Response from Ebay
Frankcoins
Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭
Thought I had made some headway on the phone and emails with the Powerseller help line.
Then I got this....
Why would I want my business associated with such a sleazy operation.....
Hello,
I appreciate you notifying SafeHarbor with your concern.
Based on the information you have provided, I have reviewed your
situation. Due to your failure to supply requested information, it
it has been determined that your suspension will remain in effect
until we receive the requested information.
eBay may limit your activity, immediately remove your bids, or end
your listing, warn other Users of your actions, immediately
suspend or terminate your membership, and/or refuse to provide you
with access to the Site:
If you breach the User Agreement or the documents it incorporates by reference;
If eBay is unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide; or
If it is believed that your actions may cause legal liability for you, other
Users or eBay.
eBay may at any time at its sole discretion reinstate suspended Users. A
User that has been indefinitely suspended may not register or attempt to
register with eBay or use the Site in any manner whatsoever until such
time that such User is reinstated by eBay. Notwithstanding the foregoing,
if you breach the User Agreement or the documents it incorporates by reference,
eBay reserves the right to recover any amounts due and owing by you to eBay
and to take strict legal action including but not limited to a referral to
Operation CyberSweep, initiating criminal proceedings against you.
Although the account will remain temporarily suspended until you supply
the requested information, I look forward to your reinstatement and hope that
your future experiences on eBay are pleasant and successful.
Thank you for being an asset to the eBay trading community. We wish you
continued success with your transactions on eBay.
Regards,
Arved
PowerSeller Team
eBay Trust & Safety
Then I got this....
Why would I want my business associated with such a sleazy operation.....
Hello,
I appreciate you notifying SafeHarbor with your concern.
Based on the information you have provided, I have reviewed your
situation. Due to your failure to supply requested information, it
it has been determined that your suspension will remain in effect
until we receive the requested information.
eBay may limit your activity, immediately remove your bids, or end
your listing, warn other Users of your actions, immediately
suspend or terminate your membership, and/or refuse to provide you
with access to the Site:
If you breach the User Agreement or the documents it incorporates by reference;
If eBay is unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide; or
If it is believed that your actions may cause legal liability for you, other
Users or eBay.
eBay may at any time at its sole discretion reinstate suspended Users. A
User that has been indefinitely suspended may not register or attempt to
register with eBay or use the Site in any manner whatsoever until such
time that such User is reinstated by eBay. Notwithstanding the foregoing,
if you breach the User Agreement or the documents it incorporates by reference,
eBay reserves the right to recover any amounts due and owing by you to eBay
and to take strict legal action including but not limited to a referral to
Operation CyberSweep, initiating criminal proceedings against you.
Although the account will remain temporarily suspended until you supply
the requested information, I look forward to your reinstatement and hope that
your future experiences on eBay are pleasant and successful.
Thank you for being an asset to the eBay trading community. We wish you
continued success with your transactions on eBay.
Regards,
Arved
PowerSeller Team
eBay Trust & Safety
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
0
Comments
<< <i>So, since you know you are dealing directly with Ebay (and not someone who has hacked into your account), why not securely provide them wth the information they are requesting? >>
Because THEY CAN GO TO HELL!!!!!!
Short term, probably not.
Long term? Possibly, don't you think?
sellers should work with ebay to prove who they are, when ebay asks, in a secure
fashion.
long term, the coin section may just get cleaned up.
now if newbies could avoid folks like ernie, life would be good.
Second other than privacy and not wanting to give away personal info is Ebay seeking to gather info on you to sell it or are they asking for something that people simply will not give?
Can someone elobrate on what exactly the issue is, I understand that folks would fear giving personal info to someone who is possibly a scamer but once we know its Ebay why are people not giving this info? Are they asking for something that incriminates folks or is it something too personal that people dont want to give out???
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>This will pass. Create a new name and get a new bank account and ebay account. Build slow. I would also keep pounding these guys at the same time, make then respond to you emails and letters, this cost them money and time. Ask them to be specific. Call the Attorny General and BBB in your State, file complaints. You are innocent until proven guilty in this country, at least we used to be, right >>
1) That would take considerably more time and effort than simply providing the requested information;
2) You can't "make then respond to you emails and letters";
3) If it can even be done, "costing them money and time" potentially makes things more difficult and costly for the good guys;
4)" You are innocent until proven guilty in this country" applies (in theory) to our legal system - like it or not, that has nothing to do with Ebay and dealing with them.
<< <i>Ok perhaps I missed something in the other threads but I am confused as to what exactly Ebay is looking for when they ask for peoples personal info. Are the just randomaly choosing folks to get the questions or is there some sort of action that sellers are taking causing these questions.
Second other than privacy and not wanting to give away personal info is Ebay seeking to gather info on you to sell it or are they asking for something that people simply will not give?
Can someone elobrate on what exactly the issue is, I understand that folks would fear giving personal info to someone who is possibly a scamer but once we know its Ebay why are people not giving this info? Are they asking for something that incriminates folks or is it something too personal that people dont want to give out??? >>
Here is the deal...I am not liked by certain people, who have tried for 6 or 7 years to have my business shut down..see the
tone of the posts by "stiffie" toward me. If ebay gets enough complaints, they shut you down, justified or not. Lots of dirty
tricks available....send yourself spam with my name forged into the header. Then send it to ebay claiming I am sending
spam. Post something in the newsgroups, forge their headers, post it to a group of retired veterans..."I HOPE ALL 150,000 SOLDIERS IN IRAQ DIE BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS A WAR CRIMINAL....Bid on my ebay auctions...." (That was done to another Texas
coin dealer named Gary Dorman) Search feedback for multiple wins from the same buyer, then report to ebay as a shill bidder.
The newest tactic...ebay added a "report this auction" link to each item page. Now all your enemies have to do is
select "I THINK THIS ITEM MIGHT BE STOLEN." A few of those and ebay will shut you down and want proof that you
purchased the item offered.
Then put the decision making whether to DESTROY YOUR BUSINESS in the hands of some 22 year old hired hand in India...
<< <i>there has to be a reason for requesting the info in the first place.... >>
At first, that was also my thought. Now, I'm not so sure. Like the IRS they may have, in addition to looking for red flags, adopted a random audit system that selects a small percentage of sellers for no reason at all.
Russ, NCNE
I am in agreement with Mark in that once it has been determined that this is in fact Ebay making the request (not some hack) that the information should be given. It is no different than showing your driver license and a valid credit card of some type when cashing a check or any of the other means of identification that can be requested to complete a financial transaction.
The big one here is that this board has created a very large awareness of the fraud that exists in the Ebay community, whether it is spoof email, spoof phone calls or what ever and all of us have some type of paranoia regarding these issues but once it is determined that the request is valid, then I think the request should be respected. They do, after all, own Ebay and are responsible for policing the activities that occur there.
OK, hit me!
The name is LEE!
If the OP is running his auctions according to eBays TOS, and not violating any rules or regs, then answering questions and providing credible info should not be a concern.
I get the distinct impression there's more to this story than is being told here. eBay has detected something unusual, and is Policing their site (as any reasonable person would expect and appreciate) according to proper and common sense procedures.
You want to play on eBays playground, then comply with their playground rules.
Simple
<< <i>The OP seems to be overly angry (IMHO) and defiant over this easily correctable problem. If the OP is running his auctions according to eBays TOS, and not violating any rules or regs, then answering questions and providing credible info should not be a concern. >>
To some extent, he is rightly so upset. He got a phonecall from someone claiming to be eBay. When he asked that they verify it was them (registered mail), they just shut all of his listings and NARU'd him. My personal opinion of registered mail to prove legitimacy is a bit much, however I do understand the reasoning behind it.
<< <i>I get the distinct impression there's more to this story than is being told here. >>
Yup, another entire thread on the subject.
<< <i>You want to play on eBays playground, then comply with their playground rules. >>
Sadly, this is true.
I think had eBay not been defiant in proving it was a legitimate request we might be seeing a different response from Frank, but I dont know him well enough to say with any kind of certainty. If it were me, I would probably be a bit peeved and defiant myself with the actions they had taken, and would vent as well.
We have heard why he says he was shutdown. He says he supplied info.
The posted email from ebay says not all info was given.
Telling the person to just create another account and keep selling is generally what the slimebag sellers do and people here out them all the time.
Does one really want to be in the same grouping as them?
If you are on the up and up, supply the info in a secured way. If there is more to the story, then tell everyone what it is. For me, I don't think we have the full story (unlike with Laura's because hers was pretty cut and dried)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Operation Cyber Sweep represents a coordinated initiative targeting an expansive array of Cyber Crime schemes victimizing individuals and industry worldwide. This initiative highlights numerous investigations that have been successfully advanced through cooperation and coordination of law enforcement, and a growing list of industry partners.
Cases included in Operation Cyber Sweep exemplify the growing volume and character of Internet facilitated crimes confronting law enforcement, and also underscores the continuing commitment of law enforcement to aggressively pursue cyber criminals, both domestically and abroad. Historically, Cyber criminals abroad have perceived themselves as beyond the reach of U.S. authorities, and in some instances, untouchable by their own country’s law enforcement. Until recently, law enforcement and industry were consistently frustrated with the inability to effectively pursue matters in certain countries. That situation is rapidly changing, due to a concerted emphasis within DOJ to train and equip law enforcement in many of these countries, including Ghana, Nigeria and Romania. Due in large part to these efforts, certain noteworthy international successes included in Operation Cyber Sweep became possible.
Criminal schemes included in this initiative include: International re-shipping schemes, auction fraud, spoofing/phishing, credit card fraud, work at home schemes, cyber-extortion, Intellectual Property Rights (IPR), Computer Intrusions (hacking), economic espionage (Theft of Trade Secrets), International Money Laundering, Identity Theft, and a growing list of “traditional crimes” that have migrated on-line.
Maybe this IS government induced...... LINK
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Much later dudes!
As far as what someone should do with their personal information, I cannot say. With so many scam artists out there, it's hard to judge anymore.
Roger
My Indian Name is: Runs With Beer
<<1) That would take considerably more time and effort than simply providing the requested information;> >
Disagree, it could be done online in the time it took you to think about and write this email
Thebigeng, you might be right about that. But, we don't know for certain how long it would have taken Frank to comply. And, if you are speaking from personal experience, it sounds as if you had better luck coming up with a new Ebay username (which you liked and which was not already taken) than I did. : )
<<2) You can't "make then respond to you emails and letters";>>
They aleady have??
Ebay CHOSE to respond - they were not "MADE" to respond.
I would also keep pounding these guys at the same time, make then respond to you emails and letters, this cost them money and time
<<3) If it can even be done, "costing them money and time" potentially makes things more difficult and costly for the good guys;>>
Watch out you could be next, are you sure they are targeting the right folks, is Legend one of the "Good Guys"??
"Costing them money and time" doesn't have anything to do with whether "they are targeting the right folks". But it will probably eventually penalize the "good guys" too.
<<4)" You are innocent until proven guilty in this country" applies (in theory) to our legal system - like it or not, that has nothing to do with Ebay and dealing with them.>>
Mark, you have certainily become jaded
The notion that the concept of "you are innocent until proven guilty in this country" applies outside of the legal system has been and is widely misunderstood for many years. If I am indeed "jaded", the thoughts I just expressed in my previous sentence do not constitute "proof" (either beyond a reasonable doubt or by a preponderance of the evidence) of such.
The IRS may be putting pressure on Ebay for the info...I do hope those of you that have been asked for the info have been keeping uncle sam happy.
With your approval, that is! Of course, I don't know how that gets accomplished. I would definitely have them prove what security they're providing for the sending of such sensitive personal information. They would really need to convince me and provide some guarantee before the transfer of such info.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
When eBay comes calling one day to ask for your genetic code and what medications you're taking (on the grounds that those on psychotropic drugs or flirting with Alzheimer's might not be reliable merchants, or just because they feel like it), is this still just one more cost of doing business?
Does eBay guarantee they're unhackable?
The requested info has nothing to do with the above. It has to do with ebay and most likely complaints they received.
The IRS hardly needs eBay to ASK you for your ID?
<< <i>So, since you know you are dealing directly with Ebay (and not someone who has hacked into your account), why not securely provide them wth the information they are requesting? >>
<< <i>
Here is the deal...I am not liked by certain people, who have tried for 6 or 7 years to have my business shut down..see the
tone of the posts by "stiffie" toward me. If ebay gets enough complaints, they shut you down, justified or not. Lots of dirty
tricks available....send yourself spam with my name forged into the header. Then send it to ebay claiming I am sending
spam. Post something in the newsgroups, forge their headers, post it to a group of retired veterans..."I HOPE ALL 150,000 SOLDIERS IN IRAQ DIE BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS A WAR CRIMINAL....Bid on my ebay auctions...." (That was done to another Texas
coin dealer named Gary Dorman) Search feedback for multiple wins from the same buyer, then report to ebay as a shill bidder.
snip >>
No offense, but you DID send me some political spam after I bought from you on eBay. However, I would never report you to anyone for doing it. You sent it, I replied that I didn't appreciate it and you stopped. But you DO/DID send out spam after sales on eBay.
That said, I still don't think that is why they suspended your eBay account. I am well aware that certain people don't like you much. I have seen the posts in RCC and the eBay Marketing USENET group and I don't think you deserve the treatment you have received in there.
I hope you get your account reinstated, if that is what you want. If you want them to "go to hell" well, I can agree with that too.
Jonathan
Ebay is so large that you are not even a drop in the bucket. Forum members who think they might have some influence would be mistaken. This is all about Ebay process and not about you. They clearly are not going to change.
You are right to be irritated, angry and disillusioned with the process. However, if you want to do business on Ebay, it is comply or shoot yourself in the foot by taking away a marketing channel from yourself. Given that they also own PayPal, the influence is more than just sales.
For what it's worth, I would just give in and go back to business. This is a free country, so you are free to flail against Ebay, but it will not change the result. It's either put up and sell or fight and be on the sidelines.
Being right is often a losing position in the long run.
Requested info was overnighted to Ebay on May 16, plus a request that all records they have regarding actions taken
against my account be forwarded to my attorney. This is my second weekend with zero sales. Advertising at the
TNA show wasted. Ad in Coin World about my ebay sales wasted.
<< <i>This is my second weekend with zero sales. Advertising at the
TNA show wasted. Ad in Coin World about my ebay sales wasted.
>>
I think it is unfair for you to blame E-Bay that you have no sales and your advertising is wasted. If you would have provided them the info when they requested it you would have been selling on E-Bay 2 weeks ago.
I find I don't really miss it all that much. I might go back to it eventually but right now I'm just taking a break.
<< <i>Update:
Requested info was overnighted to Ebay on May 16, plus a request that all records they have regarding actions taken
against my account be forwarded to my attorney. This is my second weekend with zero sales. Advertising at the
TNA show wasted. Ad in Coin World about my ebay sales wasted. >>
So, give them what they want. Shoot yourself in the foot for all I care. Do what they ask and sell, sell, sell!
Jonathan
<< <i>I think it is unfair for you to blame E-Bay that you have no sales and your advertising is wasted. If you would have provided them the info when they requested it you would have been selling on E-Bay 2 weeks ago. >>
No prudent businessperson would have provided them this information over the phone.
<<No prudent businessperson would have provided them this information over the phone.>>
Frank, Marty didn't say that it necessarily should have been done over the phone. Additionally, I believe you verified later that it was indeed Ebay you were dealing with, so you had the opportunity to provide the information at that point. I can understand why you chose not to, but that decision/choice of yours led to your continued suspension.
<< <i>
Frank, Marty didn't say that it necessarily should have been done over the phone. Additionally, I believe you verified later that it was indeed Ebay you were dealing with, so you had the opportunity to provide the information at that point. I can understand why you chose not to, but that decision/choice of yours led to your continued suspension. >>
The only option they gave me was
1. Give them my credit card and checking account number NOW over the phone
2. Your account will be suspended
<< <i>
The only option they gave me was
1. Give them my credit card and checking account number NOW over the phone
2. Your account will be suspended >>
Oh, give me a break. You are either the unluckiest person in the entire world or there's an aspect to this story that you are not telling us. Things never seem to go your way, and it's always everyone's fault but yours. For years I've been reading this stuff. I can't imagine that you really enjoy being a coin dealer, what with all of the misfortune that constantly dogs your business.
It's like you're some kind of numismatic Woody Allen or George Constanza.
1. Ebay guy in India calls on a weekend and asks for credit card number, bank acct. number, and drivers license number on the phone, now or Frank will be NARUed.
2. Frank refuses.
3. Frank is NARUed.
4. Frank complains to safe harbor.
5. Safe harbor refuses to reinstate.
6. Frank talks it over with his lawyer.
7. Frank talks to eBay rep.
8. Frank overnights everything they want.
9. Frank awaits unltimate reinstatement.
I'm sure it's an annoyance, an incovenience, a disappointment, and a money-loser. I'm just waiting for it all to play itself out, as it undoubtedly will. Then Frank can get back to work, and we can all wait for the next poor schlimazel to yowl about some eBay guy calling from India and wanting his bank acct. number, etc., etc.
--Edited because I confused a schlemiel with a schlimazel.
Now THERE'S a post of the day award. lol
1. Give them my credit card and checking account number NOW over the phone
2. Your account will be suspended>>
No problem. After you get suspended, you appeal the suspension, by letting them know your (valid) reasons for not having provided the information over the phone and make arrangements to do so in a secure manner. If there is not more to the story, they then reinstate you and everyone lives happily ever after.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Frank, Marty didn't say that it necessarily should have been done over the phone. Additionally, I believe you verified later that it was indeed Ebay you were dealing with, so you had the opportunity to provide the information at that point. I can understand why you chose not to, but that decision/choice of yours led to your continued suspension. >>
The only option they gave me was
1. Give them my credit card and checking account number NOW over the phone
2. Your account will be suspended >>
Was this supposed to be for verification? They SHOULD HAVE your credit card number and bank account number. Well, PayPal does anyway. Just offer them the last four digits. They can verify like that. I don't blame you for not giving this information over the phone. I would not do it either. I just hope they don't do this to me. What set them off to pick on you? I don't want to do the same thing.
Jonathan
<< <i>
<< <i>This is my second weekend with zero sales. Advertising at the
TNA show wasted. Ad in Coin World about my ebay sales wasted.
>>
I think it is unfair for you to blame E-Bay that you have no sales and your advertising is wasted. If you would have provided them the info when they requested it you would have been selling on E-Bay 2 weeks ago. >>
They are asking for information:
1. That they said they would never ask for.
2. That could compromise your financial situation SEVERELY if misused.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This is my second weekend with zero sales. Advertising at the
TNA show wasted. Ad in Coin World about my ebay sales wasted.
>>
I think it is unfair for you to blame E-Bay that you have no sales and your advertising is wasted. If you would have provided them the info when they requested it you would have been selling on E-Bay 2 weeks ago. >>
They are asking for information:
1. That they said they would never ask for.
2. That could compromise your financial situation SEVERELY if misused. >>
When that happened to me, I asked them to send an E-Mail to My Messages with a number to call them back on. I had one there in 5 minutes. Frank, did you argue with them? Did you tell them that there was no way you were going to give them the info? Did you ask them to send the request to MY MESSAGES so the caller could be IDed?
<< <i>
When that happened to me, I asked them to send an E-Mail to My Messages with a number to call them back on. I had one there in 5 minutes. Frank, did you argue with them? Did you tell them that there was no way you were going to give them the info? Did you ask them to send the request to MY MESSAGES so the caller could be IDed? >>
I'd ask for just a name and call them back only on numbers listed on the website. The problem still is whats to stop REAL ebay employees from doing this on their own in order to get your CC number?