Why are Morgans so expensive when they aren't rare?

KoinDawg

Did you ever look at the population reports for Morgan dollars and realize just how many hundreds of thousands there of this coin? They aren't RARE by any stretch so why do they command premium prices?

A Total of 1,645,632 Morgans have been graded just by PCGS. Then add in NGC, ANACS, and all third world graders and then all the raw coins around. Seems unreasonable for people to pay such a premium for a silver dollar.

I have a friend whose father collected Morgan dollars back in the 60's when the great GSA hoard was released. His dad used to give him a Morgan Dollar for each tooth that fell out (a very nice tooth fairy), for birthdays, XMAS, other important events. He hasn't looked at them for so long he didn't even know what kind of dollars he actually had in the safe deposit box. His dad still has thousands of raw Morgans in rolls, totally unsearched, ungraded. My friend asked his dad if he still had all his silver dollars and the old man said, yeah but I haven't looked at them for years.

How many other hoards like this exist around the USA. Small time collectors back then that have aged and the coins will come to light when the old owner dies.

DennisH

Demand.

Morgans are the most collected of all coin series.

Bruceswar

supply and demand....

KoinDawg

That's exactly my point. There seems to be an ample supply. About half of the Morgans MS64 you can buy for $66.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>That's exactly my point. There seems to be an ample supply. About half of the Morgans MS64 you can buy for $66. >>



And the other half you can't, which is why they are so pricey relatively speaking. There just aren't enough 1896-S Morgans in ms64 to supply all the folks who would like to have one at a reasonable price.

cladking

Most collectors seek a coin of each date or one of each year, mint, grade, and etc.

It doesn't matter how many total there are just how many of each category. This is why rare
dates, rare grades, and rare mint marks command large premiums. A coin that's common across
all these parameters will not sell for much of a premium and it's the common ones which are seen
and make them all appear easy.

DennisH

If there are 100,000 collectors competing for only 90,000 examples of a given coin, the 90,000 coins are not going to be cheap... nor, admittedly, will they be "rare" at all.

On the other hand, if only five lefthanded widgets are known to exist but there are only two lefthanded widget collectors, then widget prices are probably going to seem pretty darn reasonable.

Rarity tends to have a lot to say about price, but demand has the last word.

Deb048gold

Although I agree that supply and demand typically drive prices,
I have always loved Morgans but have felt all along that they are way over-priced.
That's the reason I sold my Morgan collection last year.

KoinDawg

I admit the VAM craze has had a big impact on Morgan dollar collecting. Don't have to get one of each year; just find VAMs in whatever condition. Some VF-XF Morgan VAMs are being sold for $700+

DennisH

"Some VF-XF Morgan VAMs are being sold for $700+"

And several others would sell for a LOT more if they ever came up for sale at all.

Myqqy

Big demand, picky collectors.....

lava

Morgans include many sub-series. Vams, for instance, can be considered as common Morgans because there are far smaller numbers, and demand is in its infancy. Morgan prooflikes and dmpls are other sub-sets that have very low populations in higher grades, and the supply is far less than demand. I have a list of coins that I have been willing to buy for the past ten years, but I can't find them. Take a look at the Morgan pl registry set and see the important concession that PCGS just made on pls and dmpls -- PCGS has conceded many dates are so scarce they will be made an exception to the set.

Other series lack a large following, but not so with Morgans. The market is great for Morgans, and that by itself adds appeal -- I doubt you'd ever be "stuck" holding a Morgan -- someone out there will want it.

rec78

Some people collect more than one set also. Some buy full rolls of dates for investment or possibly they want to search for vams.Others collect only rare dates or CC's or VAMS. This all adds up to a huge demand even for common dates-people just like big uncirculated coins that are over 100 years old. When they get one they need more-its an ungoing vicious cycle.

curly

My guess is people like big things and Morgans are about as big as you get. They have the mystery of the old west, vams, intrigue, books have been written about them. As far as popularity goes, they are about as good as it gets, even though there are about a hundred billion of them out there.

BAJJERFAN

Also there are LOTS OF TONERS!!

From the movie Good Morning Viet Nam "Those girls are just so pretty"

Indeed they are!!

DeepCoin

Morgans are big, easy to grade (relatively) and were the original bullion coin. The point about supply and demand is a good one, also the variety of choices, i.e. VAM, DMPL, CC, date they can be collected. There are folks who specialize in the die states of the 1921.

All of this creates both demand and a reasonably liquid marketplace. You can also find well worn specimens for the time being that are not particularly expensive. These will probably all disappear soon with the price of silver above $10.

TheRaven

I agree with the statement that they are the #1 collected coin period.....

The 1996 $1 SAE is not a rare coin either, but it has continually gone up in price because everybody collects those dollars.....

carl

I doubt that Morgans are the most commonly collected coins but they are really popular lately. Enough so that companies such as Whitman even made a separate book about them. However, I still believe that they can't compare with the amount of collectors of the Lincoln Cent. Also, many books written about them. Since almost any kid that starts collecting goes for the cents because that is what they can afford and the same is true of many adults, the cent would have to be the largest collected coin.

Russ

Sometimes a readily available ample supply can actually increase demand.

Russ, NCNE

mhammerman

This is not a negative comment but having collected morgans in a previous life (the 80's) I can say that they are the most heavily marketed, most hyped, most spun coins that US collectors have to choose from...there's probably an ad in your Sunday paper for these "rare" coins. Now, to spin them a bit more there's vams and toners...but it's all good 'cause it keeps them away from my series! It's easy to collect morgans because there are tons of them, millions and millions. It's like Bajjerfan stated...half of them are cheap and easy and the other half are expensive dates, sort of like real life.

Coin On!

OKbustchaser

Years and years (decades and decades) of dealer pumping.

Coxe

<< <i>Years and years (decades and decades) of dealer pumping. >>



This is true, though the number of decades isn't that many. It all really got crazy with Paramount and Bobby Hughes and the Redfield hoard. Comparatively, the overwhelmingly larger GSA sales and Continental dispersals could be unnoticed. From their aggressive promotion, the well-publicized legal wrestling, and the romanticization of the hoard itself, it drew a lot of focus to silver dollars, Morgans primarily.

That original marketing inertia coupled nicely with a welcoming collecting public. These were, after all, big approachable coins in quantities sufficient to satifsy many approaches in collecting them. For a hedge investor, here was a numismatic, legal tender quantity entry into silver. Type collectors had great pieces highly available. Date collectors were turned upside down with the influx CC uncirculated and rarity reversals climaxed by the 1903-O. Having been largely ignored and generally a face value coin for most of its existence, suddenly specialists were popping up. The various hoards were so monumental that classification became an obsession, giving rise to a fascination with "prooflike" and seriously applying the Sheldon scan, though it is laughable what was called DMPL, MS67 and MS70 earlier on by even the most respectable firms and dealers. Varieties started slowly too, with few taking notice except for on a select few overdates and over mintmarks.

My own entry into Morgan varieties was backwards relative to most entering collectors today. I had been collecting varieties, mainly seated minors and shield nickels, and was doing a date/mintmark PL set of Morgans. Being obsessive in not selling off my duplicates, I tried justifying them as alternate varieties. Got the 1st edition VAM book to help, hardback and under and inch thick then. I was and continue to marvel at the accomplishment in authoring that work that has largely held up extremely well over time, especially considering the number of dollars and critical collectors out there. I saw a lot of silver dollars, but couldn't imagine the dedication, note-taking, and memory resources of those two guys. It is even more amazing that Leroy continues doing it to this day and hasn't burned out completely.

Anyway, variety collecting is huge today with perhaps a few ardent promoters but obviously bigger than their promotions due to fanatical dedication of collectors, a minority of which post here regularly. The whole variety side of Morgans has become extremely sophisticated and has a long way to go yet. Clashes and die crack progressions, reuse of dies, discrimination of dies that are still lumped together when they are really only commonly hubbed, repolishing schedules, ....

I agree that some valuations of common mint state Morgans are higher than demand would even dictate, though collectors continue to honor them. This is definitely true among Carson City dollars. Most dates are quite available with several being the most common of all dates in the series. The romance of the Comstock Lode, the exotic mintmark, the traditional rarity and low mintages (despite extant populations), and residual 25 year old promotion keep that going. Some of them can be very beautiful as singular type coins too.

The toned coins really are intersting. There are so many of them, a lot being 1886 and 1887 form the Continental bank dispersal. Funny thing is that not long ago the fad was blast white and people were dipping those beauties losing a century of natural toning all for immediate profits. Now they are baking them back. Nonetheless, I think they are grossly overvalued and will retreat sooner than later. The best of them will hold up longterm but will likely be discounted for a while when it all corrects. I see this area the most fragile in terms of valuation.

Prooflikes are IMO still undervalued even though they have come up quite a bit in the last ten years. That is, many dates are still undervalued. In the end, as we all know, it is about supply and demand. If enough collectors recognize the scarcity of most dates and the absolute rarity of some and begin collecting them more, they will come up. Ones that some of us here have should be untouchable for under six figures and I suspect will well before inflation would dictate it. Something to consider is the valuation ratio of some Morgan varieties to the common of their dates relative to the same for the prooflikes. The disparity can be striking when you look at high R-6 to R-8 PLs compared to more available VAMs.

So, yes, many are expensive and common but, OTOH, others are exceptionally rare and inexpensive relative to similar. Sorry this was so long.

TorinoCobra71

Pop reports are Inflated in some cases...............

TC71

northcoin

Lilkely that such collected coins are not "hoards" with rare dates. Most people just collected silver dollars for the sake of collecting them without regard to date or condition. Chances of finding anything worth more than bullion prices are unlikely.

BillJones

The Morgan Dollar is the most popular of all collector coins. When it comes to setting prices, demand is FAR MORE important than supply. If there is only one example of something, but there are no buyers the price won't amount to much.

WTCG

Morgans are worth more because they have a larger following than most, if not all, other denominations of U.S. coinage. Prices are driven by demand, promotion, availability, etc.

JRocco

The Morgan just oozes with history. It is a big coin, it is a silver coin and there are enough of them to enable a lot of people to acquire one as opposed to say... a bust quarter.