Large cent question

eyoung429

What is the difference between the Mature and petite attributes for the 1843 Cent? I have looked around and on CC's site, the links for the large cent are not functional and on CoinFacts.com doesn't list the descriptions of the 2 types.

Thanks!

Julian

The petite head is the head of 1842 and earlier. The mature head is the head of 1844-57. As you probably guessed, the petite head is smaller.

LanLord

Doesn't that have to do with the head style?

The mature is the one that reminds you of aunt agnes that you don't want to even hug at Christmas (you know, the one with a mole with a black hair growing out of it).

The petite is the sort of small youngish looking head style!

eyoung429

So the one that they show on CoinFacts for the 1843 is in fact the petite head? If the hairband is below the points at K10:30 and K11 then it's petite and if it is above the points, it's a mature head?

Hoot

<< <i>So the one that they show on CoinFacts for the 1843 is in fact the petite head? If the hairband is below the points at K10:30 and K11 then it's petite and if it is above the points, it's a mature head?

>>



The photo you show is of a petite head. The point of the bust of the petite head nearly always points sharply at the 8 in the date, while that of the mature head is much more paralell to the date and stretches out over the 1. The Red Book has some easily followed illustrations.

Hoot

Conder101

The petite and mature heads are actually from the same punch. The difference is that on the petite head the bust is roated counterclockwise so that the point of the bust is over the 8. Actually I guess since the petite head came first you could say that the mature head is rotated clockwise with the point of the Bust over the 1 and the date roughly paralleling the truncation of the bust.

Longacre

<< <i>The petite and mature heads are actually from the same punch. >>




Conder-- are you using "punch" in the technical sense? Exactly what punch are you speaking of (or more correctly, what design element resulted from the punch)? I assume you mean the date. If the petite head and the matron head are from different dies, is the base assumption that the dates were put in each die in exactly the same spot? Hopefully my question made some sense.

MikeInFL

Petite Head / Mature Head:



The easiest way for me to tell the difference the position of the point of the bust versus the date, however the length of the neck and the curls of hair under the bust are also different, and I am unsure how the same punch could have been used....Mike

p.s. if the same punch was used, why the differences of neck length and hair curls???

SDCollector

Mike,

Nice pics and I really like the pics of your collection on PBase. I'm going to do the same.

MikeInFL

Thank you, sir....Mike

Conder101

You're right they are different. I always thought they were the same. Guess I never paid enough attention to them.

As for what I meant by punch:

Although the working dies are created by hubbing, the initial master dies were created at that time though the use of punches. A punch of the bust and a star punch for the obverse, and a wreath punch, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA punch and a ONE CENT punch for the reverse. These large punches would be sunk into the master die blank via a screwpress of possibly the steam press. One the Master die was created it would then be used to make working hubs and working dies. The date would be punched into each working die with a four digit logotype punch. Some time in I believe the 1850's a reducing lathe was acquired and they began to create the hub from a reduction of the original model. For awhile they used it to create the working hub, and then later when the mint began to need a tremendous number of dies because of the short life of the three cent nickel and shield nickel dies, they started using it to create master hubs.

Longacre

<< <i>You're right they are different. I always thought they were the same. Guess I never paid enough attention to them.

As for what I meant by punch:

Although the working dies are created by hubbing, the initial master dies were created at that time though the use of punches. A punch of the bust and a star punch for the obverse, and a wreath punch, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA punch and a ONE CENT punch for the reverse. These large punches would be sunk into the master die blank via a screwpress of possibly the steam press. One the Master die was created it would then be used to make working hubs and working dies. The date would be punched into each working die with a four digit logotype punch. Some time in I believe the 1850's a reducing lathe was acquired and they began to create the hub from a reduction of the original model. For awhile they used it to create the working hub, and then later when the mint began to need a tremendous number of dies because of the short life of the three cent nickel and shield nickel dies, they started using it to create master hubs. >>



You and Pistareen should get the award for post quality.