Does your dealer's personality change when he is buying?

291fifth

This is something I've noticed many times over the years. Certain dealers have two personalities. One is seen when you are buying from them or just talking coins. The other, very different and usually much colder, personality is seen when it is time for him to buy from you or another customer.

Anyone else notice this?

MrEureka

Most dealers are lucky to have even one personality. Two seems highly unlikely.

Coindexter

<< <i>Most dealers are lucky to have even one personality. Two seems highly unlikely. >>



HA! Score one for Mr. Lustig!

cape

very good andy!

ER

Sure, when selling to you, "This coin is undergraded / PQ for the grade".
When buying from you, "You know, your coin is kind of odd / average / overgraded".

CTcollector

<< <i>This is something I've noticed many times over the years. Certain dealers have two personalities. One is seen when you are buying from them or just talking coins. The other, very different and usually much colder, personality is seen when it is time for him to buy from you or another customer.

Anyone else notice this? >>



Funny this came up. I just had a really head scratching experience. You guys will get a chuckle out of this.

About two years ago I purchased a coin from a dealer. This dealer is outside of my usual network but I decided to give the guy a try anyhow. I got the coin on approval, I liked it and decided to purchase it. Looking back now, I probably paid a little bit more for the coin than I should have. Anyhow, after I purchased the coin, I probably got a phone call a week for a period of three months from this guy trying to sell me something else. I wound up (luckily) never purchasing anything else from this dealer.

Fast forward two years and I decided to do some consolidating and selling with my collection. I call this same dealer up explain who I am and that I purchased a nice coin from them two years ago and I was looking to sell and asked if they had any interest in buying it back. Well as soon as I get those words out of my mouth, I get the bums rush. The dealer says he has to go and he will call me back. I offer to give the guy my phone number before he hangs up, he says he has at on his caller ID. OK. I wait a week and no return phone call. So I call and this time leave a message, still no return call. So now I am thinking I may be getting blown off. So after a week I try one last time and get the dealer on the phone. I get a few words out of my mouth, he cuts me off again and tells me he will call me back and long story short I am still waiting. So now I am pretty sure I was dealing with a sc$mbag the whole time. I don't mind someone not purchasing a coin back that they sold me previously. But the whole personality change between selling and buying was a little disheartening. So to answer your original question, yes I notice this.

PS - the rest of my consolidating and selling experience has been quite rewarding - so to be fair, there are some dealers who stand by their coins and buy back strong and are a pleasure to deal with both buying and selling. Find those and avoid the rest......

Lakesammman

It's like the cop you see at the PTA meeting and the same guy on a traffic stop - very scarey.

Boom

In a word, Yes!

xphobe

My dealer's eyesight seems to improve remarkably when he's buying. He can see rim dings, scratches, and other awful things that he never noticed years ago when he sold me the very same pieces!

Boom

<< <i>My dealer's eyesight seems to improve remarkably when he's buying. He can see rim dings, scratches, and other awful things that he never noticed years ago when he sold me the very same pieces! >>

Bochiman

<< <i>Sure, when selling to you, "This coin is undergraded / PQ for the grade".
When buying from you, "You know, your coin is kind of odd / average / overgraded". >>



Yeah...I had a jerk do that a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to test him on the "buy" side (ie...me selling TO him) with something easy so I would know whether or not to sell him something good down the line.

All his stuff is PQ and he will give you a deal on because he is "such a good guy", so he says.

So, I took a NGC MS65 Ike. Not PQ for MS65 but average. Now, he sells these for $65+. I wanted to see if he would go $20-$30. I handed him 3-4 (I forget) of them (different dates) and all of a sudden, NGC was CRAZY when they graded these AU coins as MS65. They would "be lucky to get AU55".

I sat there for a few minutes looking at a few coins I was going to purchase (as part of trade and cash) and then, when he was looking at me again, I got up, put his coins down, grabbed mine and put them away, and walked off kind of laughing.

Was talking to a few other dealers I know at the show and told them the experience (didn't mention who) and they guessed right away who it was. He has quite the rep for himself. If he didn't sell watercraft (like jetskis) he would be a used car salesman.

xphobe

<< <i>Sure, when selling to you, "This coin is undergraded / PQ for the grade".
When buying from you, "You know, your coin is kind of odd / average / overgraded". >>



You run into this a lot with any profession that deals in used stuff. I guess it's just human nature.

My (former) local dealer, who has this attitude, is one of the oldest and best known in my city. He is somewhat gruff and curt, even when he's selling. But if people considered him to be a rip-off artist then I suppose he wouldn't be in business as long as he has.

He did teach me a valuable (expensive) lesson though: take what experts say with a big grain of salt, and although it's ok to listen and learn from them, ultimately you have to use your own observations to make your own decisions. I still deal with him from time to time, carefully...

Lucky for me, my (new) favorite local dealer happens to be a lot closer to my home. He is also younger, enjoys chatting with me about the hobby, and so far has always treated me fairly.

By the way, was it wrong of me to include those hyperlinks? I don't know the etiquette around here.

WTCG

<< <i>

<< <i>Sure, when selling to you, "This coin is undergraded / PQ for the grade".
When buying from you, "You know, your coin is kind of odd / average / overgraded". >>



You run into this a lot with any profession that deals in used stuff. I guess it's just human nature.

My (former) local dealer, who has this attitude, is one of the oldest and best known in my city. He is somewhat gruff and curt, even when he's selling. But if people considered him to be a rip-off artist then I suppose he wouldn't be in business as long as he has.

He did teach me a valuable (expensive) lesson though: take what experts say with a big grain of salt, and although it's ok to listen and learn from them, ultimately you have to use your own observations to make your own decisions. I still deal with him from time to time, carefully...

Lucky for me, my (new) favorite local dealer happens to be a lot closer to my home. He is also younger, enjoys chatting with me about the hobby, and so far has always treated me fairly.

By the way, was it wrong of me to include those hyperlinks? I don't know the etiquette around here. >>



xphobe, one of the staffers of your favorite new dealership was found guilty by circumstantial evidence of stealing coins from another dealer without paying not too long ago.

northcoin

Are you sure that claim isn't bogus?

northcoin

Sorry for the pun. I did hear a dealer grumble about some delay in payment or something like that but "theft" may be an exaggeration. Of course I can see how a dealer who has his coin out on memo might start being concerned when the time frame extends out longer than anticipated. I'd like to hear Mr. Bogus's own response though as all I have heard to this point is rumor and innuendo and I noted a tinge of jealousy in what was reported to me. It was sort of along the line of, yeah I could put together a complete set too if it wasn't my money.

Barndog

Many dealers (perhaps a better term is wannabe?) approach buying/selling as follows:

Selling: PCGS/NGC/PCI/Hucky graded it MS65, so let's just check the sheet price...sell the holder, not the coin.

Buying: PCGS/NGC/PCI/Hucky doesn't know what they are doing, look at the marks and rub, yada yada yada...supposedly buying the coin, not the holder.

The better dealers are consistent in their approach. Perhaps its time to start a "recommended dealers" list, since that thread hasn't been beaten to death lately!

Conder101

<< <i>Most dealers are lucky to have even one personality. Two seems highly unlikely >>


So Andy, are you one of the lucky ones?

Res

<< <i>It's like the cop you see at the PTA meeting and the same guy on a traffic stop - very scarey. >>



When you're at a PTA meeting, you don't have to worry about getting shot or run over. A traffic stop is one of the most dangerous things in law enforcement. Of course the cop is gonna be in a zone and not initially friendly when he initiates one.

Coxe

I think most people's personalities differ some, not necessarily for the extreme worse, when you are on the buy side compared to the sell side. There are some sellers who won't buy back what they have sold for anything close to the selling price. Some coins, as Laura has been fond to point out, have no market makers even though there seem to be a lot of sellers.

MGLICKER

<< <i>Most dealers are lucky to have even one personality. Two seems highly unlikely. >>



Nearly 8 years old, this is the best quote ever on this forum.

MidLifeCrisis

Old thread...but my answer to the OP's question is no.

Boosibri

This is part of the trust equation for me. If someone other than my regular dealers has a nice coin and I buy it, I have no expectation that they are the right outlet for me when it is time to sell.

BustHalfBrian

No, but it does he finds out I'm not buying.

magikbilly

Andy's quote has staying power!

My honest Saturday late evening answer - I am not even listening beyond the number unless there is cause.

Eric

Edit to add: I am very personable!

northcoin

Looks like the links from back in 2006 have evaporated. Sure makes my replies at the time meaningless.

BLUEJAYWAY

<< <i>This is something I've noticed many times over the years. Certain dealers have two personalities. One is seen when you are buying from them or just talking coins. The other, very different and usually much colder, personality is seen when it is time for him to buy from you or another customer.

Anyone else notice this? >>

Just goes to prove there are "2 sides" to a coin (dealer).

PerryHall

<< <i>This is something I've noticed many times over the years. Certain dealers have two personalities. One is seen when you are buying from them or just talking coins. The other, very different and usually much colder, personality is seen when it is time for him to buy from you or another customer.

Anyone else notice this? >>


I've seen this too. While selling, many dealers are friendly and easy going and while buying, they are all business. I never really thought this was a big deal though.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>Sure, when selling to you, "This coin is undergraded / PQ for the grade".
When buying from you, "You know, your coin is kind of odd / average / overgraded". >>



Yeah...I had a jerk do that a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to test him on the "buy" side (ie...me selling TO him) with something easy so I would know whether or not to sell him something good down the line.

All his stuff is PQ and he will give you a deal on because he is "such a good guy", so he says.

So, I took a NGC MS65 Ike. Not PQ for MS65 but average. Now, he sells these for $65+. I wanted to see if he would go $20-$30. I handed him 3-4 (I forget) of them (different dates) and all of a sudden, NGC was CRAZY when they graded these AU coins as MS65. They would "be lucky to get AU55".

I sat there for a few minutes looking at a few coins I was going to purchase (as part of trade and cash) and then, when he was looking at me again, I got up, put his coins down, grabbed mine and put them away, and walked off kind of laughing.

Was talking to a few other dealers I know at the show and told them the experience (didn't mention who) and they guessed right away who it was. He has quite the rep for himself. If he didn't sell watercraft (like jetskis) he would be a used car salesman. >>


This was one of the original reasons for third party grading. Dealers would commonly undergrade coins when they were buying and overgrade when selling. I guess some things never change.

bidask

<< <i>This is something I've noticed many times over the years. Certain dealers have two personalities. One is seen when you are buying from them or just talking coins. The other, very different and usually much colder, personality is seen when it is time for him to buy from you or another customer.

Anyone else notice this? >>

Perhaps it seems that way because you overpaid for your coins.

TwoSides2aCoin

… about as much as the Grey Sheet.

pennyannie

I am about as anti dealer as one can be but when it comes to money it happens in most fields. Greysheet has done a big disservice with buy and ask pricing. You will have to move a ton of volume to make a decent living, buy no mistakes and hope all goes great.

Some coins are easy sellers and a lot are not. It seems to me that selling to dealers is not the best route to take on selling coins, maybe bullion if the margins are right. I do not work for free nor do I expect anyone else to. I have been down the road that my coins are overgraded dreck and the dealer offering to buy my stuff has a case full of undergraded fantastic coins that are priced at their true grade and not what the holder says.

Buy a new car and keep it spotless and 4 years later it is worth... I was offered 5 to 6k from 2 big dealerships on a dodge truck that I ended up selling for 21k. I am mad at those 2 dealers it is just what they do to make their world go round and they get a lot of takers and do not need my business.

It would scare me to death to have to make 150 to 200k salary a year being a coin dealer. There are a lot of easier ways to make a living IMO. You have B&M's, full time show dealers, retired dealers, wanna be dealers, collectors, vest pocket dealers, flippers, big auction houses and the like fighting for the dollars.

Cougar1978

It takes cost+ about 40% to make it in the coin business. 10c on the dollar will not cut it. In addition, competition is tough with all the B&M Dealers, online sellers, and show dealers involved. For many, their coin business is merely a Schedule C tax shelter.

I really don't care about the person's personality, bla bla bla when buying or selling. For me, its all in the deal. It does tick me off if they try to be manipulative: one guy I see at shows with his stupid "what is your price between bid and ask" another, a vest pocket trader in trying to rip me on the deal "wow I really like your impressive inventory, I want you to make a lot of money on this deal" in offering me a ton of junk stuff my kids would inherit.

Collectors are always shocked when they take a coin back to a dealer to sell and the offer is something like 60% of what he paid. Hey coins are a Hobby Related Retail business. If you don't like the guys offer shop it around or sell it on the Bay. In addition the coin market has been essentially dead in the water the last couple of decades: CCDN CMI index is 1008.28 vs the Jan 1990 Baseline of 1000. I keep an ongoing chart showing these changes for the year. Bullion has outperformed numismatic coins so for 2014.

I will offer you an example of how a dealers personality can change: Years ago a banknote collector in my coin club bought a Gem CU National banknote for $300 from a MA dealer. This was a little before 3rd party currency grading. When he offered it at a currency show about 18 months later to the same dealer the dealer laughed, made fun of the grade (citing a problem with spots and centering) and offered $100.

piecesofme

Collectors are always shocked when they take a coin back to a dealer to sell and the offer is something like 60% of what he paid.
I always say, there's a reason those guys have been in business for 40 years (or more) and this is usually why. You nailed it.

Now when buying, offer 60% back on a coin, just as a feeling out starting point, and see the reaction you get.

Most of my local dealers are father & son operations, there's a reason for that too. I always tell the sons that they hit the gene-pool jackpot, they haven't had to work a day in their life. If you shake their hand it's as smooth as a babys butt. Even being blessed to have fallen into their situation, most are still bitter...maybe it comes from having to deal with the public all the time, which I admit can be very taxing on ones patience.

I don't know, I guess I can see both sides of the argument and try to sort out the "troubled" ones from the established more level headed ones and do deals with those.

Coinosaurus

Ya know, for dealer or collector, there really is no free lunch. Some collectors don't believe it, but dealers really do compete against each other.

Nic

Not really. For the she's or he's.

coinkat

I managed to miss this one the first time around.

Great quote... even though I never thought of MrEureka as the Groucho Marx of the forum.