This is a hell of a disclaimer.

Russ

<< <i>The Auctioneer shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defect in any lot and makes no warranty in connection therewith. No allowance, refund or set aside will be made on account of any incorrectness, error in description, imperfection, defect or damage. Any descriptions or representations are for identification purposes only and are not to be construed as a warranty of any type. By bidding on any item, the Buyer waives all rights to any recourse based on quality, quantity, character, description or condition or other aspect of the item. >>



If the auctioneer isn't responsible, who is?

Russ, NCNE

Coindexter

Good question.

stiffy

If the auctioneer isn't responsible, who is?

The buyer.

As is, where (it) is.

You bid, you win, you pay, you own, you move it outta here.



Local auctions frequently have such disclaimers.

DHeath

Clinton.

Longacre

That one seems pretty harsh.

Russ

<< <i>If the auctioneer isn't responsible, who is?

The buyer.

As is, where (it) is.

You bid, you win, you pay, you own, you move it outta here. >>



I'm familiar with the concept, but it seems that perhaps you missed my point. While the buyer is certainly responsible for their purchase in an auction format, they certainly are not responsible for providing accurate information about the item being sold. This seller has disclaimed any responsibility for the accuracy of their description. In other words, if that disclaimer is to be believed they could lie through their teeth without consequence.

Russ, NCNE

stiffy

<< If the auctioneer isn't responsible, who is?

The buyer.

As is, where (it) is.

You bid, you win, you pay, you own, you move it outta here. >>



I'm familiar with the concept, but it seems that perhaps you missed my point. While the buyer is certainly responsible for their purchase in an auction format, they certainly are not responsible for providing accurate information about the item being sold. This seller has disclaimed any responsibility for the accuracy of their description. In other words, if that disclaimer is to be believed they could lie through their teeth without consequence.

It isn't an isolated instance. This guy just got verbose. The same effect could be accomplished by stating that the seller "is not responsible for erors in the listing" or the like. For instance:


This


or this


All they have to do is say: "There was an error in the listing, and we are not responsible"

I don't think "responsible" sellers use such tricks.

How far can they push the envelope? I don't bid in such auctions unless I can see and inspect before I bid. If you but a storage locker that is in default, well, they can't know what's in there. But they don't make any representations that anything specific is there.

The problems come for such sellers when they make a statement that amounts to a warranty.
They can't take back by a general disclaimer that which is a specific warranty. Send me a PCI when you advertise a PCGS, and you just can't say: There was a listing error, and you get PCI. Not liable for errors. Sorry.

Thing is, that type of wording will often quell all but the most vociferious complainer when the seller says to read the TOS.

The really angry ones they can just placate by saying: "We don't have to help you at all, but out of the goodness of or hearts, we will refund your money."

Seems to work...

knightem

I believe the reason for the disclaimer is this: auctioneers can be hired to call auctions for any auction company. It is probably true that auction companies have auctioneers on staff, but it is may be the case that this protects the auction company if they hire an auctioneer but has no affiliation with the company they are calling for.

lloydmincy

Auction house is responsible, not the auctionEER - I.E. the one on the podium of the auction.

JustaRookie

Caveat Emptor-definition-buyer get screwed-got some ocean front property in Arizona but will not guarantee when it will be a reality....

Bochiman

Nobody is responsible.
Just like real life with the lefties....

dizzyfoxx

gyocomgd

So I guess returns are out of the question.

rb345

Auctioneers disclaim liability because they are not experts in everything they sell, and because they lack the resources to determine the
authenticity and legirimacy of everything they sell. That much said:


1. because an auctioneer is the legal agent of the seller, the seller can be held liable for any material misrepresentations
made by an auctioneer, or any material failures to disclose, unless the auctions terms of sale specifically disclaim such
liability and make clear that the seller is selling without any warranties, express or implied.


2. even express language of disclaimer will not insulate a seller, or auctioneer from liability, e.g., this item is being sold
without recourse and without any warranties, express or implied, if the sale is tainted by the misrepresentation of a
fact which is peculiarly within the seller's knowledge, e.g., that the seller possesses good and marketable title to the
item, at least in New York State, where I reside.

BlindedByEgo

Blame it on Bin Laden.

my3cents

the way auctions should be run is the way I run mine...click on my ebay auctions below. Seller takes full responsibility and guarantees results.

lava

It is sloppy, and probably was not written by an attorney. Usually a lay person that borrows legal boilerplate from another document used in another context results in this type of language. It is ridiculously over-reaching.

Michigan

<< <i>Nobody is responsible.
Just like real life with the lefties.... >>




Hey, it is nobodys fault if they were born left handed.

Russ

The thing is that this is not some high falutin' big time auction. It's an eBay listing for 1964 proof sets.

Russ, NCNE

beartracks42

<< The Auctioneer shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defect in any lot and makes no warranty in connection therewith. No allowance, refund or set aside will be made on account of any incorrectness, error in description, imperfection, defect or damage. Any descriptions or representations are for identification purposes only and are not to be construed as a warranty of any type. By bidding on any item, the Buyer waives all rights to any recourse based on quality, quantity, character, description or condition or other aspect of the item. >>


The auctioneer may be able to get away with parts of the above statement, but under the UCC(Uniform Commercial Code) as it was explained in two parts in CW a few weeks ago, he can not deny responsibility for selling an item that is not genuine or authentic(read counterfiet). Also, there is as much as a 4 year statute of limitation on such transactions.

JadeRareCoin

<< <i>The thing is that this is not some high falutin' big time auction. It's an eBay listing for 1964 proof sets.

Russ, NCNE >>



You answered the question that I was just going to ask. Now it makes sense; just some yahoo that went to law school for a year or two before dropping out, now listing coins on eBay and trying to flex his/her legal muscle. In reality, terms like that mean very little. If someone commits fraud, they cannot relinquish responsibility by way of some fancy/schmancy legalese.

If I won that I auction, I would post this in my PayPal payment:

By acceptance of this payment, the seller's prior terms and conditions as outlined in his auction shall be deemed null and void, being replaced henceforth by the buyer's terms and conditions.

lkenefic

<< <i>Clinton. >>



...Rumsfeld...

TwoSides2aCoin

I was thinkin of this disclaimer :


I have no problem, if I do... I'll fix it.
If you have a problem, it's yours..... fix it. If you want me to fix it, pay me and quit bit..in, remember
You paid me, now it's my problem. You have no right to bit..
Once I fix the problem, there is no problem.

If another problem arises, remember



I have no problem and if you pay me , I am the only one with a right to bit..

It's my problem. So quit your bit..in' and PAY ME
edit to add:
and there'll be no problems


In actuality, it is sad how some are so afraid to take responsibility for their actions and to be forthright and upstanding.

Russ

<< <i>Now it makes sense; just some yahoo that went to law school for a year or two before dropping out, now listing coins on eBay and trying to flex his/her legal muscle. >>



It's Superior.

Russ, NCNE

secondrepublic

This seller has disclaimed any responsibility for the accuracy of their description. In other words, if that disclaimer is to be believed they could lie through their teeth without consequence.

I don't believe that people can just disclaim away their legal obligations. It's like when you park your car in a garage and they have signs disclaiming liability for everything -- they can say whatever they want, but as a matter of law it's unlikely that such terms would be enforced by a judge. Contract terms are not self-enforcing, and a court is not bound to enforce them if they are inconsistent with the parties' legal obligations.

I one time had an argument with the phone company about some item on the bill, and the customer service person on the other end said "if it's written on the bill, that means you have to pay it." My response was "oh, really? In that case, I'll write you a letter saying you owe me $100, you'll have to pay me that money."

The point is that the law exists independently of what people may claim or disclaim.

lkenefic

Perhaps secondrepublic has it right...doesn't eBays' terms supercede any disclaimer that I might want to put into place?

L