Hypothetical, sort of : If a dealer lists a coin at $1000, but will sell it for $700, will you do bu
coinguy1
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If a dealer lists a coin at $1000, but will sell it for $700, will you do business with him?
What if he lists a coin at $1000, but through asking questions and negotiating, you learn that he weill sell it for $500?
I bet many, if not most of you are saying "Heck yes, why not?, I love a big discount?, why would you ask such a stupid question?"
I'll wait for some replies before I chime in with my thoughts on this subject.
What if he lists a coin at $1000, but through asking questions and negotiating, you learn that he weill sell it for $500?
I bet many, if not most of you are saying "Heck yes, why not?, I love a big discount?, why would you ask such a stupid question?"
I'll wait for some replies before I chime in with my thoughts on this subject.
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to 'hear' that he would sell it for 5, then I think something is askew in the hood.
If the coin fits what I want in my collection- I would probably deal, but not sight unseen.
I would rather have the asking price close to his "fair" price, with a small discount for regular customers.
Robert, is that because you don't think you'll be able to buy the coin at a fair price, or is there a different reason "I won't do business with him."?
We don't know the circumstances behind this fire sale, and perhaps we shouldn't care.
Could be that the guy is trying to turn a terrible show into a so-so show, could be
that he needs some dental work in a hurry, and doesn't have the cash on hand,
could be that he is a snake-oil salesman to begin with, and worthy of contempt under
usual circumstances?!
Not having more background, I would have to say that negotiations are a factor
in all transactions, more or less. As a buyer, I don't play the "What I have in it"
gambit (love that chess term) or any of the step-children variations of the same.
I think it also highly unlikely that a reputable dealer would give so much on his
bottom-line-price, without a darn good reason. That, by itself, would give me
cause to reconsider the transaction. But it would not necessarily be a show-stopper,
if I were a serious buyer...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>When I see a coin listed for $1000, I assume that the coin will cost me between $900 and $1000 to buy it. If I feel it is $300 to $500 overpriced, I won't even make an inquiry. So, chances are, I won't do business with him. >>
I agree. To answer your follow-up question, Mark - If a coin is so overpriced in the first place, I won't even bother trying to negotiate with the dealer.
<< <i>We don't know the circumstances behind this fire sale, and perhaps we shouldn't care. >>
John, please take it as a given in this "hypothetical, sort of" that the 30%+ discount is not especially uncommon/unusual for the dealer.
Edited to add:
<< <i>Is the coin in the dealer's inventory or listed on consignment? >>
The coin is in the dealer's inventory, although practically speaking, you don't know if it's been consigned to him/her or not.
Yes
<<What if he lists a coin at $1000, but through asking questions and negotiating, you learn that he weill sell it for $500?>>
Yes
<<I bet many, if not most of you are saying "Heck yes, why not?, I love a big discount?, why would you ask such a stupid question?">>
Heck Yes...why would you ask such a stupid question?
I would imagine a seller would list a higher price so that:
1- Someone who wants the coin really bad and has a 'money is no object' attitude will be happy buying the coin at that price.
2- Some buyers are reluctant to try to haggle the price down (not in their nature) and will either take it or leave it.
3- It would give the seller room to negotiate with buyers who like to haggle and to get a deal. Some of these buyers may be other dealers looking for room for a mark-up as well.
4- If the seller lists the item too low initially, he may never know what true price he may have realized or the price the "market will bear" and wish he had set the list price higher.
5- The seller should have an idea of his market demographics, the price he needs to sell to attain a profit margin to stay in business, and the breakeven point on the item for sale.
He may also have to sell some stock to keep his assets liquid enough so that the inventory doesn't just sit around gathering dust.
So if he sells it at his list price, at his breakeven point, or even a loss, this is a business decision he has to make to stay in business.
I would even think he would sell them at below list or even break-even point to enncourage new customer(s) doing business with him in the future.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
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It is the former--because I do not think I will be able to buy the coin at a fair price.
Not to cast aspersions, Anaconda Rare Coins often sports hefty price tags on their inventory. (They have nice coins and exceptional service and are free to price their invnetory however they please. I like and respect Brandon, so my point is not to trash him or ARC.) When queried on the issue of the high price tags, Brandon always points out that if you think the price is too high, you should make an offer. To me, that is one big mind game that I have no interest in playing. My feeling is that nearly any offer I make will end up with me feeling uncomfortable:
1. If I offer too high and they take it, I wonder how much money I left on the table.
2. If I offer too low, and they refuse, I fear that I have insulted them or look like a doofus.
3. If I offer too low and they counter, but I think the counter is too high, and I refuse, I look like a tightwad.
Bottom line: I think coins should be priced close to the expected selling price. If you want to give a good customer or check payer a small discount, great. The extra padding is good for those who want lay-away, pay by credit card, or other services that cost the seller money.
Bottom line: When I see a coin that I feel is overpriced, I pass without further consideration.
My experience is that "trusted" dealers work on relatively small margins (10% - 20%). I almost exclusively deal with a few trusted dealers who I don't have to negotiate with. They will often tell me their markup, but I never ask. I’m hesitant to deal with high markup-lowball price dealers because I don't trust them. I would be especially concerned about the possibility of purchasing a problem coin.
Bottom line, maybe if it is a coin I really needed and I fully trusted the coin (but not the dealer). However, I do not seek them out and actively try to avoid them. I've found more "bargains" with trusted, lower markup dealers than with the "let's negotiate" kind. Just my stupid, nutty opinion.
On the other hand, when buying Persian rugs …..
I also wondered if any recent threads have inspired this hypothetical from Coinguy1.
If you know of a dealer who carries very choice/high quality coins and you always try to beat them up over getting a discount you may find that dealer one day decides it's not worth the effort for such a small margin and the hobby loses somebody who was always a souce for very nice coins.
Now I am not saying you should always pay moon money from said dealer, but it's something to consider.
Just my two cents...
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
When I see that token or coin I really want and inquire as to their best price, usually I have decided to buy it even if the dealer won't budge, but if they do, I feel more than pleased. This is of course with a coin in hand after I have truly examined it.
...now that said... if it was 20-30% for common bullion... that's weird.
So the short answer is "it depends", but hey, the "price is the price", I don't have a problem with the dealer setting whatever price he wants, no hard feelings. Nickel & diming me on the grade though... that's the quickest way to get a "pass".
~g
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Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
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<< <i>
<< <i>We don't know the circumstances behind this fire sale, and perhaps we shouldn't care. >>
John, please take it as a given in this "hypothetical, sort of" that the 30%+ discount is not especially uncommon/unusual for the dealer.
Edited to add:
<< <i>Is the coin in the dealer's inventory or listed on consignment? >>
The coin is in the dealer's inventory, although practically speaking, you don't know if it's been consigned to him/her or not. >>
Okay - that is easier to deal with, I think. If I had this intelligence ahead of time, I would factor it in to
what I would offer to begin with. "Is that your best price?" and walking away, can be a valuable tactic
to use, from the perspective of a buyer who has no qualms about trying to negotiate a good price.
On the other hand, I must confess - I have some philosophical problems with dealers who operate like
this. It is the stuff that can make your hair stand on the back of your head - using eBay as an example.
There are some who will price to the moon, hoping some chump comes along who will pay an outrageous
price for a coin. Sometimes they score - more often they re-list at more reasonable levels, until a buyer is
found.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I have a bit more respect for the professional who knows what he
has, and prices accordingly. If I want the piece, I may try to negotiate a better price - but if I REALLY want
it I will also know, in the back of my mind, just how far I can go in this regard. Normally, unless it is part
and parcel of a much larger transaction, it will not involve discounts of 30-40% of the retail price.
But that is just a personal preference, a purist might not have any problems at all with this kind of deal.
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
If it's priced at $1000 and he volunteers a 300 discount, I'll look ...verrry... closely at the coin. THEN decide.
If it's an obvious $700 coin and the rest of his stuff is also overpriced for "snob appeal"..maybe...but most likely I won't even stop at the table to ask.
If it's a LESS THAN $700 coin..... well..... no need to ask. (but then #1 wouldn't apply would it?)
Mark, it's Memorial Day. Aren't you sentimental?
Freak
All that experience comes with a price.
I can easily see a dealer selling a coin for $1000 to a new customer--if it was indeed a $1000 coin. I can see him selling it for $700 to a regular customer in order to show that he is the kind of dealer this customer wants to continue dealing with. I can also see him selling this coin to his very best customer for $500, because in that situation, thats his bread and butter account, and they get the highest level of service, best coins, and best service, and if they go elsewhere or another dealer courts them away, that could prove ruinous for his business. Anyone think he might even be taking a loss on that one coin to prove his committment to that special customer?
Edited to delete irrelevant comment.
There are a lot of services and products listed at a certain price that the seller would be willing to take less on should the option arise.
Mark, you may purchase a coin for $300.00 and offer it, online, for 1K and then sell it to me for $700.00. It shouldn't/wouldn't bother me if down the road I discovered what you paid.
The coin is worth, to me, what I am willing to pay for it. Pricing points from the past do not determine the value today- for me.
peacockcoins
Now a days it seems that dealers don't come down much in price. So if you see a coin that you like, but the price marked on the holder is "out to lunch" it's often a waste of time to ask. BUT in the good days, some of those listed prices were part of the game. If he's asking $1,000 but comes down to $500, it would seem like a bargain to some people and help sell the item.
Now as a dealer buying a coin for resale, this is a different story....
I would wonder why the big discount, is the coin problematic? Is the coin stolen? Why is this dealer giving me deal? Lots of questions and I would tend to get as much information as possible becasue when I go to resell it, I would expect the same.
<< <i>Prices vary a lot based on the buyer's attitude..... >>
. . . and prices that a buyer is willing to pay vary a lot with the seller's attitude.
"You want to buy it?"
"I'm interested, but I would not pay anywhere near that for it," I answered.
"So what do you want to pay?" he responded.
"My offer would be insulting," I answered.
"So insult me," he said.
"$55," I responsed.
"Sold!" he said.
But that was in the good old days when there were more decent raw coins available. Today a lot of the decent stuff has been slabbed and the prices are set to close to what the dealers want for them.
<< <i>will you do business with him? >>
if i want to play games i will go to a carnival
as anyone i want to do coin biz with usually is someone i want to trust and also trade sell buy ask some insight opinions on
and since this coin seller is a game player usually when i go to games of chance like this coin seller is doing i wind up with the short end of the stick
if this coin seller is this shady then he is no friend to me and not someone that is any good karma for me at all and this is for me as a collector someone else in the biz that needs to make a living things might be different but for me as a collector this coin seller is doing me or my interests no big favors