is just that---Free-you can do with it what you want...You can watch TV, sleep,walk the dog,ETC, OR look through coins hunting a treasure---(Thank God i dont have a dog and my kids are now grown and on their own! )image
    image


  • << <i>What about your TIME??? Sorry but.... >>



    Well, I'm sure Mr. Crawford is in this first and foremost for "the love of the game," but when you consider:



    << <i>The 1989-D 1c double struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ICG MS 63/RB at $25,000 >>





    << <i>The 1989-D 1c struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ANACS MS 64/Red at $15,000 >>

    and



    << <i>The 1990-D 1c struck on bronze planchet graded and encapsulated by ICG AU 58 at $15,000 >>



    It seems like should he sell he will be adequately compensated for his time.

    This puts me to mind of an exhibit at the first coin show I went to. It was a PCGS slabbed 1969 s DDO (I cant recall the exact grade, but I believe it was VF) cent accompanied by a hand written note on a torn piece of cardboard that said,

    "YES, I FOUND IT IN CHANGE. LAST OFFER REFUSED $30,000."
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,745 ✭✭✭
    I'm still blown away by this tremendous circulation find. Only a truly diligent searcher would EVER find this piece, but you suspected it might exist and you found it. Good for you, DV. I wonder how many collectors might have had this very coin pass through their hands. Or how many others might be out there in circulation right now.



    << <i>This puts me to mind of an exhibit at the first coin show I went to. It was a PCGS slabbed 1969 s DDO (I cant recall the exact grade, but I believe it was VF) cent accompanied by a hand written note on a torn piece of cardboard that said,

    "YES, I FOUND IT IN CHANGE. LAST OFFER REFUSED $30,000." >>



    Coindexter, I remember that exhibit at a PAN show. Strangest one I've ever seen to this day. It also had a copy of the Cherrypickers' Guide, opened to the 1969-S DDO page, with the slab laying on it (AU-58 I believe) next to that scrawled piece of cardboard.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • lloydmincy: You are correct -- a lot of time is involved in my searcing circulated coins. But, I'm having fun and at least to me that's the most important part of a hobby -- to have fun. Actually, I'm glad you feel that way. Your one less person joining the searching which allows more for me to find.

    For those very, very few collectors who do search circulated coinage, I hope this would be of encouragement for them to continue. Treasures are out there. The only thing I do know for certain -- is that I will never find anything if I don't look.

    As far as this '83 cent, I really don't consider it anything special. I knew it was out there and I firmly believe more are out there. Not just on the '83, but for any date post '82. The 89-D and 90-D prove that. As well as Fred Weinberg's 1983 Jeff struck on bronze planchet (3.1grams) also supports it. And Fred mentioned he acquired the best of three of them!

    However, if I would come across the '69-S or 70-S DDOs -- now I would consider that special. I believe the person who diligently searches circulated coinage and applies his/her knowledge and persistance -- is the only true, master cherrypicker! All others are just wannabees IMO.
  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭


    << <i>As far as this '83 cent, I really don't consider it anything special. I knew it was out there and I firmly believe more are out there. Not just on the '83, but for any date post '82. The 89-D and 90-D prove that. As well as Fred Weinberg's 1983 Jeff struck on bronze planchet (3.1grams) also supports it. And Fred mentioned he acquired the best of three of them! >>



    It's basically the equivalent of 1965 silver coins or 1964 clad coins, actual CuNi war nickels or silver 1946 nickels, and of course, the big ones, the 1943 bronze and 1944 steel cents. If you don't consider it special, I'd be happy to be entered in your giveaway.

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)
  • Thanks Billy for the info on your find , I have an original unopened roll of 83's ,I have to buy a scale now and start searching.Who knows ? image

    Learning something new here almost every day,Thanks to fellow collectors like yourself and others willing to share new discoveries.image



    << <i>We need an error forum on Collectors Universe! >>

    Yeah,Let me second the motion on that image
    image

    1997 Matte Nickel strike thru U
    "Error Collector- I Love Dem Crazy Coins"
    "Money, what is money? It is loaned to a man; he comes into the world with nothing and he leaves with nothing." Billy Durant. Founder of General Motors. He died a pauper.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    in light of the one found recently, figured i'd dig up this old thread from the likes of someone that has put in some serious time and effort to finding great coins

    the one in this thread being no exception!
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask!

  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.
    in light of the one found recently, figured i'd dig up this old thread from the likes of someone that has put in some serious time and effort to finding great coins

    the one in this thread being no exception!
    . >>



    Another one was found recently? Do you have a link to the story, I somehow missed it.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Another one was found recently? Do you have a link to the story, I somehow missed it.
    Sean Reynolds >>



    i am using recently loosely. i think the person had it for some time then just submitted it and if i remember correctly graded genuine without details and was slated to go to an auction later this year.

    something like that anyway. there was a thread about it here, but alas i cannot find it.

    i'm sure someone else may chime in with more details
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask!

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    i think this is one of the articles that the thread i am thinking of was linked to

    linkie dinkie
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask!

  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.
    i think this is one of the articles that the thread i am thinking of was linked to

    linkie dinkie
    . >>




    Excellent, thank you. I didn't go back through the entire old thread here but I recall Billy's coin was lost in a theft before it could be confirmed or authenticated by a third party, leading some to question the validity of the discovery. How very cool that six years later another was found.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • Have any more of these transitional errors turned up?

    To view the inventory at Harry Laibstain Rare Coins, visit us at HLRC.com
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Have any more of these transitional errors turned up? >>



    i know of 3 for the 1983 1c on 3.1g copper

    1 - p
    2 - d

    pretty sure those numbers are what i have listed
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask!

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