<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
If you want to discuss this with Pete, I'm sure he can be found in a casino or race track.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
If you want to discuss this with Pete, I'm sure he can be found in a casino or race track. >>
Yea...ain't that the truth! LOL
And I happen to like Pete Rose. I mean at the very least, he helped guide my Phillies to a World Series and I'll always be grateful for that. But come on Pete...quit blaming this guy or that guy or whatever circumstances, and stop crying about not being in the Hall when you have only yourself to blame. Frankly, there's no doubt in my mind that the "main reason" he does cry about this situation is to generate publicity for himself to earn more money, especially right after he publishes his latest book.
This is a portion of an article talking a bit about Rose:
<<< He later took heat for selling autographed baseballs with the inscription, "I'm Sorry I Bet on Baseball," but earlier Pete Rose told CNBC about his betting habits as manager of the Reds: "I didn't make a bet and go out and say, 'OK, guys, we got to win tonight, you know, because I'm betting on you' - because I bet on them every night." Rose also said in the interview: "I believe I'm baseball's best ambassador, and they want nothing to do with me. I mean, I'm in Las Vegas 15 days a month just holding babies, taking pictures with grandmas at the Field of Dreams store (in the Forum Shops), just talking positive about the game of baseball, and there's so many people talking negative about the game now because they're letting the game get away from them with this drug stuff ¦" >>>
Pete continues with his BS...he's making money for appearances at the the "Field of Dreams" store located in Las Vegas and I believe this store is located in a Casino-Hotel. Does Pete Rose "love" the game of baseball? Of course he does but more so, he loves gambling and loves the money aspect of making money off the game.
What my fellow Eagles fan 1420 and many others don't understand, which should be understood, is that if Rose's team when he was managing, would have gotten into the World Series, there could have been, and I believe most likely would have been, a gambling scandal so bad, it would have made the Black Sox scandal look like a Sunday School picnic. Considering Rose's ties to organized crime with the money he owed from betting with them, and for reasons of his addiction and his greed, really...there isn't any doubt in my mind that he would have "altered" or even fixed some games, if not possibly every game.
Would I like to see Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame? Of course I would. But as long as Rose continues to consort with gamblers who would bet against baseball in a second to make a nickel similar to Arnold Rothstein, then Rose will never get in. By doing this he knowingly continues to anger those responsible for him being able to get voted into the Hall.
In a world that is loosing or lost its grip on what is Moral and Why, "Why Petey is not amoung the greats " is just another version of the always popular " Kill the messinger but not the message ". It doesn't matter to this sub-class of people. They don't want whats best, only whats easy or convient or the ever dreaded " It might hurt someones feelings " . If someone murders someone, we must protect their rights. Screw the BABY or person that just got slautered or the people who just lost their dad or whoever. This dosn't apply to shooting a pregnant deer or a women that says it okay for her fetus ( not baby ) to live. Then its evil . I remember during the 1989 World Series, there was an earthquake. Later that night, there was massive looting of the dead bodies of the people crushed under the collapsed ramps. Later some Doctor says we should not be so hard on these people , as they have had a tough life. So whether we're talking about crime or abortion or any of the other controversial issues of our times , if you can only imagine " imaginive solutions " instead of real solutions, let the Hell on earth begin. PETE ROSE BET ON HIS OWN TEAM. If you can't see what wrong with that, your in good company.
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
Agreed, maybe the rider of " Broomstick one " if she gets elected will pardon him then pressure the writers to do it for the good of people like herself.
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
I don't know that he needs to become an active anti-gambling spokesman, but he needs to at least admit the problem and seek help. Pretty much anyone connected with baseball will tell you that it's not the gambling itself, it's the denial and refusal to get help for it that are keeping him out of the game. I think baseball would welcome a rehabilitated Pete Rose back to the game with open arms. But rehabilitating Pete Rose begins with Pete Rose, and he's refused so far.
Rose likes to invoke the late Steve Howe in his martyr complex, saying that Howe gets several chances and Rose gets none, that you can be busted for drugs N times and gambling zero times. The differences are twofold: (a) Howe's mistakes didn't undermine the integrity of the game on the field in terms of questions about trying to win and lose; (b) Howe didn't remain in harsh denial of a problem when faced with evidence to the contrary.
Yes, gambling is a "sin" against baseball. But most of the people who have commented on it and are in the game have said, very clearly, that all Rose needs to do is admit it, apologize for it *sincerely*, and agree to get help for his addiction. But he won't do it, since he's either too proud or too stupid. As long as that remains, his ban should remain intact. As for the Hall, that's the HOF's call, not baseball's. Baseball doesn't set the rules for eligibility to Cooperstown. But the HOF (not baseball) has decided not to allow "ineligible" players on the ballot. The HOF could allow Rose on the ballot without baseball reinstating him, but the HOF has chosen not to change their rules about getting on the ballot.
To get a second chance, you first need to admit you screwed up the first chance.
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
I don't know that he needs to become an active anti-gambling spokesman, but he needs to at least admit the problem and seek help. Pretty much anyone connected with baseball will tell you that it's not the gambling itself, it's the denial and refusal to get help for it that are keeping him out of the game. I think baseball would welcome a rehabilitated Pete Rose back to the game with open arms. But rehabilitating Pete Rose begins with Pete Rose, and he's refused so far.
Rose likes to invoke the late Steve Howe in his martyr complex, saying that Howe gets several chances and Rose gets none, that you can be busted for drugs N times and gambling zero times. The differences are twofold: (a) Howe's mistakes didn't undermine the integrity of the game on the field in terms of questions about trying to win and lose; (b) Howe didn't remain in harsh denial of a problem when faced with evidence to the contrary.
Yes, gambling is a "sin" against baseball. But most of the people who have commented on it and are in the game have said, very clearly, that all Rose needs to do is admit it, apologize for it *sincerely*, and agree to get help for his addiction. But he won't do it, since he's either too proud or too stupid. As long as that remains, his ban should remain intact. As for the Hall, that's the HOF's call, not baseball's. Baseball doesn't set the rules for eligibility to Cooperstown. But the HOF (not baseball) has decided not to allow "ineligible" players on the ballot. The HOF could allow Rose on the ballot without baseball reinstating him, but the HOF has chosen not to change their rules about getting on the ballot.
To get a second chance, you first need to admit you screwed up the first chance. >>
I agree with you that the spokesman thing wouldn't be "mandatory" but it would I believe result in expediting things quicker for Rose.
Rose had been to a few Gamblers Anonymous meetings and tried "recovery" but didn't think it fitted him. He doesn't see himself as a compulsive gambler even though he clearly fits every definition of one. Rose of course is in a "unique" sort of position whereby his name is just about a license to print money with autograph signings and appearances. So it's doubtful that Rose will ever be broke which isn't the case for 99.999% of compulsive gamblers out there.
Rose is very lucky that some bookie he stiffed didn't take a tire iron to his kneecaps. Years ago, I was involved in various gambling activities in the Philly area, and I'll never talk about any specifics of what I've seen and heard, but suffice to say that it's a very bad idea to stiff bookies, and especially "connected" bookies. I guess these bookies felt that "doing something" to Rose could result in bad publicity and probable arrests to them, so they left him alone.
Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible.
<< <i>Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible. >>
Sure. The bottom line is that Rose has never seemed *sincerely* sorry for his actions and has never really seemed to be doing anything more than going through the motions. His statements have made it sound like he thinks HE is the victim, as if there's some grand plot in baseball to discredit him. Why would baseball WANT to disenfranchise its all-time hit king? What motivation does MLB have to shut him out without legitimate reason? There are 4,256 reasons why MLB would WANT Rose to be a part of the game. But he has to do three things:
(1) Unequivocally admit that he has a gambling problem. (2) SINCERELY appear contrite for what his actions did to the perception of the game. (3) Get help -- serious help -- and follow through on it.
He sort of weaseled around (1), bristled at (2) and avoided (3).
I still believe MLB is, and will be continue to be, ready to welcome Rose back into the baseball family if all three of these conditions are clearly met. But MLB can't force Rose to do what he's unwilling and/or unable to do.
If any of ya'll missed it, watch Rose's interview on Stephen A. Smiths show. Very upfront with everything. He deserves to go IN THE HOF AS A PLAYER!
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i>Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible. >>
Sure. The bottom line is that Rose has never seemed *sincerely* sorry for his actions and has never really seemed to be doing anything more than going through the motions. His statements have made it sound like he thinks HE is the victim, as if there's some grand plot in baseball to discredit him. Why would baseball WANT to disenfranchise its all-time hit king? What motivation does MLB have to shut him out without legitimate reason? There are 4,256 reasons why MLB would WANT Rose to be a part of the game. But he has to do three things:
(1) Unequivocally admit that he has a gambling problem. (2) SINCERELY appear contrite for what his actions did to the perception of the game. (3) Get help -- serious help -- and follow through on it.
He sort of weaseled around (1), bristled at (2) and avoided (3).
I still believe MLB is, and will be continue to be, ready to welcome Rose back into the baseball family if all three of these conditions are clearly met. But MLB can't force Rose to do what he's unwilling and/or unable to do. >>
LOL not this again. Either you love or hate Pete. Most here seem to think it is a SIN to bet on baseball. WHY??? I think the reason it was declared a "sin" was back in the day when outcome of games were possibly related to gambling. I also believe Pete bet as player and coach, doubtful he got addicted after his playing days. That being said SO WHAT!!! He didnt alter games and force outcomes. He didnt add total shame to the greats like Ruth,Aaron, Mays,Robinson and more. He didnt get numerous chances on drug and other criminal charges. But he bet on baseball. He takes the total blame for being an Ass there is not arguing that point, but this is about stats not character. Look at it this way Mac, Bonds, Sosa ruined the entire game from the start of records to the present. I believe if not for roids Sosa would be an unknown 185lb minor league journeyman that had a few cups of coffee in the bigs. Hell, he probably would have picked up English better to interview for sales jobs by the mid 90's. The funny thing is there is talk that Mac wont get in to the Hall on the first ballot(which he won't), but where is the talk that he wont get in at all(which he will). It is not there. Another free pass probably same for Bonds because what they didnt was not a SIN. What is wrong is wrong and the Hall can go to hell. If I were Pete I would just say F U.... The Hall of Shame is not the great place some might think. If Pete wants to gamble and screw up his life, so be it.
FACTS Pete bet on baseball Pete is an Ass Pete cant open his mouth without making things worse Pete cant stay out of a casino or track for more than a day Pete is an ass(whoops did that) Pete lies and changes his story Pete was a terrible husband
PETE IS THE GREATEST HITTER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME "THE HIT KING"
stevek, very well stated. Rose and his apologists refuse to understand the ramifications of his actions and Rose likely never will. For as big of a clown Bud Selig has turned out to be as commissioner, I will always see his term as a success because of his hardline stance regarding Petey Rose.
I believe Pete Rose should be enshrined in the Hall of Fame; however, in my opinion, they should let him in the year after he dies, and Joe Jackson should get in before him.
Here is my two cents on Pete Rose. No doubt, he gambled. Yes, it is against Baseball Rules. "THE GOLDEN RULE" if you will.
With that said, look at the some of the people in the hall-Guys who played dirty, boozed it up every night, got in all kinds of fights, (would anyone doubt they had prostitutes), Beat their wives and girlfriends, committed all kinds of illegal acts and (HERE COMES THE KICKER!) GAMBLED among hundreds of other shenanigans!
Now, I don't care what you want to say about "Oh, but Rose Gambled on Baseball, Though!". Please.....spare me! If you think that none of the other players in the Hall of Fame never bet on Baseball even AFTER they were done playing, well......you are pretty naive! There are many known "RECEIPTS" with several players in the Hall, that gambled and gambled on baseball as well.
I think it is time that the people that are in power, get a grip, get a life and forget about what they THINK they know or even if they have the proof that Pete gambled-Do whatever you want to do with his, but for cryin' out loud, put him in the hall ! Ban him from the hall, baseball, whatever, but, Pete belongs in the hall (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!)
There is one easy explanation why Pete Rose is out and other "bad guys" are in.......
Pete messed with The Integrity of The Game.....gambling for or against your team (when you bet for a win 5 days out of the week , the 2 days you dont bet for your team is essentially a bet against your team) hurts the Integrity of the game...
the Babe, Cobb, Mantle, and those other HArd party guys/ and other wife beating guys -Puckett-- DID NOT MESS WITH THE INTEGRITY of THE GAME...Mantle only hurt himself by being a drunk....it didnt hurt baseball.........
You see the difference....i get pretty tired of the PETE ROSE should be in the Hall speeches.. Mattingly, now that is a class act who should be in the Hall!
they should induct him construct a very small room in Cooperstown HOF just for him take a life-size Pete doll wearing a Reds uniform and put it in a chair the chair would be in the corner life-size Pete would be sitting in the chair with his back to the admiring throng
they could hang a teeny lil' gambling sheet on the wall where he is facing just to taunt him to think, i idolized the guy when i was a kid......he doesn't belong, he broke the rules, EOS
Mattingly, now that is a class act who should be in the Hall!
Even Donnie Baseball himself was quoted in the NY papers after last week's HOF vote that he did not think he played long enough to be worthy of the HOF.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Rose was a jerk, but he could play. He was dirty on and off the field, but he gave it his all. He was unfriendly, rude, and a big mouth, but he was one of the best clutch hitters in the game. He has really mellowed out but has done and said some stupid things recently. Does he belong, hell ya. Do I care if he makes it in? Ya, because he dominated the hit numbers throughout the 60's and 70's. I saw him play several times. I also went to a card show where many people paid good money to obtain his autograph, only to discover he came early and left even earlier, sticking several hundred fans with worthless tickets. He was a jackass, but he should be there.
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
Pete Rose does not have a gambling problem, he just enjoys gambling.
Rose had some great stats, but you do not need to induct players solely on their stats. You are allowed to look at character and contributions to the game. Many people have the perception that the HOF is for stats, but when I read the criteria, I thought oh well. It is not an injustice leaving Pete Rose out of the HOF.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
I can well I guess I can believe how naive some of you are. The man is an excon, still gambles and by the most generous description he is an egocentric fool. Every day he walked into that clubhouse he walked by a sign the point outed the cardinal sin in baseball, betting on it. I can't believe someone of you would ignore the rules that allow a voter to take into consideration character. If it was important it wouldn't be there. And for those of you who want to characterize those who don't think he should be enshrined as Rose haters, please come up with something better. I don't hate the man, I watched his entire career and admired his achievements. Rose is like so many people who think the world revolve around him, but guess what it doesn't. He broke the cardinal rule of baseball besides being sent to prison.
For all of you apologists of Rose all I can say is move on, it ain't gonna happen. Blame him not the voters.
Pete doesn't need the hall. He's bigger than the hall. His cards trade as if he were in the hall, and his numbers speak for themselves. The real hall of fame exists in baseball fans' minds--Pete is there, and he's there for even the most hardened Rose haters.
WOW , he finally made a liar out of all those people that said he never bet on his own team. What will be their next load of crap , to try to convince the more gullible than themselves, to why this person belongs in the HOF ? What can I say , BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER. Liars will always try to find a way to support a fellow liar. I can't wait until " THE BARRY " retires. The great we need a known cheater in the HOF. All the Raffy, Rose,Clinton, McGwire types will once again crawl out from under their moral rock, and will try to convince the masses with some variation of " WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE US OR YOUR OWN EYES ".
Please guys save the loads of BS for those that love to hear BS. Thats all they want to hear anyway.
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>If any of ya'll missed it, watch Rose's interview on Stephen A. Smiths show. Very upfront with everything. He deserves to go IN THE HOF AS A PLAYER! >>
Did he explain why he pissed all over Eckersly's HOF induction?
"Pete doesn't need the hall. He's bigger than the hall."
nah, he REALLY needs it, it will eat at him forever. He will never get in because he cant repent or take responsibility, he was and still is a pompous jerk, a liar, a cheat and an addict.
What I find hard to believe is the fact that He wont let it go, its painfully obvious that MLB will not allow him in yet he keeps coming forward and owning up to more things that at this point really dont matter.
He's become an embarrassment to himself over the years. How much lower can he go? Enough already!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>He sure is high on himself isnt he! Put him up against todays pitching, he #'s wouldnt be so fancy. >>
Is this a serious statement?
Yeah, those 5.60 ERA's, watered down staffs, and record setting offensive performance in this era have made it really tough on hitters... >>
Absolutely right. Baseball was the #1 game back then which virtually every top athlete aspired to. The ones who couldn't play baseball had to "settle" for football or some other sport. Not today - those strong arm kids wanna be quarterbacks just as well as pitchers, and participating in other sports as well. Those 60's pitchers were brutally tough - and remember guys like Seaver, Ryan and others began in the 60's.
Many athletes have improved from the 60's to this millenium, but it hasn't been pitchers. I'm not sure but it's possible that weight training regimens, which most high school and college kids do today, could possibly affect those throwing tendons in the arm ever so slightly to make them not as good as pitchers in the 60's who probably never lifted a weight in their life.
'When Pete Rose said he always bet on the Reds, he forgot about the games he didn't bet on those with Bill Gullickson pitching.'
By MURRAY CHASS Published: March 16, 2007
Pete Rose still can’t get it right. He said in a radio interview Wednesday that when he managed the Cincinnati Reds in the 1980’s, “I bet on my team every night.”
Pete Rose said Wednesday that he “bet on my team to win every night.” But betting slips showed that he didn’t risk his money when a certain pitcher started.
“I didn’t bet on my team four nights a week,” he added in an interview on Dan Patrick’s show on ESPN radio. “I bet on my team to win every night because I love my team, I believe in my team. I did everything in my power every night to win that game.”
But the 65-year-old Rose, either from selective memory or from advancing age, forgot one player he didn’t believe in — Reds starting pitcher Bill Gullickson, the player whose games Rose basically stopped betting.
Rose’s chronology of his own betting habits has a long history. For 15 years, he denied that he had bet on baseball games when he managed the Reds. To some people, he was very convincing.
Indeed, critics of Rose’s lifetime ban disparaged A. Bartlett Giamatti, the commissioner who banned him; Fay Vincent, Giamatti’s deputy and successor; and John Dowd, the Washington lawyer whose voluminous report nailed Rose. Some of the critics wrote entire books about the Rose scandal, finding fault with the evidence against him.
When Rose, the career leader in major league hits, finally admitted in his 2004 book that he had bet on baseball and established that he had lied for 15 years, few of those critics acknowledged their gullibility. But this isn’t about Rose’s naïve defenders. It’s about Rose getting it wrong — again.
Contrary to what he said in the Wednesday radio interview, Rose did not bet on Reds games nightly. The record Dowd created demonstrated that there were games on which Rose did not bet. It was those games that represented the response to his supporters who said it was no big deal if Rose bet on games as long as he didn’t bet on the Reds to lose.
According to the Dowd report, which included a diary of bets that Rose made on Reds games and many others — it listed bets on 390 games over all, 52 of them involving the Reds, in a three-month period in 1987 — Rose developed a consistency of not betting on certain contests.
In particular, Rose stopped betting on Reds games that Gullickson started. If Rose bet on his team to win other games but didn’t bet on Gullickson’s games, he was sending a signal to the bookies he was betting with that he, as manager of the team, didn’t think much of his team’s chances in those games.
As far as his betting pattern was concerned, Rose might as well have bet against the Reds in those games. Such wagers would have sent the same message to the bookies: “I don’t expect us to win these games.”
In that 1987 period for which Dowd found betting slips, from April 7 to July 4, Rose didn’t withhold his wagering money on all of Gullickson’s games. Initially, Rose fared well in Gullickson’s games. The same couldn’t be said for at least some of the other games Rose bet on.
For example, the records showed that in 69 instances, Rose bet $2,500 or more on a game. Astoundingly, he lost 64 of those 69, which computes to a .072 success rate. Had Rose had that kind of average at the plate, he wouldn’t have lasted long enough to get 200 hits, let alone 200 hits in 10 separate seasons.
As for Gullickson, Rose won the first four times he bet on games the pitcher started. But then he lost two of the next three. The report listed no Rose baseball bets for the ensuing two weeks, a stretch in which Gullickson, a right-hander, started three games.
When the records resumed, they showed that Rose had, for the most part, lost confidence in Gullickson. The manager placed no bets on Gullickson’s next four starts, five of his next six and six of his next eight.
In that span, from May 30 through July 4, the Reds played 25 other games and Rose failed to place a bet on only 3 of those games. Ted Power, Ron Robinson and Guy Hoffman started those games.
The absence of Reds bets in those instances did not mean that Rose had simply taken the day off from wagering. On one occasion, he bet on 10 other games not involving the Reds; in another instance, he bet on 5.
Gullickson, meanwhile, was not completely useless to the Reds, contrary to his manager’s betting strategy. In that period from May 30 to July 4, Gullickson started six games for which there were no betting slips. The Reds won three of the six. In the two games in that period in which Rose did bet with Gullickson on the mound, the Reds split.
But clearly, Rose didn’t have much confidence in Gullickson. And the Reds ended their manager’s quandary by trading Gullickson to the Yankees for Dennis Rasmussen on Aug. 26.
Somehow I have to think he's about the stupidest person alive, everything he's done to get himself in the HOF has made things worse. He's done so many things over the years to shoot himself in the foot.
He agreed to the lifetime ban in 1989 and that should be the end of it. Nothing he has done since then has shown it should be lifted, in fact what he has done since then shows he deserves the ban more than ever.
<< <i>Somehow I have to think he's about the stupidest person alive, everything he's done to get himself in the HOF has made things worse. He's done so many things over the years to shoot himself in the foot. >>
Ironic thing is that by not being in the hall of fame has made himself more well know to a new generation of baseball fans than if he had gone into the hall.
Comments
Rose lied about the gambling and shows no contrition, just continued greed. Keep him out.
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
If you want to discuss this with Pete, I'm sure he can be found in a casino or race track.
<< <i>
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
If you want to discuss this with Pete, I'm sure he can be found in a casino or race track. >>
Yea...ain't that the truth! LOL
And I happen to like Pete Rose. I mean at the very least, he helped guide my Phillies to a World Series and I'll always be grateful for that. But come on Pete...quit blaming this guy or that guy or whatever circumstances, and stop crying about not being in the Hall when you have only yourself to blame. Frankly, there's no doubt in my mind that the "main reason" he does cry about this situation is to generate publicity for himself to earn more money, especially right after he publishes his latest book.
This is a portion of an article talking a bit about Rose:
<<< He later took heat for selling autographed baseballs with the inscription, "I'm Sorry I Bet on Baseball," but earlier Pete Rose told CNBC about his betting habits as manager of the Reds: "I didn't make a bet and go out and say, 'OK, guys, we got to win tonight, you know, because I'm betting on you' - because I bet on them every night." Rose also said in the interview: "I believe I'm baseball's best ambassador, and they want nothing to do with me. I mean, I'm in Las Vegas 15 days a month just holding babies, taking pictures with grandmas at the Field of Dreams store (in the Forum Shops), just talking positive about the game of baseball, and there's so many people talking negative about the game now because they're letting the game get away from them with this drug stuff ¦" >>>
Pete continues with his BS...he's making money for appearances at the the "Field of Dreams" store located in Las Vegas and I believe this store is located in a Casino-Hotel. Does Pete Rose "love" the game of baseball? Of course he does but more so, he loves gambling and loves the money aspect of making money off the game.
What my fellow Eagles fan 1420 and many others don't understand, which should be understood, is that if Rose's team when he was managing, would have gotten into the World Series, there could have been, and I believe most likely would have been, a gambling scandal so bad, it would have made the Black Sox scandal look like a Sunday School picnic. Considering Rose's ties to organized crime with the money he owed from betting with them, and for reasons of his addiction and his greed, really...there isn't any doubt in my mind that he would have "altered" or even fixed some games, if not possibly every game.
Would I like to see Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame? Of course I would. But as long as Rose continues to consort with gamblers who would bet against baseball in a second to make a nickel similar to Arnold Rothstein, then Rose will never get in. By doing this he knowingly continues to anger those responsible for him being able to get voted into the Hall.
Steve
PETE ROSE BET ON HIS OWN TEAM. If you can't see what wrong with that, your in good company.
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<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
I don't know that he needs to become an active anti-gambling spokesman, but he needs to at least admit the problem and seek help. Pretty much anyone connected with baseball will tell you that it's not the gambling itself, it's the denial and refusal to get help for it that are keeping him out of the game. I think baseball would welcome a rehabilitated Pete Rose back to the game with open arms. But rehabilitating Pete Rose begins with Pete Rose, and he's refused so far.
Rose likes to invoke the late Steve Howe in his martyr complex, saying that Howe gets several chances and Rose gets none, that you can be busted for drugs N times and gambling zero times. The differences are twofold: (a) Howe's mistakes didn't undermine the integrity of the game on the field in terms of questions about trying to win and lose; (b) Howe didn't remain in harsh denial of a problem when faced with evidence to the contrary.
Yes, gambling is a "sin" against baseball. But most of the people who have commented on it and are in the game have said, very clearly, that all Rose needs to do is admit it, apologize for it *sincerely*, and agree to get help for his addiction. But he won't do it, since he's either too proud or too stupid. As long as that remains, his ban should remain intact. As for the Hall, that's the HOF's call, not baseball's. Baseball doesn't set the rules for eligibility to Cooperstown. But the HOF (not baseball) has decided not to allow "ineligible" players on the ballot. The HOF could allow Rose on the ballot without baseball reinstating him, but the HOF has chosen not to change their rules about getting on the ballot.
To get a second chance, you first need to admit you screwed up the first chance.
<< <i>
<< <i>Rose is addicted to gambling. Bottom line - The gambling means more to him than being in the Hall. The gambling means more to him than the game of baseball. That is quite obvious. Otherwise he wouldn't have jeopardized it all.
Gambling addiction is a tough addiction. But until he quits gambling, and becomes a spokesman against gambling, there is simply no chance he will get elected to the Hall - case closed. >>
I don't know that he needs to become an active anti-gambling spokesman, but he needs to at least admit the problem and seek help. Pretty much anyone connected with baseball will tell you that it's not the gambling itself, it's the denial and refusal to get help for it that are keeping him out of the game. I think baseball would welcome a rehabilitated Pete Rose back to the game with open arms. But rehabilitating Pete Rose begins with Pete Rose, and he's refused so far.
Rose likes to invoke the late Steve Howe in his martyr complex, saying that Howe gets several chances and Rose gets none, that you can be busted for drugs N times and gambling zero times. The differences are twofold: (a) Howe's mistakes didn't undermine the integrity of the game on the field in terms of questions about trying to win and lose; (b) Howe didn't remain in harsh denial of a problem when faced with evidence to the contrary.
Yes, gambling is a "sin" against baseball. But most of the people who have commented on it and are in the game have said, very clearly, that all Rose needs to do is admit it, apologize for it *sincerely*, and agree to get help for his addiction. But he won't do it, since he's either too proud or too stupid. As long as that remains, his ban should remain intact. As for the Hall, that's the HOF's call, not baseball's. Baseball doesn't set the rules for eligibility to Cooperstown. But the HOF (not baseball) has decided not to allow "ineligible" players on the ballot. The HOF could allow Rose on the ballot without baseball reinstating him, but the HOF has chosen not to change their rules about getting on the ballot.
To get a second chance, you first need to admit you screwed up the first chance. >>
I agree with you that the spokesman thing wouldn't be "mandatory" but it would I believe result in expediting things quicker for Rose.
Rose had been to a few Gamblers Anonymous meetings and tried "recovery" but didn't think it fitted him. He doesn't see himself as a compulsive gambler even though he clearly fits every definition of one. Rose of course is in a "unique" sort of position whereby his name is just about a license to print money with autograph signings and appearances. So it's doubtful that Rose will ever be broke which isn't the case for 99.999% of compulsive gamblers out there.
Rose is very lucky that some bookie he stiffed didn't take a tire iron to his kneecaps. Years ago, I was involved in various gambling activities in the Philly area, and I'll never talk about any specifics of what I've seen and heard, but suffice to say that it's a very bad idea to stiff bookies, and especially "connected" bookies. I guess these bookies felt that "doing something" to Rose could result in bad publicity and probable arrests to them, so they left him alone.
Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible.
Steve
<< <i>Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible. >>
Sure. The bottom line is that Rose has never seemed *sincerely* sorry for his actions and has never really seemed to be doing anything more than going through the motions. His statements have made it sound like he thinks HE is the victim, as if there's some grand plot in baseball to discredit him. Why would baseball WANT to disenfranchise its all-time hit king? What motivation does MLB have to shut him out without legitimate reason? There are 4,256 reasons why MLB would WANT Rose to be a part of the game. But he has to do three things:
(1) Unequivocally admit that he has a gambling problem.
(2) SINCERELY appear contrite for what his actions did to the perception of the game.
(3) Get help -- serious help -- and follow through on it.
He sort of weaseled around (1), bristled at (2) and avoided (3).
I still believe MLB is, and will be continue to be, ready to welcome Rose back into the baseball family if all three of these conditions are clearly met. But MLB can't force Rose to do what he's unwilling and/or unable to do.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Rose is a compulsive gambler but has never felt the full sting of gambling addiction other than his crocodile tears of not being able to get back into baseball and enter the Hall of Fame. Which is one reason why I doubt very much that Rose will ever change. Part of his "warped thinking" which is usually a trait of compulsive gambling, was commiting income tax fraud and serving jail time for it. If going to prison didn't motivate him to seek recovery (in which recovery is more than just about stopping the gambling, it's also about changing behavior patterns as well), it's unlikely anything else will. But anything is possible. >>
Sure. The bottom line is that Rose has never seemed *sincerely* sorry for his actions and has never really seemed to be doing anything more than going through the motions. His statements have made it sound like he thinks HE is the victim, as if there's some grand plot in baseball to discredit him. Why would baseball WANT to disenfranchise its all-time hit king? What motivation does MLB have to shut him out without legitimate reason? There are 4,256 reasons why MLB would WANT Rose to be a part of the game. But he has to do three things:
(1) Unequivocally admit that he has a gambling problem.
(2) SINCERELY appear contrite for what his actions did to the perception of the game.
(3) Get help -- serious help -- and follow through on it.
He sort of weaseled around (1), bristled at (2) and avoided (3).
I still believe MLB is, and will be continue to be, ready to welcome Rose back into the baseball family if all three of these conditions are clearly met. But MLB can't force Rose to do what he's unwilling and/or unable to do. >>
VERY well stated!
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FACTS
Pete bet on baseball
Pete is an Ass
Pete cant open his mouth without making things worse
Pete cant stay out of a casino or track for more than a day
Pete is an ass(whoops did that
Pete lies and changes his story
Pete was a terrible husband
PETE IS THE GREATEST HITTER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME
"THE HIT KING"
1957 Topps 99% 7.40 GPA
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however, in my opinion, they should let him in the year after he dies,
and Joe Jackson should get in before him.
Here is my two cents on Pete Rose. No doubt, he gambled. Yes, it is against Baseball Rules. "THE GOLDEN RULE" if you will.
With that said, look at the some of the people in the hall-Guys who played dirty, boozed it up every night, got in all kinds of fights,
(would anyone doubt they had prostitutes), Beat their wives and girlfriends, committed all kinds of illegal acts
and (HERE COMES THE KICKER!) GAMBLED among hundreds of other shenanigans!
Now, I don't care what you want to say about "Oh, but Rose Gambled on Baseball, Though!". Please.....spare me! If you think that
none of the other players in the Hall of Fame never bet on Baseball even AFTER they were done playing, well......you are pretty
naive! There are many known "RECEIPTS" with several players in the Hall, that gambled and gambled on baseball as well.
I think it is time that the people that are in power, get a grip, get a life and forget about what they THINK they know or even if
they have the proof that Pete gambled-Do whatever you want to do with his, but for cryin' out loud, put him in the hall ! Ban him
from the hall, baseball, whatever, but, Pete belongs in the hall (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!)
Pete messed with The Integrity of The Game.....gambling for or against your team (when you bet for a win 5 days out of the week , the 2 days you dont bet for your team is essentially a bet against your team) hurts the Integrity of the game...
the Babe, Cobb, Mantle, and those other HArd party guys/ and other wife beating guys -Puckett-- DID NOT MESS WITH THE INTEGRITY of THE GAME...Mantle only hurt himself by being a drunk....it didnt hurt baseball.........
You see the difference....i get pretty tired of the PETE ROSE should be in the Hall speeches.. Mattingly, now that is a class act who should be in the Hall!
too bad his career stats won't allow it .... now THAT is an argument that everyone is tired of. Munson too
i figured he was a lock :0 )
However, his agreement with baseball was not done under coersion--
He agreed to the lifetime ban after turning himself in to the commissionars office
in order to save his life as he was unable to payoff his gambling debts.
Absolutely, Mr. Hustle brought it on all by himself.
The irony is he still rationalizes everything.
construct a very small room in Cooperstown HOF just for him
take a life-size Pete doll wearing a Reds uniform and put it in a chair
the chair would be in the corner
life-size Pete would be sitting in the chair with his back to the admiring throng
they could hang a teeny lil' gambling sheet on the wall where he is facing
just to taunt him
to think, i idolized the guy when i was a kid......he doesn't belong, he broke the rules, EOS
Even Donnie Baseball himself was quoted in the NY papers after last week's HOF vote that he did not think he played long enough to be worthy of the HOF.
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Rose had some great stats, but you do not need to induct players solely on their stats. You are allowed to look at character and contributions to the game. Many people have the perception that the HOF is for stats, but when I read the criteria, I thought oh well. It is not an injustice leaving Pete Rose out of the HOF.
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For all of you apologists of Rose all I can say is move on, it ain't gonna happen. Blame him not the voters.
Please guys save the loads of BS for those that love to hear BS. Thats all they want to hear anyway.
<< <i>If any of ya'll missed it, watch Rose's interview on Stephen A. Smiths show. Very upfront with everything. He deserves to go IN THE HOF AS A PLAYER! >>
Did he explain why he pissed all over Eckersly's HOF induction?
nah, he REALLY needs it, it will eat at him forever. He will never get in because he cant repent or take responsibility, he was and still is a pompous jerk, a liar, a cheat and an addict.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>He sure is high on himself isnt he! Put him up against todays pitching, he #'s wouldnt be so fancy. >>
Yeah, he probably would have only had 3,800 hits or so... STILL good enough for 3rd all-time, and STILL should be in the Hall of Fame.
<< <i>He sure is high on himself isnt he! Put him up against todays pitching, he #'s wouldnt be so fancy. >>
Of course not. He's 65 years old against today's pitching.
<< <i>He sure is high on himself isnt he! Put him up against todays pitching, he #'s wouldnt be so fancy. >>
Is this a serious statement?
Yeah, those 5.60 ERA's, watered down staffs, and record setting offensive performance in this era have made it really tough on hitters...
An argument that today's pitching is not as strong as the 60's (best pitching era ever) thru the 80's would hold water.
Pete had a HOF career, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Make that a stooge.
<< <i>
<< <i>He sure is high on himself isnt he! Put him up against todays pitching, he #'s wouldnt be so fancy. >>
Is this a serious statement?
Yeah, those 5.60 ERA's, watered down staffs, and record setting offensive performance in this era have made it really tough on hitters... >>
Absolutely right. Baseball was the #1 game back then which virtually every top athlete aspired to. The ones who couldn't play baseball had to "settle" for football or some other sport. Not today - those strong arm kids wanna be quarterbacks just as well as pitchers, and participating in other sports as well. Those 60's pitchers were brutally tough - and remember guys like Seaver, Ryan and others began in the 60's.
Many athletes have improved from the 60's to this millenium, but it hasn't been pitchers. I'm not sure but it's possible that weight training regimens, which most high school and college kids do today, could possibly affect those throwing tendons in the arm ever so slightly to make them not as good as pitchers in the 60's who probably never lifted a weight in their life.
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On Baseball
Truth Is Revealed in Bets Rose Didn’t Make
'When Pete Rose said he always bet on the Reds, he forgot about the games he didn't bet on those with Bill Gullickson pitching.'
By MURRAY CHASS
Published: March 16, 2007
Pete Rose still can’t get it right. He said in a radio interview Wednesday that when he managed the Cincinnati Reds in the 1980’s, “I bet on my team every night.”
Pete Rose said Wednesday that he “bet on my team to win every night.” But betting slips showed that he didn’t risk his money when a certain pitcher started.
“I didn’t bet on my team four nights a week,” he added in an interview on Dan Patrick’s show on ESPN radio. “I bet on my team to win every night because I love my team, I believe in my team. I did everything in my power every night to win that game.”
But the 65-year-old Rose, either from selective memory or from advancing age, forgot one player he didn’t believe in — Reds starting pitcher Bill Gullickson, the player whose games Rose basically stopped betting.
Rose’s chronology of his own betting habits has a long history. For 15 years, he denied that he had bet on baseball games when he managed the Reds. To some people, he was very convincing.
Indeed, critics of Rose’s lifetime ban disparaged A. Bartlett Giamatti, the commissioner who banned him; Fay Vincent, Giamatti’s deputy and successor; and John Dowd, the Washington lawyer whose voluminous report nailed Rose. Some of the critics wrote entire books about the Rose scandal, finding fault with the evidence against him.
When Rose, the career leader in major league hits, finally admitted in his 2004 book that he had bet on baseball and established that he had lied for 15 years, few of those critics acknowledged their gullibility. But this isn’t about Rose’s naïve defenders. It’s about Rose getting it wrong — again.
Contrary to what he said in the Wednesday radio interview, Rose did not bet on Reds games nightly. The record Dowd created demonstrated that there were games on which Rose did not bet. It was those games that represented the response to his supporters who said it was no big deal if Rose bet on games as long as he didn’t bet on the Reds to lose.
According to the Dowd report, which included a diary of bets that Rose made on Reds games and many others — it listed bets on 390 games over all, 52 of them involving the Reds, in a three-month period in 1987 — Rose developed a consistency of not betting on certain contests.
In particular, Rose stopped betting on Reds games that Gullickson started. If Rose bet on his team to win other games but didn’t bet on Gullickson’s games, he was sending a signal to the bookies he was betting with that he, as manager of the team, didn’t think much of his team’s chances in those games.
As far as his betting pattern was concerned, Rose might as well have bet against the Reds in those games. Such wagers would have sent the same message to the bookies: “I don’t expect us to win these games.”
In that 1987 period for which Dowd found betting slips, from April 7 to July 4, Rose didn’t withhold his wagering money on all of Gullickson’s games. Initially, Rose fared well in Gullickson’s games. The same couldn’t be said for at least some of the other games Rose bet on.
For example, the records showed that in 69 instances, Rose bet $2,500 or more on a game. Astoundingly, he lost 64 of those 69, which computes to a .072 success rate. Had Rose had that kind of average at the plate, he wouldn’t have lasted long enough to get 200 hits, let alone 200 hits in 10 separate seasons.
As for Gullickson, Rose won the first four times he bet on games the pitcher started. But then he lost two of the next three. The report listed no Rose baseball bets for the ensuing two weeks, a stretch in which Gullickson, a right-hander, started three games.
When the records resumed, they showed that Rose had, for the most part, lost confidence in Gullickson. The manager placed no bets on Gullickson’s next four starts, five of his next six and six of his next eight.
In that span, from May 30 through July 4, the Reds played 25 other games and Rose failed to place a bet on only 3 of those games. Ted Power, Ron Robinson and Guy Hoffman started those games.
The absence of Reds bets in those instances did not mean that Rose had simply taken the day off from wagering. On one occasion, he bet on 10 other games not involving the Reds; in another instance, he bet on 5.
Gullickson, meanwhile, was not completely useless to the Reds, contrary to his manager’s betting strategy. In that period from May 30 to July 4, Gullickson started six games for which there were no betting slips. The Reds won three of the six. In the two games in that period in which Rose did bet with Gullickson on the mound, the Reds split.
But clearly, Rose didn’t have much confidence in Gullickson. And the Reds ended their manager’s quandary by trading Gullickson to the Yankees for Dennis Rasmussen on Aug. 26.
Maybe justice for Pete will be done when Hillary moves into the Oval Office
in fact what he has done since then shows he deserves the ban more than ever.
<< <i>Somehow I have to think he's about the stupidest person alive, everything he's done to get himself in the HOF has made things worse. He's done so many things over the years to shoot himself in the foot. >>
Ironic thing is that by not being in the hall of fame has made himself more well know to a new generation of baseball fans than if
he had gone into the hall.