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Anyone specialize in collecting gold ancients?

Curious if anyone focuses on gold coins from the Greek and Roman eras? Surprisingly they seem to be priced lower than early U.S. gold coins. Are there lots of counterfeits to worry about? Are they tough to collect? What type of collections are realistic for a collector limiting any one coin purchase to less than $4,000.00?

Comments

  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no one?
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not me, but the more I look at ancients...it looks like fun imageimage

    Cathy

  • GallienusGallienus Posts: 29 ✭✭
    I used to look at few but unfortunately didn't bid on more of them some years ago. I had the chance to buy this Athenian dekadrachm which was extremely historic (they melted down their statue of Athena to make it) but didn't bid. It was in CNG. I don't specialize in ancient gold but tended to try for them as part of general ancient types. Recently I did get a top end VF aureus of the Roman Emperor Otho: the rarer "Victoria Othonis" reverse type too.

    I always wanted one of the Miletos gold staters: you know the hoard ones. I don't like the small 1/6 staters nor Roman solidii
    I collect Ancients and early Independence Era Latin American.
  • JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    I don't specialize in GOLD but have been putting together an Ancients collection for a few years.

    I especially love the early Greek and do have (1) Gold Stater from Alexander's brother Phillip III Ar. It is the classic type.

    I'm also working on a Roman portraits collection and have (2) Aureii. One from Tiberius and one from Nero. Both are in VF condition.
    I have them slabbed (not popular with Ancients collectors). I did it most to preserve the condition, and for the silver pieces,, to preserve the toning on most of the nice ones.

    Yes, there are quite a few counterfeit pieces out there - especially of the gold. It is fairly easy to counterfeit a higher-value ancient piece (but detectible once you know the look of original pieces). I would avoid expensive pieces especially on the eBay, unless you know the Seller.

    Better pieces can be had from Civitas with Josh and Ben being a class act. There are other reputable dealers, and a search of Vcoins.com will find most of them.


  • << <i> One from Tiberius and one from Nero. Both are in VF condition.
    I have them slabbed (not popular with Ancients collectors).. >>



    We usually smash the slabs and remove the coin. (smile)

    Some gold coins are impossible to find while others are easily located.

    Some Byzantine area gold coins can be found for under $200 each.
    While others and some Roman era coins will selll for more.

    But for 4,000 per coin, you should be able to make a nice collection.
    I would suggest staying away from Ebay until you learn legitimate from fakes.
    Greek gold can run you a little higher due to some of their amazing celator work.
    Some of the most beautiful most creative coins ever.

    Visit Civitas or Joe at ForumAncientCoins.

    FORUMANCIENTCOINS
    I don't know Josh very well but I do know has has an excellent reputation. I would recommend him also.
    I do know Joe and he is great guy. Knowledgeable. And alot of reputable numismatists on his message boards and great coins on his site.
    Either guy will be more than happy to answer questions and help guide you in the collecting direction you are looking for.

    Doug
    The Faustina Collector
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks all.
  • jskirwinjskirwin Posts: 700 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I have them slabbed (not popular with Ancients collectors). >>



    What do ancient collectors have against grading? Just curious...
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What do ancient collectors have against grading? Just curious... >>


    Not grading, just slabs. They like to see and feel all three sides of a coin.

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    >>> Not grading, just slabs. They like to see and feel all three sides of a coin.

    I like to see and feel all three sides of my ancients too, and I do have quite a few ancients unslabbed.

    BUT,

    I have a few VERY SPECIAL ones with that special 'Irridescent Cabinet Toning' look that I feel the slab protects them better. Some of them are just plain AWESOME and I don't feel the slab hurts them in any way either visually or otherwise. Plus, the ones in GOLD are slabbed and the Authenticity in that case makes it worth it. There are quite a few counterfeit Ancients to be found (especially in Gold).

    If you saw them in hand, you would know what I mean...

    ((( A small sample )))

    image
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where would one find pop reports? Especially since so many of these ancients are not in slabs.
  • JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    Pop Reports are meaningless with Ancients.

    The reports are used to substantiate condition rarity and to demand higher prices for high grade material.

    Also, there are no price guides for ancients differentiating XF45 pricing with AU50 (nor should there be). Pricing on ancients matters less with a grading number, than it does with a High Relief strike, nice centering, eye appeal...

    Who cares if it grades AU50 instead of AU55... There are only a few graded anyways and a small certified Population is misleading...
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will this change in the future?
  • JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    The trend I see is the beginnings of Market Acceptability for certified ancients. This is probably because of the increased amount of fakes available and people feel more comfortable with a cert.

    The argument of liking to hold your ancient was the same argument from years ago with ALL coins. Eventually slabs were acceptable for the high-end coins. Of course, there are still MANY raw coins available (if you feel the need to hold them) and I see that trend starting for Ancients. The majority of ancients will still be Raw, but some of the more expensive ones will make it into holders.

    But, I doubt there will be much need for a Pop Report anytime soon.
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the insight.
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Returning to the original post, any new insights from others?
  • Nice coins JZ. image
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Didn't realize it was back in 2006 that I first started this thread. Welcome any input from those in the know as to where we have come in three years.
  • Somehow I got an email announcing the original post and didn't see the replies until after typing my reply. I can't open any of the others' links as they seem to be all broken.

    I will agree that slabbing can protect coins although have really not slabbed mine.

    On ancient gold:

    While I don't specialize in ancient gold I have a few pieces. One has to be careful as there is some gold which is quite common but also some rarities in this area. I do have the rarer variety of the Roman Otho aureus (Victoria Othonis good VF). I'd love to get a nice "eyes upward" Constantine solidus: I'm not sure if those correspond to his 20th year anniversary issue in 326? Any help?.

    About 1.5 years ago I lost a strong bid on one of those Miletus electrum staters (one of the earliest coins) some people went crazy for the coin & it went for around $15K. Also I've noticed that a Portrait aureus of Julius Caesar (VF) went for a very reasonable price out of CNG this past NYIC (Jan '09). I think this year at NYIC should be interesting: a lot of out of work investment analysts selling their portfolios of rarities?

    In the past 3 years I haven't gotten any ancient gold. I did get an EXF Roman denarius: the Sulla portrait issue of 54 BC. Also I bought some rare circulated gold 8 escudos and some common mint state 8 E's but of course those aren't ancients.


    some of my collection
    I collect Ancients and early Independence Era Latin American.
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Somehow I got an email announcing the original post and didn't see the replies until after typing my reply. I can't open any of the others' links as they seem to be all broken.

    I will agree that slabbing can protect coins although have really not slabbed mine.

    On ancient gold:

    While I don't specialize in ancient gold I have a few pieces. One has to be careful as there is some gold which is quite common but also some rarities in this area. I do have the rarer variety of the Roman Otho aureus (Victoria Othonis good VF). I'd love to get a nice "eyes upward" Constantine solidus: I'm not sure if those correspond to his 20th year anniversary issue in 326? Any help?.

    About 1.5 years ago I lost a strong bid on one of those Miletus electrum staters (one of the earliest coins) some people went crazy for the coin & it went for around $15K. Also I've noticed that a Portrait aureus of Julius Caesar (VF) went for a very reasonable price out of CNG this past NYIC (Jan '09). I think this year at NYIC should be interesting: a lot of out of work investment analysts selling their portfolios of rarities?

    In the past 3 years I haven't gotten any ancient gold. I did get an EXF Roman denarius: the Sulla portrait issue of 54 BC. Also I bought some rare circulated gold 8 escudos and some common mint state 8 E's but of course those aren't ancients.




    Thanks for the update and posting again on this thread after three years. An interesting observation that some ancient gold can be quite common but also some rarities. Certainly adds to the challenge of collecting in this area.

  • coverscovers Posts: 624
    I have only a couple Roman gold coins amongst my Romans (Forum pics here).

    I believe that grading on ancients, like stamps to a degree, is problematic because collectors value different aspects more highly so that a resultant single number is not an accurate aid in determing value. I seek well struck coins that are centered and have all inscriptions clear. I don't care if some coin is "as struck" in perfect condition with design off the flan. For my quality of gold coin in the Romans there isn't much available under $4,000 really. If you can kick your per coin limit to $10,000 or $15,000 you won't be frustrated if you seek quality.

    As a final point, because of the diverse market where many specialists collect not based on quality as primary focus, I feel the market prices for the top quality pieces is not as high as it would be in a more mature market where quality/rarity becomes the supreme market determinant.

    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • SYRACUSIANSYRACUSIAN Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    As a final point, because of the diverse market where many specialists collect not based on quality as primary focus, I feel the market prices for the top quality pieces is not as high as it would be in a more mature market where quality/rarity becomes the supreme market determinant. >>





    Are you telling us that this is a great time to grab as many top quality gold ancients as we can or else we'll regret it in a few years? image
    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
  • coverscovers Posts: 624
    I collect because I love the history. I sure can't afford to be buying Roman gold.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Covers, those are some stunning pieces. Even nicer than many of the higher quality pieces I've seen for sale on CNGs website.
  • SYRACUSIANSYRACUSIAN Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭
    I too am amazed by the consistent top quality of cover's Roman collection.
    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
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