Clipped flowing hair half dollar?

xphobe

I liked the overall look of this, so I bought it. It doesn't really matter to me if the missing rim is damage or a clip, but the seller claims it is a clip. If it is, it looks like a straight clip - maybe this planchet was punched a little too close to the edge of the sheet.

I was wondering, were planchets back then upset the same way they are today, in a rolling mill? And if so, would they show the Blakesley effect I've read about here? And is it possible, even on a coin this worn, to determine whether the Blakesley effect might be responsible for the weakness of the date and rim directly opposite the "clip"?

Opinions?

These pix are the seller's. I'll try to take my own when it arrives but I doubt I'll do much better.



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Nysoto

Interesting, I have never seen a flowing hair half with a clip like that, so I am skeptical. All lettered edge bust half dollars 1794-1836 were put through a Castiang style edge lettering and rimming machine that put a thickened edge on the planchet prior to striking. I believe the thickened, work hardened edge also helped define the diameter on LE halves and dollars without the close collar. Those rare halves without edge lettering show flat rims and slightly larger diameter, as if broadstruck. Also, some halves show flat spots on the rim where the edge lettering missed a spot.

Yours is an early O.110a which normally shows a weak date in the later die state


If this is an edge clip, the opposite side would be totally absent of any edge lettering/symbols for the length of the clip, as the opposite side could not make it through the Castiang machine with an impression (similar to Blakesley). Go to a show and check your 1795 edge lettering with another, there are two types of edge lettering in 1795, so you should find the type that matches.

A good coin for the price even if it is damage, but there could be a possibility it is a clip, with a flat spot on the opposite side from absence of a thickened edge. The opposite side on the reverse is not as apparent, so I am leery.

The edge lettering will solve the mystery. If edge lettering is on the opposite side, its damage. If an edge clip, would be worth multiples of what you paid.

slumlord98

<< <i>Those rare halves without edge lettering show flat rims and slightly larger diameter, as if broadstruck. Also, some halves show flat spots on the rim where the edge lettering missed a spot. >>



Not always! Don't forget Logan's 1819 O.107. But I agree with you on this specimen. I've never seen a real clip like this. To top it off, it is so worn that the edge lettering may be worn to the point of not being able to tell conclusively whether it is clipped at the mint or elsewhere.

OffMetal

That would be an easy one to answer!!

Was sean-q bidding on it?

BillJones

I've never seen a Flowing Hair half dollar with a clip. I have my doubts if there ever were any. The reason I say that is that these coins were carefully weighed before they left the mint. Planchets that were too heavy had the excess metal filed off therefore creating adjustment marks. Planchets that were too light almost always got tossed back and melted although there are a few rare examples of early silver dollars that had a plug added to increase the weight.

My view is that this flat spot on the edge of this coin was placed there after the coin left the mint. The arc is not round enough to be from the planchet punch, which means the only way it could be genuine would be if it were an end of the metal strip clip. It just does not look like that to me because of its curved shape.



<< <i>I was wondering, were planchets back then upset the same way they are today, in a rolling mill? >>



Planchets were not upset in those days as they are now. It was one of the reasons why early U.S. coin did not wear well in circulation. There was very little rim to protect the designs. It did not take a lot of wear on some pieces for the rim to wear into the tops of the letters.

seanq

<< <i>That would be an easy one to answer!!

Was sean-q bidding on it? >>



Heheh, I can't afford Flowing Hair Half Dollars.

I'm not optimistic about the coin pictured, the irregular shape of the clip makes me think damage. Maybe it's just the pictures, but the clip looks straight onthe obverse face and curved on the reverse, a true clip sholdn't change planes like that. Also, wasn't the Mint a real sitckler about planchet weight back then? I doubt an underweight coin would have been released. By all means check the edge as others have advised, but I think you'll find your coin was "clipped" in a more traditional manner, by someone nicking a bit of silver.


Sean Reynolds

xphobe

Bad news: not a clip.

Exhibit A - edge lettering is clear and even all the way around (except for where the metal is missing of course).


Exhibit B - As BillJones noted, 'clip' is straight on one side and curved on the other. In fact, it has a rough edge with many different angled facets. It's been hacked off.


I know my photo skills suck. But my pic shows the diagnostic O-110 double die break quite clearly. Not as early a die state as we thought.

Finally, it's been cleaned and has retoned. Coins this old and worn just don't have those iridescent reds and blues.

Oh well, it's not perfect, but I like it. This is exactly the kind of thing I collect.

Thanks to you all for your advice!