Should PCGS allow cleaned coins in registries?

sonoranmonsoon

Just a thought here. PCGS's sister division PSA slabs and grades baseball cards with qualifiers, and allows them in their registries, with a significant weighted point reduction of course. It would be interesting if PCGS would go ahead and grade and slab coins with a qualifier on the slab stating "cleaned", "altered surface", etc. Then allowing them in registries with some level of point discount. This could be a way for collectors on a budget to get closer to completion on their sets, with the understanding they will have to upgrade later to improve their weight rankings. I would be very interested in what others think about this idea?

Stooge

I always wondered about why does PCGS issue a cert # for a cleaned coin? I think that they should put them in a slab and designate whats wrong with the coin ie: Cleaned, tooled, whizzed whatever.

Later, Paul.

morgannut2

Their problem partly is branding as a high quality product. But also they have trouble with altered coins in giving a details grade. What detail is left if metal has been moved on the whole surface by whizzing or polishing down the detail? Or what do they do with a heavily tooled coin? The exception in my opinion should be for questionable color, light cleaning leaving hairlines, and a big scratch or engraved initials (damage). As long as the basic design elements are not seriously altered, they should be able to opine with a detail grade.--------------------------------------------
Won't happen though--they want to be known for quality-

sonoranmonsoon

I can understand the difficulty in determing level of coin damage when making an accessment, and clearly some coins should still be rejected. I am not sure about not overcoming the quality issue though. The sister divisions for cards and stamps (PSA and PSE) also maintain the image of high quality, and are considered the leaders in their respective areas. Certainly PSA has not seen any image deteriation from their being the quality leader, even though they have used "qualifiers" on their slabs for some time. If anything, it could improve the quality perception. The quality branding really comes from the tight grading standards, which would be unaffected by this change. I have had more confidence crossing over ANACS coins in new holders, because they started adding the "qualifiers". Before they did this, I found many cleaned coins in their old holders that would not cross. If anything, it improved the quality image at ANACS. Of course, until their grading standards are viewed as tight, they still will sell at a discount to PCGS.

flykite

Whats next? a seperate (but equal??) Registry for "white" and "color(ed)" coins???

Strom Thurmond

rap

I just had a bunch of $20 gold libertys come back from grading and one came back as "cleaned". The problem I have now is what do I do with it? I can't morally sell it on Ebay unless I list it as cleaned, and then it won't sell. If they had slabbed it I would just keep it, but now what? They charged me $30 bucks to reject it, the least they could do is slab it for that! The sticker that came with it was exactly like the ones in the slabs with no grade and cleaned on it, all they had to do was put it in the slab and I would be happy, not really, but I would feel like I got something for my money!
My real question is how do I tell when a coin has been cleaned? Just experiance? This one looked exactly like all the rest, just a little shinier, is that all they look at? I think it would have graded in the MS range if it had not been rejected. The rest came back AU58 to MS61.
I have more I want graded but do not want to have them rejected, so how do I tell?
If I did list it on ebay as cleaned is there a chance I could sell it?

QBert

Why not put them in real slabs. If they are authentic but damaged, they are still authentic. Some of the older stuff you can hardly find that has not bean cleaned at one time or another.

leothelyon

With the many under-struck coins we have in high grade holders, this issue, at best, is really up to the coin collector. PCGS could set up a registry where there are no points or GPA averages. It would be a place where you could inventory your coins. This might present a problem with those who want to be known as having the best but without quality pictures or opening your collection up for scutiny among like collectors than you're really riding the fence as an investor.

Am I off topic again? Oops!


Leo

mansco

I think all submitted coins should be encapsulated whether authentic or counterfeit. Have a different colored slab for those coins that are not authentic AND/OR gradable. There are ways to differentiate. I think they would be providing a valuable service.

PCGS has developed a quality brand, but there are other ways to protect that in the marketplace other than refusing to slab the coin.

MORGANHUNTER2

NGC will reject a cleaned or whizzed coin as well

Anacs is the only place in this grouping of TPG's that will slab it and give you a reason and a detail grade.

NCS will do a detail but no grade.

rap

My real question still is HOW do I know if a coin has been cleaned?
At $30 buck a pop plus shipping, it gets old real fast to have them rejected.
Is there a guide or book on how to tell just what happens with different things that can be done to a coin?
Like what is whizzing?
how can chemical cleaning hurt gold?
I know that rubbing or polishing is easy to see, but there is no evidence of that on this coin.

ILikeMercs

yes, right after they allow NGC coins.

Barndog

<< <i>yes, right after they allow NGC coins. >>



I can't use NGC coins?

cointime

Rap,

The coin you are asking about, PCGS most likely felt that it was over dipped. To the point that it takes away from the original luster and affects the eye appeal. Leave the coin in a chest of drawers a few months and see if it starts getting some light patina back, then try another sub.
Ken

DennisH

No.

rap

Thanks Ken, that helps.
I have noticed that most old gold coins have a dullnes to them, is that called patina? I thought it took many years to do that to gold.
How do you tell dipped luster from natual mint luster? Practice?
Looks like I got a lot of learning to do.

Longacre

Only the standard graded coins should be in the sets, in my opinion.

Keyrock

No

ajia

Should PCGS allow cleaned coins in registries? NO

Should PCGS slab lightly cleaned coins, yes. Maybe slabbing without cert number?

In fact, if you read the PCGS Guarantee of Grade & Authenticity, they state that "PCGS has a policy prohibiting the encapsulation of coins with problems such as: artificial toning, excessive cleaning, environmental damage, PVC damage, major scratches, or planchet flaws."

But what is considered excessive cleaning & major scratches?
Just wondering.

Steve27

"Should PCGS allow cleaned coins in registries?"

Yes, and they should net grade too; otherwise, they should refund the grading fees.