Mariano Rivera

Jersey

People speak about him like he's a god and can do no wrong. But, he's had some ugly blown saves, including in the post-season.

LWMM

Your point?

Jersey

I'm not trying to make a point. I'm just blowing off a little steam from having to listen to Mike Francessa and Yankee fans always raving about the guy.

ToppsCo1lector

But his accomplishments outweigh his mistakes. The most consistent closer for atleast the past decade. Hoffman, Wagner, and Percival are to be mentioned as well. Who wouldnt have liked to see this guy as your favorites teams closer?

joestalin

Soriano owns him!

WeekendHacker

The Red Sox own him as well, did you see him get a standing ovation last year on opening day at Fenway Park - that was classic!! However, I must admit, any Yankee fan who boo's Mariano needs to check their true status as a Yankee fan. I am a Red Sox fan, and even though Damon crossed the line and went to 'the dark side' I can't boo the guy - he is a big reason the Sox beat out the Yankees in 2004 and got the Sox into position to win the WS. ToppsCo1lector is right on the money, infact he understated Mariano whose accomplishments far, far, far outweigh his mistakes. Without him, the Yankees wouldn't have won all those titles in the 90's - they may not have even made it to the WS.

Axtell

<< <i>But his accomplishments outweigh his mistakes. The most consistent closer for atleast the past decade. Hoffman, Wagner, and Percival are to be mentioned as well. Who wouldnt have liked to see this guy as your favorites teams closer? >>



So Arod gets hammered for being in a slump, but Rivera gets a pass, even though Arod been a highly, highly productive hitter for the past decade.

Yankee fans are hypocrites.

CardCoreCollector

So Arod gets hammered for being in a slump, but Rivera gets a pass, even though Arod been a highly, highly productive hitter for the past decade.

Rivera has been a major part of winning 4 Championships

Arod has not

Thats the reason for the pass

Dave

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>So Arod gets hammered for being in a slump, but Rivera gets a pass, even though Arod been a highly, highly productive hitter for the past decade.

Rivera has been a major part of winning 4 Championships

Arod has not

Thats the reason for the pass

Dave >>



I think actually A-rod has NEVER been part of a World Series???

bri2327

<< <i>People speak about him like he's a god and can do no wrong. But, he's had some ugly blown saves, including in the post-season. >>




Yeah you are totally right. Over the last 10 years he should have save 100% of the games he entered. He stinks and has cost the Yankees probably a dozen or so games over the 10 year span. If only they could get their hands on Billy Wagner, now THEN we would have something.

hardcorehockeyfan

Mariano is a solid reliever, I would take him over Todd Jones, but in no way can he be mention above the name of Trevor Hoffman. It matters not who was on winning teams, who won championships, whatever, Hoffman has been just as good if not better than Mariano over the same span of time!

hardcorehockeyfan

<< <i>

<< <i>But his accomplishments outweigh his mistakes. The most consistent closer for atleast the past decade. Hoffman, Wagner, and Percival are to be mentioned as well. Who wouldnt have liked to see this guy as your favorites teams closer? >>



So Arod gets hammered for being in a slump, but Rivera gets a pass, even though Arod been a highly, highly productive hitter for the past decade.

Yankee fans are hypocrites. >>




I have never heard of A-Rod getting hurt in this fashion, but at least he never strained his back putting on a pair of cleats!!!

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>So Arod gets hammered for being in a slump, but Rivera gets a pass, even though Arod been a highly, highly productive hitter for the past decade.

Rivera has been a major part of winning 4 Championships

Arod has not

Thats the reason for the pass

Dave >>



Ding ding ding ding....Exactly.

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>Mariano is a solid reliever, I would take him over Todd Jones, but in no way can he be mention above the name of Trevor Hoffman. It matters not who was on winning teams, who won championships, whatever, Hoffman has been just as good if not better than Mariano over the same span of time! >>



Hoffmans lifetime stats:
ERA: 2.72 Saves:452 Blown Saves:52 HRs:75 Earned Runs:256 Innings Pitches: 847

Riveras lifetime stats:
ERA: 2.33 Saves: 392 Blown Saves:53 HRs:42 Earned Runs:216 Innings Pitched:842

Both have amazing stats that are close to eachothers. Hoffman has more saves do to playing more seasons, and the Padres don't nearly as often put him in before the 9th as the Yanks do. That's why I also mentioned him, had he played in a larger market or for a franchise that won anything(ie: the WS against the Yanks for example) he'd be more widely recognized. Both are the best closers the MLB has seen in atleast the past decade. Mariano just has rings and a WS MVP to go along with it.

Axtell

<< <i>

<< <i>People speak about him like he's a god and can do no wrong. But, he's had some ugly blown saves, including in the post-season. >>




Yeah you are totally right. Over the last 10 years he should have save 100% of the games he entered. He stinks and has cost the Yankees probably a dozen or so games over the 10 year span. If only they could get their hands on Billy Wagner, now THEN we would have something. >>



Oh, you mean how Arod doesn't get a hit 100% of the time he is up?

Again, hypocrisy.

ToppsCo1lector

^^Still angry that Arod is a Yankee instead of with the lowly Mariners I see. Maybe you'll finally be able to smile when the Mariners win a WS....If that ever happens.

Axtell

<< <i>^^Still angry that Arod is a Yankee instead of with the lowly Mariners I see. Maybe you'll finally be able to smile when the Mariners win a WS....If that ever happens. >>



No, who in their right mind would be mad at someone being offered $252 million? Of the three future hall of famers that left in consecutive years (Jr., Arod, and Unit), I don't hate any of them for leaving. Arod got the ridiculous contract offer, Jr. wanted to be closer to home, and Unit was felt to be a liability due to his back injuries and age when he left.

But you still haven't addressed your hypocrisy. Amazing that one of the best players ever is in pinstripes and you boo him nonstop. What's it like to be such a spoiled little fan that you want to boo someone who just last year was winning the MVP?

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>No, who in their right mind would be mad at someone being offered $252 million? >>




But according to your theory of how the business of baseball is to be conducted Arod should have stayed in Seattle.

Shouldn't he have lived up to a moral responsibility and a love for the game and played for less, thereby helping a small market franchise achieve success?

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>

<< <i>^^Still angry that Arod is a Yankee instead of with the lowly Mariners I see. Maybe you'll finally be able to smile when the Mariners win a WS....If that ever happens. >>



No, who in their right mind would be mad at someone being offered $252 million? Of the three future hall of famers that left in consecutive years (Jr., Arod, and Unit), I don't hate any of them for leaving. Arod got the ridiculous contract offer, Jr. wanted to be closer to home, and Unit was felt to be a liability due to his back injuries and age when he left.

But you still haven't addressed your hypocrisy. Amazing that one of the best players ever is in pinstripes and you boo him nonstop. What's it like to be such a spoiled little fan that you want to boo someone who just last year was winning the MVP? >>



Thing is, he has yet to define himself as one of the best players ever in pinstripes. It doesn't matter what he did before he arrived here, it only matter what he's done in pinstripes and until he lives up to his billing, then he's not going to be loved the same way guys like Jete, Donnie Baseball, and Bernie are. BTW, your way off in saying he is booed non-stop. He's booed after he strikes out, leaves runners on, and hits in to DPs. He'd be booed a helluvalot less if he didn't do those 3 as often.

Axtell

<< <i>But according to your theory of how the business of baseball is to be conducted Arod should have stayed in Seattle.
>>



Well, in a perfect world, with every team competing on the same level financially, Mariner fans wouldn't have had to say goodbye to Arod due to an owner who has more financial resources than others. Yes, I would have wanted Arod to stay in Seattle.



<< <i>Shouldn't he have lived up to a moral responsibility and a love for the game and played for less, thereby helping a small market franchise achieve success? >>



Please tell me where I've ever said any player has a moral responsibility to play for less? You are putting words in my mouth that I've never said.

My stance continues to be that all teams should play on the same field financially, allowing smaller market teams to be able to retain their home grown talent without big media markets an unfair advantage to swoop in and steal them.

Now that you've tried to lie about what I've said, how about addressing the hypocrisy in giving Rivera a pass while zeroing in your hate on Arod?


topps, didn't Arod WIN AN MVP in pinstripes?

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>My stance continues to be that all teams should play on the same field financially, allowing smaller market teams to be able to retain their home grown talent without big media markets an unfair advantage to swoop in and steal them. Please tell me where I've ever said any player has a moral responsibility to play for less? >>



This would have to include the cooperation of players and agents, who make contract demands that are then tendered by the teams and visa versa. It's a two way street. Owners and players are equally responsible in any inequity in today's game. A player who stays with a team for less than market (such as Tom Brady) is making a decision based on his moral and value system. Yes it would involve a moral decision. The subject lends itself to this sort of debate.




<< <i>Now that you've tried to lie about what I've said, how about addressing the hypocrisy in giving Rivera a pass while zeroing in your hate on Arod? >>



Haven't participated in the Arod bashing. Look at another thread. You'll see me defending him and stating that most fans support him. I did mention the fans right to voice their discontent, but did not direct any negative comments toward Arod. He has my support and will end the season with good numbers.

Pick your battles wisely Ax.

ToppsCo1lector

Ax-Yes he did, but this is the Yankees were talking about and winning 1 MVP doesn't qualify any player as one of the best ever to don the Pinstripes. It's not like the Yankees are the Mariners or some other franchise that has never won a WS. Performance matters the most in the clutch situations; playoffs, with men on, with a tight game. Rivera has proved time and time and time again why he's one of the best in those moments. ARod hasn't come through in those same situations. RIVERA WAS A WORLD SERIES MVP!

Axtell

<< <i>
This would have to include the cooperation of players and agents, who make contract demands that are then tendered by the teams and visa versa. It's a two way street. Owners and players are equally responsible in any inequity in today's game. A player who stays with a team for less than market (such as Tom Brady) is making a decision based on his moral and value system. Yes it would involve a moral decision. The subject lends itself to this sort of debate.
>>



I don't recall Arod, when his contract was up with Seattle, 'demanding' $25 million a year. It was an offer made out of the blue by the Rangers. Arod didn't demand that kind of money. Yes, it is a two way street, but until there is a cap, these types of contracts will continue.

It's funny you mention a football player, where a cap is in place, instead of a baseball one. I can't recall any baseball player taking any significant amount of less money than he would have made on the open market to stay with the home town team (nor do I expect them to under the current system). A moral decision on Brady's part? Do you think he would have remained in NE if he had won no super bowls as opposed to three?



<< <i>
Ax-Yes he did, but this is the Yankees were talking about and winning 1 MVP doesn't qualify any player as one of the best ever to don the Pinstripes. It's not like the Yankees are the Mariners or some other franchise that has never won a WS. Performance matters the most in the clutch situations; playoffs, with men on, with a tight game. Rivera has proved time and time and time again why he's one of the best in those moments. ARod hasn't come through in those same situations. RIVERA WAS A WORLD SERIES MVP!

Please tell me where I said Arod should be treated as the best to ever wear pinstripes? I simply was in awe that a man could win an MVP for you guys, all the while he's the most hated man in NY. You mention Rivera winning a world series MVP. Your point is? Is it Arod's fault the yankees haven't been to the world series since he got there? Or would be it a team collapse that has kept them from the world series in his time there?

Hypocrisy at it's finest in NY!

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>Amazing that one of the best players ever is in pinstripes and you boo him nonstop. >>




Ummm....

ToppsCo1lector

Anyway but back to the Original topic....MARIANO RIVERA.

WeekendHacker

ToppsCo1lector - speaking of Mariano Rivera - did he have the night/afternoon off? I can't recall the last time I saw the Yankees have a 1 run lead in the 9th inning and Mariano wasn't in there. I'm confused here............

Axtell

<< <i>ToppsCo1lector - speaking of Mariano Rivera - did he have the night/afternoon off? I can't recall the last time I saw the Yankees have a 1 run lead in the 9th inning and Mariano wasn't in there. I'm confused here............ >>



Probably was afraid he'd blow another game?

Barndog

Torre doesn't like to throw Rivera three straight games. Smart manager, knows there are 95 games left to be played.

ToppsCo1lector

<< <i>

<< <i>ToppsCo1lector - speaking of Mariano Rivera - did he have the night/afternoon off? I can't recall the last time I saw the Yankees have a 1 run lead in the 9th inning and Mariano wasn't in there. I'm confused here............ >>



Probably was afraid he'd blow another game? >>



AX, again with that Yankee Hating! He's blown 52 saves in 11 seasons.

Axtell

It wasn't hating, it was a simple question.

Just because someone 'dares' to doubt the almighty yankees doesn't make them a hater.

ToppsCo1lector

But that's all you do is talk about the Yankees, then complain about the fact that the Yankees are covered so much by the media. Your a hater lol.

softparade

<< <i>Torre doesn't like to throw Rivera three straight games. Smart manager, knows there are 95 games left to be played. >>



The above comment is the correct answer. Rivera threw 1 2/3 rds each of the previous two days. Torre will never use Rivera that third day after pitching more than 1 inning each day unless it is playoff implicating baseball.

Good job barndog for bringing something REAL to yet another Yankee hating thread. The sissy mary who started the whole thing (Jersey)has run and hid. Good for him. If that clown (jersey) is so sick and tired of hearing about what Rivera has meant to the Yankees over the years maybe he should try and imagine a NY Met EVER being the most important cog to 4 World Series championship teams. Jersey would be sitting here with all guns blasting if someone dared to take a pot shot at a David Wright after 4 World Series wins. And of course the little sissy picks a day Rivera blows a save. Spineless sap .....

Connecticoin

<< <i>Good job barndog for bringing something REAL to yet another Yankee hating thread. The sissy mary who started the whole thing (Jersey)has run and hid. Good for him. If that clown (jersey) is so sick and tired of hearing about what Rivera has meant to the Yankees over the years maybe he should try and imagine a NY Met EVER being the most important cog to 4 World Series championship teams. Jersey would be sitting here with all guns blasting if someone dared to take a pot shot at a David Wright after 4 World Series wins. And of course the little sissy picks a day Rivera blows a save. Spineless sap ..... >>



Eh, the Mets fans are too busy celebrating the 20th anniversary of the WS that Schiraldi and Stanley handed to them on a silver platter.

Barndog

The funny thing is, I hate the Yankees as much as the next Boston fan, but I do have a great deal of respect for their manager. I am bound by tradition to hate the players, the city, the ballpark, the owner, the hats, the uniforms, the announcers, et al. No tradition says I should hate the manager, unless of course Billy Martin makes a comeback

Jersey

<< The sissy mary who started the whole thing (Jersey)has run and hid. Good for him. If that clown (jersey) is so sick and tired of hearing about what Rivera has meant to the Yankees over the years maybe he should try and imagine a NY Met EVER being the most important cog to 4 World Series championship teams. Jersey would be sitting here with all guns blasting if someone dared to take a pot shot at a David Wright after 4 World Series wins. And of course the little sissy picks a day Rivera blows a save. Spineless sap >>


Just came across your post. No, I'm hardly a "sissy Mary and I wasn't "hiding."
One general comment - although I don't like the Yankees, there are those on the team that I respect - such as Jeter and Bernie and, yes, Torre. Don't get bent out of shape if I criticize others. That's just sports talk and that's what this board is all about.

ToppsCo1lector

Jersey-I know it wasn't in response to me but I don't know why people get bent out of shape over sports. It's just competitive banter to me! The best sports talks I've had were with friends who had different favorite teams. We get to bust eachothers balls and yet because we love sports accept the fact that every dog has his day. My best friend is a BoSox, Av/Nordec and 49'er fan. Yeah we'll get into pissing contests but at the same time there isn't a guy I'd rather go to a game with! That's the thing about sports to me, even if I despise a team/player I'll still give them their due if they earn it. To me the fans are one of if not the most integral part to professional sports. I'll admit I don't like bandwagon fans or haters(ie: Axtell lol) but eh, I honestly just want to see a good game above anything.

softparade

<< <i>
Just came across your post. No, I'm hardly a "sissy Mary and I wasn't "hiding."
One general comment - although I don't like the Yankees, there are those on the team that I respect - such as Jeter and Bernie and, yes, Torre. Don't get bent out of shape if I criticize others. That's just sports talk and that's what this board is all about. >>



Ummmm okay, but those who throw pot shots usually know what the fuc$ they are talking about. Not in this case. Like I said, the day the Mets ring up four World Championships with one guy being extremeley important to those FOUR World Championships is the day you might realize who you are taking pot shots at. And yes, you do come off as being a touch "sissy maryish" Who else would start a LUDICROUS thread knowing it is a call to the jackals and then "just happen by that thread" days later. Well, a sissy mary off course.

Good luck to your Mets

Axtell

All quiet on the yankee front after 3 straight losses again?

Coincidence, again? Nah, that can't be it.

softparade

Give it a rest Ax. We are always here win or lose. Evrybody knows it, yet you still hold to the hope that we all disappear after losses. I am glad to see your Yankee hatred has overwhelmed your fandom of the "Mariners" as expected. Was a lame attempt at trying to look like you are really a Mariner fan with your little thread a WEEK ago.

9 posts and 4 hours later that thread is DEAD! Go ahead Ax, hurry and bump it up! Its only been 8 days Joey Mariner fan

Axtell

It's apparent you yankee 'fans' go into hiding during a losing streak, and are far less vocal (after all, how can you talk s**t when you're team is stinking up the joint?)

I am of the mindset that the M's are playing some great ball as of late, and I am content in knowing that fact. Not like you dopes in NY think any teams exists other than the yankees anyways.

What's it like to only care about your team when they are winning?

bri2327

Dan,

Exactly how I always try to look at things in baseball regarding the never as good as you look when things are going well, and never as bad when the chips are down. Hopefully this is the low point, and if not, oh well, the world wont come to an end. Nor will it stop any of the real fans from watching the games, going to the games, or talking about the team good or bad. I grew up during Mattingly's career, so I know the bad times all too well. It never stopped me or any other fan from jumping ship, and it wont now either.

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>What's it like to only care about your team when they are winning? >>



I think you're confusing them with Marlins fans.

softparade

Ax,

very lame ..... quite boring to boot

Bri, I was a kid when The Yankees won in the late 70's. I grew up during that putrid 15 year stretch of miserable baseball played by the Yankees. I grew to LOVE them during those horrible Jack Clark, Melido Perez, Jessie Barfield, Steve Sax , Steve Kemp, Ken Phelps, etc years. The LAST thing that will happen will be a two bit IDIOT from the left coast thinking he knooows Yankee fans I enjoy slapping Axtell around like a cat does catnip ...... its refreshing

bri2327

<< <i>

Bri, I was a kid when The Yankees won in the late 70's. I grew up during that putrid 15 year stretch of miserable baseball played by the Yankees. I grew to LOVE them during those horrible Jack Clark, Melido Perez, Jessie Barfield, Steve Sax , Steve Kemp, Ken Phelps, etc years. The LAST thing that will happen will be a two bit IDIOT from the left coast thinking he knooows Yankee fans I enjoy slapping Axtell around like a cat does catnip ...... its refreshing >>



I very vaguely remember the late 70's....I was 5 when they won in 78 so its more scattered memories than anything.


We cant forget the rest of those glorious pitching staffs they had....Joe Cowley, Ed Whitson, Tim Stoddard, Steve Trout, Lee Guetterman, Richard Dotson, Dave LaPoint, and so on. If that bunch didnt make us run nothing will !!!

SoFLPhillyFan

Some of the tradition lives on...

Pavano.

bri2327

They have also been quite adept at acquiring pitchers who can succeed everywhere but NY......Kevin Brown, Jose Contreras, Javier Vasquez, Kenny Rogers, etc etc etc.

Axtell

And the yankee 'fans' attempt to defend their bandwagoning by mentioning how long they've been fans.

Great move, guys! Mussina getting shelled, I wonder how far under the bed you 'fans' will be hiding tonight?

ToppsCo1lector

Yes Ax the Yanks are doing just putrid this season....Only a Top 6 record in baseball(not sure on the exact record but before this recent skid they had the third best in the AL). Once again your out to prove your a hater. It's true Yankee fans don't really think about other teams, the same is with everybody with a favorite team(Think NFL, NHL fans)....But again your out to prove me wrong, or is it that I'm right in that your just a hater. lol, just keep talking about the Yanks. The same Yank fans always post on here whether win or lose, whether to praise or bash.


BTW, I've never liked Moose. I grew up in Oriole country and I remember the press conference he had saying "I'll be an O for life" then 3 days later signing with the Yanks. He has great variation on his stuff this season(speed, better movement on the curve) but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of his.


I grew up in era of Kevin Maas and the whatcouldhavebeen career of Brien Taylor. I saw the tale end of Donnie Baseball's career and the beginning of Jetes, Posadas, Bernies, Pettites, as well as Cone, Wells, Johnsons perfect games. Hell that's enough for me, but luckily we have an owner that wants to win.


Once again, keep talking about how you "hate" the Yankees. Lets not forget your "favorite" team has never won a championship lol, sucks don't it.

softparade

<< <i>And the yankee 'fans' attempt to defend their bandwagoning by mentioning how long they've been fans.

Great move, guys! Mussina getting shelled, I wonder how far under the bed you 'fans' will be hiding tonight? >>



This coming from the "guy" who says he is "content" as a Mariner fan and has no reason to talk about them

Ax, you are losing your spunk buddy

Axtell

<< <i>Yes Ax the Yanks are doing just putrid this season....Only a Top 6 record in baseball(not sure on the exact record but before this recent skid they had the third best in the AL). >>




With the highest payroll (by a LONNNNG shot), anything less than the best record is a joke, isn't it?



<< <i> Once again your out to prove your a hater. It's true Yankee fans don't really think about other teams, the same is with everybody with a favorite team(Think NFL, NHL fans)....But again your out to prove me wrong, or is it that I'm right in that your just a hater. lol, just keep talking about the Yanks. The same Yank fans always post on here whether win or lose, whether to praise or bash. >>



The hell they do...you yankee 'fans' are quiet lil mice as the losses mount, hiding out....but when they win, watch out! It's like you all get some liquid courage in ya and feel the need to run yer yaps.



<< <i>BTW, I've never liked Moose. I grew up in Oriole country and I remember the press conference he had saying "I'll be an O for life" then 3 days later signing with the Yanks. He has great variation on his stuff this season(speed, better movement on the curve) but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of his. >>



So are you a fan of Damon? A fan of any mercenary the Yankees have brought on board in attempts to buy another championship?



<< <i>I grew up in era of Kevin Maas and the whatcouldhavebeen career of Brien Taylor. I saw the tale end of Donnie Baseball's career and the beginning of Jetes, Posadas, Bernies, Pettites, as well as Cone, Wells, Johnsons perfect games. Hell that's enough for me, but luckily we have an owner that wants to win. >>



And an owner who is fortunate to live in the biggest media market in the US, and a league that doesn't feel a salary cap, true revenue sharing, and a level playing field are good for the long term health of the league. Please, if one more yankee fan tells me that queen george wants to win more than other owners, I am going to vomit. All owners want to win, some just have the resources to spend unlimited money on payroll.



<< <i>Once again, keep talking about how you "hate" the Yankees. Lets not forget your "favorite" team has never won a championship lol, sucks don't it. >>



But I am not a fan of my team because of the championships they've won, which is the reason why so many yankee 'fans' call themselves fans...the most successful franchises are always going to have the most hangers-on, the most bandwagoner riders - which, it appears, YOU are.

Sucks, don't it, to be called out for the dope you are?

softparade

DAMN ..... none of my quotes are in Axtell's mix of crying