For the record, I am not a MOSH supporter. I can just understand why he operates the way he does.
Do I like it when anyone keeps their sets hidden. The answer is no.
Do I think it goes against the spirit of the registry. The answer is yes.
Do I like it personally that MOSH is buying his way to the top of just about everything in Football. The answer is no. Once again, kind of goes against the spirit of the registry, in my mind.
Am I sadened to see Frank sell his PSA 9 plus 1964 Philly set. YES VERY. That was truely a crown jewel to many of us Football guy's.
But if Frank is comfortable selling it, which he obliviously is ........ I guess I shouldn't be. I greatly respect Frank and certainly wish him well on his next sports card quest.
I agree with you there Frank...what's the point of giving an award to something that cannot be viewed? Kinda like an Oscar for a movie no one is allowed to see!
Ironically, that was the exact analogy I cited. Great minds do think alike
I do not believe Frank would have sold unless he got an offer way over market.
Also, I can never see him selling his premeir set--1975 Topps Baseball
Jim
That is correct Jim...btw it's 1957 Topps...
Nothing wrong with being a collector/hoarder. I am. This is not the first set that Frank built, then sold, and used the funds for something else.
If my remark sounded disparging <sp> it was not intended too.
Steve
No offense at all Steve..I've sold my 1962 Civil War News set, my Mars Attacks set, my 1960 Topps FB set among others. I really enjoy collecting, but sometimes financial sense and other interests wiil lead to me selling. I would only sell my Mickey Mantle set or my 1957 Topps BB set if I had a serious financial problem. My other sets however, like the 56 Topps Presidents, 58 Topps Zorro set or HOF Baseball sets would be sold if I was offered stupid money for them.
Interesting thread. I just had an email from MOSH wondering if I wanted to sell my '59 Bell Brand Rams set. I really don't want to part with it just yet, especially since I'm still a few cards short.
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
I think anybody overpaying for cards in a good thing. It helps keep the market strong which is good for all of us. When people are low balling everything in sight, it drives down the perceived strength of the market. 1990's Insert cards are a good example. I remember at shows having a 50% off box. Later on, it was a 75% off box. Then became a 90% off box. Now the crap isn't worth bringing to a show. You don't want that happening to other stuff.
Wow it's hard to remember all of the things I want to comment on in this post. But the first one is my main point.
Frank - Thank you very much; it is always my extreme pleasure working with you. You are a dedicated diligent collector and it's easy to admire a straight shooter. Thank you for everything. The 64 Philly set was very much a win/win situation, but from MOSH's angle it was just chock full of PSA 10s and specialty set upgrades.
Fuzz - I can say that yes, John is aware of the Olympics and it does influence focus.
Mike (and others) - Thank for keeping the Olympics going and updated, I appriciate all of your efforts
All - I don't golf, not that there is anything wrong with that.
With Franks set gone now I guess these will be the focus for 07 for the empire 61 @62 fleer 64 topps and 67 philly the only mainstream sets from the 60,s mosh is not at least in the top 3 of.
I guess its time for Wolf and NRMINT AKA puremint to meet the mosh 64 topps will be the easiest i think for him to get into the 67,s might be a little tougher
So Art, You are just sooooo sly........ which of these sets are you getting ready to hopefully sell MOSH ..... Your 67 Philly?? Planting the seed are we?
Play nice now .... Art's trying to raise some cash to buy some disc sets off me. Speaking of which, did anyone see that sweet looking Buckman set in Mile High's auction. Complete set with all PSA 10's ... WOW! That would shoot you right to the top! Or how about that tough (pop 1 of 1) PSA 10 Joe Montana 1981 MSA rookie card disc? I know MOSH doesn't have that one either. Where do they find all of these rare beauties?
Wabbit, I would like to respectfully disagree. This over payment leaves a distortion behond it that does not quickly balance out. In 66T FB, when MOSH bought Skinsfan's set he then proceeded to upgrade everything he could get his hands on or flush out of the woodwork. Good idea for him. Not so good for those that are left in the wake. I have found more than a dozen cards that I could upgrade my set with but we can't agree on a price. The conversation is quickly "Well the last one sold for X". Followed by "well the next one won't". And here we sit more than a year later, they still have the cards and we are even further away than ever on pricing. At the time the cards were trading at about 5X SMR. MOSH paid (my estimate from what I have been told) 7.5X SMR. The current ebay going rate is now about 3.5X SMR and dropping. In the mean time, there remains only two other collectors at the next price point. Neither of which has shown a great interest in dropping a lot of money to upgrade to finish second and no new players have come into the set willing to pay even the 3.5X price point. Good strategy for MOSH since he has now won two awards and has no one really pressing him. Nor will he until the price is resolved. Dealer asking record prices and fewer collectors interested. I do not believe that this was "good" for the market. Ultimately supply and demand will balance out for all things. We get to the same place in the end, we are just discussing the path. If it ends up in the 90% off box, it was destined too anyway.
Jeremy, Thanks for the response. I am a bit surprised and do not know whether to feel better because at least I am being beat by a guy that is trying or worse because it will probbaly continue. A good time either way.
Please MikeT1, Start a 60's BB Olympics where Dav and will be ahead. At least for a while. The distraction might help. Fuzz
Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
Or how about that tough (pop 1 of 1) PSA 10 Joe Montana 1981 MSA rookie card disc? I know MOSH doesn't have that one either.
yeah.... they don't have it yet you mean.. unless something major goes down between now and then, i will be unable to afford that as much as i would love to have it so i must let it go to MOSH or whoever the high bidder ends up being.. *wipes away tear from cheek
the worst part of it, i think i was outbid on that disc long ago when it was an ungraded 10..... - doh!
for the greater good, maybe someone with more money in the bank will buy it, keep it for a while and bask in its magnificence, and sell it to me for a modest profit later when i'm rich again? haha.. doesn't hurt to wish i guess.. i'm currently in negotiations with a board member for a psa 8 of that disc because like i said, i'm tapped out from buying a couple more pallettes of my worthless modern crap.. well at least i have fun...
also - every really major expensive card in my set, came at huge expense from having to outbid MOSH and his minions... starline prototype, wild card 1000 stripes, etc etc etc... and now it looks like the MSA disc also... it's very tough doing battle with someone with pockets that deep, but i welcome the competition anyway...
that said, please keep him busy with vintage as long as you can!
Jim, Just for the record, I think I could beat that four but have not registered or updated BB in years except for one set where I have snuck the award two years in a row without the best set. Fuzz
Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
Oh, and Montanafan, "Keep him busy"!?! Is this a joke? He has us pinned down under light to moderate CARPET BOMBING! He is shelling away freely and not only are we not keeping him busy, we have run for cover, ducked, dug holes, said our prayers and are hoping just to save some tush for a sunny day. We have been front lines for more than a year now and the roar of his climb up the ladder was deafening. He took my lunch..... gave to his dog. Then he took metal lunch box including the thermos. He ate the lunchbox and snacked on the thermos later in the day. Glass and all. I have had a good career, Jim is wildly sucsessful, and this guy passed us like a Ferrari passing two guys pushing peanuts with their noses. As much as we would like to help........... I'm afraid your on your own. (Don't tell Jeremy but soon we will be unhatching a new and devious plan to regain the top medal spot next year). Welcome to the boards and don't let it get you down. None of the rest of us have. Fuzz PS. About five years ago, I was in Vegas shooting dice in lower end place on the strip and up walked Joe to try his luck. By the way, he stunk. Thought that was a once in a life time experience but happened to in the same place the next day at about the same. He came up a shot again. Still stunk though. It was embarrassing watching grown men make idiots of themselves to drool on a celeb. I got his attention with a not as nice remark but that is another story.
Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
This over payment leaves a distortion behond it that does not quickly balance out. In 66T FB, when MOSH bought Skinsfan's set he then proceeded to upgrade everything he could get his hands on or flush out of the woodwork. Good idea for him. Not so good for those that are left in the wake
Fuzz,
I disagree. My set is virtually un-improveable. Of the few cards that could upgrade my set, most are firmly entrenched in collections and I was never able to pry them loose. The guys behind me were never going to catch me and, if you check, the prices for 64 Philly FB are dropping as the pops increase. The 64 Philly FB situation is the same, only the names have changed.
<< <i>The guys behind me were never going to catch me >>
Frank,
I was planning on not only catching you, but surpassing you next year! I've got this big stack of raw 9's and 10's just sitting here waiting to be graded. However now that you've sold the set, my hearts just not in it anymore.
fuzz.. thanks for the post and it's great to meet you.. which sets are yours on the registry? i'd like to check those out more closely..
as for the disc, i'm leaning towards plan c: find my own, grade it and knock that one down from 1/1 status.. easier said than done, of course.. it's always far more satisfying to submit your own and get a 10 rather than pay out the you-know-what for someone else's anyway... i just hope that the bidders at that auction, who i fear will be there mostly for vintage baseball cards, will recognize the value of that disc and it won't slip through the cracks for too cheap..
i've heard other stories from people that have met montana, none of them very positive.. i guess he didn't display the same poise and leadership at the craps table as he did on the football field eh? what kind of bets was he laying?
dare i ask, what was your comment to him? and if you ever run into him again, please ask him if he happened to keep any of those )@*($# cardboard discs where he looks like a biker from the seventies.. LOL
With all this talk about taking lunches and being the play ground bully, I noticed MOSH is scared to pay top dollar for 1967 philly cards. Is the bully scared? Is the bully afraid of the competition? I thought MOSH had deep pockets? Is MOSH cheap? Looks like he has limits.
jayhawke- Funny you mention that. I've won a few auctions recently where MOSH was the underbidder. It doesn't happen often, but I did notice. Makes you wonder sometimes.
Comments
I can just understand why he operates the way he does.
Do I like it when anyone keeps their sets hidden. The answer is no.
Do I think it goes against the spirit of the registry. The answer is yes.
Do I like it personally that MOSH is buying his way to the top of just about everything in Football. The answer is no.
Once again, kind of goes against the spirit of the registry, in my mind.
Am I sadened to see Frank sell his PSA 9 plus 1964 Philly set. YES VERY.
That was truely a crown jewel to many of us Football guy's.
But if Frank is comfortable selling it, which he obliviously is ........ I guess I shouldn't be.
I greatly respect Frank and certainly wish him well on his next sports card quest.
He simply builds a set then moves on to another.
great philosphy imo
good luck Frank in your next quest!
Steve
I respectfully disagree,
I do not believe Frank would have sold unless he got an offer way over market.
Also, I can never see him selling his premeir set--1975 Topps Baseball.
Jim
Nothing wrong with being a collector/hoarder. I am. This is not the first set that Frank built, then sold, and used the funds for something else.
If my remark sounded disparging <sp> it was not intended too.
Steve
No--you were not--I just don't think Frank would have sold this set if he did not get double what he put into it.
Jim
Ironically, that was the exact analogy I cited. Great minds do think alike
Also, I can never see him selling his premeir set--1975 Topps Baseball
Jim
That is correct Jim...btw it's 1957 Topps...
Nothing wrong with being a collector/hoarder. I am. This is not the first set that Frank built, then sold, and used the funds for something else.
If my remark sounded disparging <sp> it was not intended too.
Steve
No offense at all Steve..I've sold my 1962 Civil War News set, my Mars Attacks set, my 1960 Topps FB set among others. I really enjoy collecting, but sometimes financial sense and other interests wiil lead to me selling. I would only sell my Mickey Mantle set or my 1957 Topps BB set if I had a serious financial problem. My other sets however, like the 56 Topps Presidents, 58 Topps Zorro set or HOF Baseball sets would be sold if I was offered stupid money for them.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
When it comes to 60s and earlier seems to me he has bought most intact and then upgraded versus the rest of us who have mostly built from scratch.
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
I would also be interested in your set. I can also guarantee you that you would be paid on a timely basis and that my check won't bounce.
Dav
<< <i>Bowdowntome,
I would also be interested in your set. I can also guarantee you that you would be paid on a timely basis and that my check won't bounce.
Dav >>
Me, too! I'd like to scan the set for my gallery.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Frank - Thank you very much; it is always my extreme pleasure working with you.
You are a dedicated diligent collector and it's easy to admire a straight shooter. Thank you for everything.
The 64 Philly set was very much a win/win situation, but from MOSH's angle it was just chock full of PSA 10s and specialty set upgrades.
Fuzz - I can say that yes, John is aware of the Olympics and it does influence focus.
Mike (and others) - Thank for keeping the Olympics going and updated, I appriciate all of your efforts
All - I don't golf, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Jeremy
I guess its time for Wolf and NRMINT AKA puremint to meet the mosh 64 topps will be the easiest i think for him to get into the 67,s might be a little tougher
You are just sooooo sly........ which of these sets are you getting ready to hopefully sell MOSH ..... Your 67 Philly??
Planting the seed are we?
Play nice now .... Art's trying to raise some cash to buy some disc sets off me. Speaking of which, did anyone see that sweet looking Buckman set in Mile High's auction. Complete set with all PSA 10's ... WOW! That would shoot you right to the top! Or how about that tough (pop 1 of 1) PSA 10 Joe Montana 1981 MSA rookie card disc? I know MOSH doesn't have that one either. Where do they find all of these rare beauties?
I'd also like to outbid MOSH and Lillo for your set .... but my check would bounce, so I'll just help run up the price for you!
Mike
Loves me some shiny!
I would like to respectfully disagree. This over payment leaves a distortion behond it that does not quickly balance out. In 66T FB, when MOSH bought Skinsfan's set he then proceeded to upgrade everything he could get his hands on or flush out of the woodwork. Good idea for him. Not so good for those that are left in the wake. I have found more than a dozen cards that I could upgrade my set with but we can't agree on a price. The conversation is quickly "Well the last one sold for X". Followed by "well the next one won't". And here we sit more than a year later, they still have the cards and we are even further away than ever on pricing. At the time the cards were trading at about 5X SMR. MOSH paid (my estimate from what I have been told) 7.5X SMR. The current ebay going rate is now about 3.5X SMR and dropping. In the mean time, there remains only two other collectors at the next price point. Neither of which has shown a great interest in dropping a lot of money to upgrade to finish second and no new players have come into the set willing to pay even the 3.5X price point. Good strategy for MOSH since he has now won two awards and has no one really pressing him. Nor will he until the price is resolved. Dealer asking record prices and fewer collectors interested. I do not believe that this was "good" for the market.
Ultimately supply and demand will balance out for all things. We get to the same place in the end, we are just discussing the path.
If it ends up in the 90% off box, it was destined too anyway.
Jeremy,
Thanks for the response. I am a bit surprised and do not know whether to feel better because at least I am being beat by a guy that is trying or worse because it will probbaly continue. A good time either way.
Please MikeT1, Start a 60's BB Olympics where Dav and will be ahead. At least for a while. The distraction might help.
Fuzz
I did 60s baseball using the same methodology.
I would have 12 medals followed by three guys with four---Golf Pro Greg, Toniguchi and 707 Sportscards.
There are a lot of smaller sets where the Evil Empire could buy his way to some medals.
No signs on the horizon yet.
Jim
yeah.... they don't have it yet you mean.. unless something major goes down between now and then, i will be unable to afford that as much as i would love to have it so i must let it go to MOSH or whoever the high bidder ends up being.. *wipes away tear from cheek
the worst part of it, i think i was outbid on that disc long ago when it was an ungraded 10.....
for the greater good, maybe someone with more money in the bank will buy it, keep it for a while and bask in its magnificence, and sell it to me for a modest profit later when i'm rich again? haha.. doesn't hurt to wish i guess.. i'm currently in negotiations with a board member for a psa 8 of that disc because like i said, i'm tapped out from buying a couple more pallettes of my worthless modern crap.. well at least i have fun...
- upside
that said, please keep him busy with vintage as long as you can!
Just for the record, I think I could beat that four but have not registered or updated BB in years except for one set where I have snuck the award two years in a row without the best set.
Fuzz
"Keep him busy"!?! Is this a joke? He has us pinned down under light to moderate CARPET BOMBING!
He is shelling away freely and not only are we not keeping him busy, we have run for cover, ducked, dug holes, said our prayers and are hoping just to save some tush for a sunny day. We have been front lines for more than a year now and the roar of his climb up the ladder was deafening.
He took my lunch..... gave to his dog. Then he took metal lunch box including the thermos. He ate the lunchbox and snacked on the thermos later in the day. Glass and all. I have had a good career, Jim is wildly sucsessful, and this guy passed us like a Ferrari passing two guys pushing peanuts with their noses.
As much as we would like to help........... I'm afraid your on your own.
(Don't tell Jeremy but soon we will be unhatching a new and devious plan to regain the top medal spot next year).
Welcome to the boards and don't let it get you down. None of the rest of us have.
Fuzz
PS. About five years ago, I was in Vegas shooting dice in lower end place on the strip and up walked Joe to try his luck. By the way, he stunk. Thought that was a once in a life time experience but happened to in the same place the next day at about the same. He came up a shot again. Still stunk though.
It was embarrassing watching grown men make idiots of themselves to drool on a celeb. I got his attention with a not as nice remark but that is another story.
Fuzz,
I disagree. My set is virtually un-improveable. Of the few cards that could upgrade my set, most are firmly entrenched in collections and I was never able to pry them loose. The guys behind me were never going to catch me and, if you check, the prices for 64 Philly FB are dropping as the pops increase. The 64 Philly FB situation is the same, only the names have changed.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
<< <i>The guys behind me were never going to catch me >>
Frank,
I was planning on not only catching you, but surpassing you next year! I've got this big stack of raw 9's and 10's just sitting here waiting to be graded. However now that you've sold the set, my hearts just not in it anymore.
Mike
as for the disc, i'm leaning towards plan c: find my own, grade it and knock that one down from 1/1 status.. easier said than done, of course.. it's always far more satisfying to submit your own and get a 10 rather than pay out the you-know-what for someone else's anyway... i just hope that the bidders at that auction, who i fear will be there mostly for vintage baseball cards, will recognize the value of that disc and it won't slip through the cracks for too cheap..
i've heard other stories from people that have met montana, none of them very positive.. i guess he didn't display the same poise and leadership at the craps table as he did on the football field eh? what kind of bets was he laying?
dare i ask, what was your comment to him? and if you ever run into him again, please ask him if he happened to keep any of those )@*($# cardboard discs where he looks like a biker from the seventies.. LOL
- b