I'm starting to feel really bad for the Royals and their fans...
onlyanumber
Posts: 2,433
in Sports Talk
They had a 6 run lead and lost the game...I know it is somewhat expected nowadays in Royals land, but I really feel bad for the Royal faithful.
On a side note, I've voted about 500 times already for Alex Gordon for the MLB all-star team.
On a side note, I've voted about 500 times already for Alex Gordon for the MLB all-star team.
Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
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The men who own these teams are highly successful businessmen, and they see the futility in spending $20-$30 million more on payroll. They know the results will be a team that still finishes under .500, or maybe just near.
I know the baseball 'purists' will say they should sell the team to an owner who 'wants' to win, but then, you end up with a Marlins situation where they pay out tons of money for payroll one year, then dismantle the team the next.
Neither situation lends itself to the long term health of baseball.
some of you guys think you know business. lol
and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with.
then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve
<< <i>Well, get on the phone and tell the Owner that the Yanks would be willing to trade STARS for prospects! It'll be like the good ole days! >>
ToppsCo1lector,
You, my friend, know your baseball. It was before I was born, but didn't the KC Athletics get 'dubbed' as the minor league NYY farm system? Roger Maris comes to mind, I know there were others, but I know I've heard that allegation before. Toss me a few more names to refresh my memory.
<< <i>baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
some of you guys think you know business. lol
and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with.
then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve >>
I would love to hear someone argue that huge payroll disparities are better, in the long run, for a sports league than a salary cap.
<< <i>baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
some of you guys think you know business. lol >>
But only in recent history has the disparity in payrolls been as significant as they are now. You, as a NY (mets and yankee) 'fan' are unable to see through this.
<< <i>and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with. >>
And then those great players will sign for more money with big market teams, leaving the D'Rays to start over. It's a vicious cycle that isn't going to change anytime soon.
<< <i>then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve >>
Oh WP you try so hard to be witty. Yes, in consecutive years, Seattle lost 3 future hall of famers. Your point is? Arod signed for ridiculous money, Griffey wanted to be closer to home, and Unit was thought to be a health risk.
People who are fans of the big market teams love the current situation, as they know 1/3 - 1/2 of the teams provide no real competition for postseason play. And the luxury tax money they pay is essentially payola to keep those small market teams from paying their players.
Please, WP, tell me how a huge discrepency in payroll between the top and bottom is healthy for the league as a whole?
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, get on the phone and tell the Owner that the Yanks would be willing to trade STARS for prospects! It'll be like the good ole days! >>
ToppsCo1lector,
You, my friend, know your baseball. It was before I was born, but didn't the KC Athletics get 'dubbed' as the minor league NYY farm system? Roger Maris comes to mind, I know there were others, but I know I've heard that allegation before. Toss me a few more names to refresh my memory. >>
Check out the story of Ralph Terry(SP). Arnold Johnson is a name you'll like to look up, he was the owner from 54-60 when he passed away.
Mark Mulder rookies
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Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
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Your attitude toward baseball economics is quite astounding. I pictured you as a person with common sense and a dose of practicality.
No one said that we haven't made poor moves in scouting, development, etc.......
Seriously, baseball HAS been fine for 100 years, but the economic disparity has been a problem for the past 10 years or so. It's too bad you can't see that.......as it's attitudes like yours that are beginning to ruin the game of baseball.
Dal
There is never ever going to be a legit argument against one.
<< <i>
<< <i>baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
some of you guys think you know business. lol
and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with.
then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve >>
I would love to hear someone argue that huge payroll disparities are better, in the long run, for a sports league than a salary cap. >>
You won't hear me saying that. I wish baseball would come up with a salary cap - it would be better for the game in the long run, and give some of these teams that have no chance (Royals etc.) a chance. It's easy to come out against a cap is you are a fan of the "haves" rather than a fan of the "have-nots".
<< <i>MLB needs a salary cap.
There is never ever going to be a legit argument against one. >>
Apparently Steve thinks he has one. I'll be interested to hear it.
We all anxiously await your argument AGAINST a salary cap, WP.
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Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
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You know something needs to change when the ESPN guys wonder which "money team" (direct quote from sportscenter) will pickup Dontrelle Willis or Roger Clemens.
There is no good reason that the same teams every season wind up in the playoffs simply because they spent more money than the rest of the teams in the league.
A lot of people look at Oakland as a team that wins without the huge payroll... while that may be true to some extent, Oakland has had a huge advantage that few other teams have. They are in a division with only 4 teams, 20% less competition. They also had a group of fantastic young players from drafting and trading well, but they have consistently lost their best players to other teams that simply offered ridiculous free agent contracts or were forced to trade them knowing they would be unable to afford to resign them. Tejada, Damon, Giambi, Hudson, Mulder, Isringhausen, Koch (back when he was good)... it's a pretty unbelievable list.
Baseball needs a cap if they are ever going to bring back competitive baseball throughout all markets, not just in the major ones.
You have posted on this forum, yet you still won't announce your theory as to why wide payroll disparities are good for baseball.
I simply said baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
How do you come up with some of the stuff you say?
Not one mention of payroll disparity etc.
Steve
Steve
That is an effing lie!
I just got back online at 4pm. I left at around 9am
I did not realise that my quip was taken so hard.
Steve
Oh, and the last I checked, most of these poor poor teams (for example the Royals) have very wealthy ownership. As much as there is a cry for a cap, there should be a cry to FORCE these owners to at least TRY and be competitive. With a competitive team come the fans, parking sales, food sales, and heftier radio and TV deals, etc.
I bet you Royal fans miss EWING KAUFFMAN who had no problem spending his money to field great Royal teams who drew great crowds.
Go ahead small market apologists. Keep crying about how these teams have NO CHANCE to compete. Most do, they just DON'T
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My statement that baseball has been fine for 100 yr.s was then twisted by boo and then like a fright train everyone climbed aboard.
Then Axhole sits there and boldy lies that i have been sitting here all day online knowing I was called out. he is a freaking LIAR.
So Boo, where exactly did I say it?
or did you just assume I meant that?
Steve
What if the money that was to be given to teams such as the Royals was to be put in a seperate account for that team, to be used later on to resign their own players when free agency comes along ? I am using the Royals for obvious reasons in this thread. Lets say the few teams like the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, etc that pay out put the money into the Royals " fund ". For arguments sake, lets say the fund accumulates $20 million a season. Since its in the fund it can be monitored and tracked, instead of us all wondering where its going to, and when the time comes for a team like the Royals to try and keep potential young talent from leaving via free agency they can then and ONLY then use the money that was put into their fund. It may not solve all the problems, but it may be a step in the right direction, and could certainly help a small market team hold on to a few players they may normally lose out on.
-- Yogi Berra
?Apparently Steve thinks he has one. I'll be interested to hear it.
Boo, with all due respect, I'd be interested to hear how you came to the conclusion that i had a plan.
From this?
baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
some of you guys think you know business. lol
and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with.
then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve
No where did I make any such claim. No where did I say payroll disparity was good for the game.
Hopefully you will show me where.
Thanks.
Steve
edited to add: Boo just the other day you claimed you do not even read my posts anymore. Yet today you are all over me, claiming I made statements (that i did not) so my question is simply this. were you FOS then? or just FOS now or FOS both times?
What really bothers us, is that we have zero chance, once FA hits, to sign the "big-name" players. It has become a running joke on ESPN and other stations about "which big-market team" will sign "free agent X".
I still don't think a cap, by itself would solve everything. It would help, but the whole system needs to be really looked-at. And I think most honest baseball fans (big or small market) understand that there are a few things that could be adjusted to make the game better for all the fans.
STEVE - I apologize if I read too much into your initial statement. You are correct, baseball has done very well for 100 years without a cap. Just please remember that we're in a place now, in terms of salaries, drugs, etc etc, that baseball has never seen before......and maybe things could be better if "tweaked" a bit.
Again, I apologize for jumping on your opinion.
Dal
what happens to the billion dollars that fox and nbc or whoever paid MLB?
also local tv /radio deals should also be divided up.
The money that the larger markets get for the local tv should go into a kitty and all should get an rqual share.
being like most here and not knowing the BUSINESS I'd like to know.
Steve
edited to add:
no prob Dal
thanks for understanding.
<< <i>I have said before that all money from TV should be divided up equally between the teams.
what happens to the billion dollars that fox and nbc or whoever paid MLB?
also local tv /radio deals should also be divided up.
The money that the larger markets get for the local tv should go into a kitty and all should get an rqual share.
thanks for understanding. >>
Why should it be fair? A bigger drawing team should get a bigger share of the pot. The MLB needs a Salary minimum AND a Salary Cap just like the NHL and NFL have, it keeps a competitive balance. Why reward teams that clearly are interested in getting free money from successful franchises? Yes, revenue sharing is a great idea but unless they are used for the team they are just lining pockets.
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<< <i>Boo
?Apparently Steve thinks he has one. I'll be interested to hear it.
Boo, with all due respect, I'd be interested to hear how you came to the conclusion that i had a plan.
From this?
baseball has been just fine for over 100 years.
some of you guys think you know business. lol
and btw the drays are doing just fine, they are a team that in a few short years will be a force to reckon with.
then, the best players will earn free agency, and wind up in boston, La, St louis, chicago or NY. The best, do not gravitate to places like seattle. edited to add: they leave places like seattle.
Steve
No where did I make any such claim. No where did I say payroll disparity was good for the game.
Hopefully you will show me where.
Thanks.
Steve
edited to add: Boo just the other day you claimed you do not even read my posts anymore. Yet today you are all over me, claiming I made statements (that i did not) so my question is simply this. were you FOS then? or just FOS now or FOS both times? >>
Well then, tell us what you did mean. I assume that anyone who would take the time to announce that 'baseball's been fine for the past 100 years' would have a reason for saying so, and the obvious reason-- given the context of the thread-- is that you thought the salary structure was fine. You then go on to say how the DRays are 'fine', and will be a 'force' in a couple years-- the insinuation being that the Devil Rays' competitive prospects are not crippled by the current salary structure of MLB.
If you want to tell us what you 'did' mean, as opposed to what you didn't mean, this whole debate will be ended much quicker.
And for the record, I happily skip over any thread where you and Axtell trade prepubescent insults ('cement head', etc.) for 50 posts, and you, for one, should feel at least a little ashamed at spending much of your posting time knee deep in these little lover's quarrels. As, of course, should Axtell.
<< <i>I have said before that all money from TV should be divided up equally between the teams.
what happens to the billion dollars that fox and nbc or whoever paid MLB?
also local tv /radio deals should also be divided up.
The money that the larger markets get for the local tv should go into a kitty and all should get an rqual share.
being like most here and not knowing the BUSINESS I'd like to know.
Steve
edited to add:
no prob Dal
thanks for understanding. >>
That is a fine and reasonable proposal, and I do thank you for clarifying your position on this matter. FWIW I now consider it closed, and I apologize if I misinterpreted your earlier post.
<< <i>The MLB needs a Salary minimum AND a Salary Cap just like the NHL and NFL have, it keeps a competitive balance. >>
Important point - a salary minimum is also needed. That would require owners of teams like the Royals, Marlins, and whomever else to put a team on the field that could at least compete through most of the season, and not just rely on what revenue sharing provides for them. To say the game has worked fine this way for 100 years doesn't really make sense, unless you want to completely ignore the changes made over the last 10-15 years, and the amazing payroll disparities that now exist which never did before (to this extent). When one player (A-Rod) makes more than the entire Marlins team in a given season, that has to be the sign of a problematic system.
ahh excuse me boo, but my post was the 4th one in. context of the thread had yet to be getermined . That is until you came along.
the first 2 posters make no mention of salary cap.
axhole did. my reply was in essence that good players gravitate to large markets for more reasons then money. that they leave places like seattle. that they enjoy playing for Chicago, LA, etc
I even went so far as to say that the drays will be a force to reckon with.
I now reply (like i have before, in previous threads ) that money should in fact be divided up. but even if that happens it is no guarantee that free agents will go to places like seattle.
And, since you earlier claimed that you do not read my posts anymore I did not at the time think to myself that i should be more specific since Boo might misinterpret me.
I hope now that I have clarified my pos. in these matters.
Steve
<< <i>good players gravitate to large markets for more reasons then money. that they leave places like seattle. that they enjoy playing for Chicago, LA, etc >>
Steve, I am not piling on this, but I strongly disagree with the above. Money is the only reason that good players gravitate to New York, Boston, Chicago etc. Money, and a chance to win a championship - which is a direct result of being the team with the most money.
I'd bet a lot of players would prefer to win and make a competitive salary in small town markets if they could. But, that's the problem.
with all due respect in your reply you contradict yourself.
You say:
they move ONLY for money, then in the next breath AND to win championships.
My reply was a simple one. Players IMO gravitate to large markets for more reasons then money. Not sure where I said they do not go for money. I said for more reasons. money being one of them I guess i should have said "other'?
jeese it is getting to the point where you need a lawyer inorder to get your point across.
SD
<< <i>You then go on to say how the DRays are 'fine', and will be a 'force' in a couple years-- the insinuation being that the Devil Rays' competitive prospects are not crippled by the current salary structure of MLB. >>
Unfortunately the Devil Rays will probably not survive in their current situation.
Yes the team is getting better and they are slowly increasing attendance, but they most likely will not win the foot race to relocation or dissolution.
Why?
The Marlins will get a new field before Tampa. Plans are already in place and the details need to be negotiated.
The Devil Rays field is in St. Pete, a good 3/4 hour or more drive from the real market in Tampa. The other Tampa teams do well and of course they have shorter schedules or smaller venues, but the Tampa people will not drive to the D'rays field on a regular basis. The Tampa area is expanding north and east of the city which is even farther away.
MLB will not leave Florida without at least one team. It really is a shame because the southwest area of Florida from Tampa down (where I live) is growing by leaps and bounds. But, politically and financially Miami will rule when it comes time to cut a team.
It will be close, especially if the D'rays continue to improve. However if they do not get a field closer to Tampa I believe that before 2010 they will announce plans to move.
you make valid points, BUT at the same time since 2000 we have seen 10 different teams make it to the world series.
were they all large market teams??
Steve
<< <i>baseball has been just fine for over 100 years. >>
This is your saying huge payroll disparities are a good thing, 'just fine' means you think the current system of disparity is a good one (and do you think it's because you 'root' for the mets and yankees, 2 of the top spenders in all of baseball? Hmmmmm?)
why is it that everyone else can agree with that but you?
Oh I know you're a freaking psychic.
Steve
You got caught with your pants down, and you don't want to either (a) fess up that you were wrong or (b) admit that you're selfish and you want the current system in play because it gives your teams an advantage.
what part of that don't you understand?
I did not say the current system of huge disparities is fine.
I said baseball has been fine for over 100 years. what part of that don't you get?
stop reading into what people say.
I made no such claims.
My pants down? you mean like you so often do?
Steve
However, to further disprove the idea that players won't go somewhere strictly due to the market, let's use Detroit as an example. The city of Detroit is one of the most decrepit cities in the US. It's a dangerous place in most areas, even a very short distance from the ballpark. 99% of the local Michigan residents who attend games at Comerica Park do not have an address in the city of Detroit.
For years, the Tigers have stunk. Horrible owner, executives, players... it all added up to a abysmal team for over a decade. No one wanted to play for the Tigers because it was obvious that there was no committment to winning or even improving the team.
All the while, the Red Wings and Pistons have been very successful teams, winning multiple championships... and players were lining up to come here and we could pick and choose, and it wasn't even about the money, they wanted to be a part of a good organization that was committed to being successful.
There is no doubt in my mind, that is the case with every city in every sport... it's all about the organizational committment to success moreso than the money the vast majority of the time.
By saying the current system is fine means you embrace the current system. For slowpokes like you, that current system means huge inequities in payroll.
Don't feel too bad. After losing 14 straight they just beat the Yankees. Ha Ha. What an embarrassment for the Spankees.
More then 6 hours after he was told i did not say what he accused me of, and after EVERYONE else that thought the same thing had moved on, and accepted what I did mean, he has to repost about it. Not like he was not online during that time and could have replied within 10 minutes. No he in this last post accuses (baits) me of being slow. Yet it took him 6 hrs to digest what i had said in what was at the time my last post in this matter. he then repeats over and over what he thinks I meant, thinking that if he says it enough times it will become fact.
People make a statement and he ,in his infinate wisdom has this special power to read minds.
perfect example here. I simply said that baseball has been fine for 100 years. what does this guy do? he adds his thoughts to my reply thereby insinuating that what i said was what he thinks.
I then explain myself a few times (sorry boo) hoping to get through that cement head of his.
6 hours later....................it took that long for my last post to sink in.
and I'm slow?
Steve
It took him six hours to look through all of those magazines and cut out the words needed for his post.
Bet he has every post for the last year pasted on the walls of his bedroom.
Yes...he is the Unaposter.
Steve
You thought I was going to let you off the hook simply because I wasn't online for those precious 6 hours?
Look, you made a completely ridiculous statement, you got called out on it, and you aren't even man enough to admit that either (a) you were wrong or (b) you stick with your story.
You said, and I quote:
' baseball has been just fine for over 100 years'
Nowhere in your post did you state that payroll inequities should be changed. I am sorry you are unable to man up to your post.
So which is it? Do you embrace the current inequities of payroll, or are you in favor of a salary cap in which all teams play on the same level?
let me off what hook?
you are a dreamer pal.
So if you don't agree with the current system of huge disparities, then why say that it's fine?
I said baseball was fine, i made no mention of salary disparity. why is it that everyone understands that? But you? This proves one of two things (or both) , You either want to fight with me, or are too stupid to understand. Am I clear now? My comment had NOTHING to do with payroll disparity. It was a general remark that baseball has been fine for over 100 years. Do you get it now? Or do you have some sort of mancrush on me that you have to keep asking the same thing over and over?
Boo, and you wonder why I call this guy cement head.
Steve
Exactly, nowhere in my post did I mention anything about payroll.
Jeese you are dense.
Steve