Where does Beckett get off saying this?
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
"BGS has been recognized by consumers for the last six years in a row as the industry’s top grading company."
Huh? From a Beckett commissioned poll? They are so far off the radar screen on vintage material that they're barely noticeable.
Stay classy,
Ron
Huh? From a Beckett commissioned poll? They are so far off the radar screen on vintage material that they're barely noticeable.
Stay classy,
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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Comments
New stuff...their 9.5s and 10s get the big $$$$
It all depends on which side of the glass you look through....1/2 empty..1/2 full...
"Recognized by the consumers".....yah...10 consumers of new material graded...
Remember the figures don't lie...the liars figure...
stay classy,
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Link to the story
Anyone know what the hell that is? It seems like it's some hobby publication produced by Krause, but I've never heard of it.
"About Card Trade
Card Trade Magazine is the official trade journal of the sports collectibles industry, produced by the same publisher as the hobby standard Sports Collectors Digest. Each issue is packed with news and information that hobby professionals can use to manage and further improve their businesses. Card Trade keeps you up-to-date on the happenings at the major card companies and the names behind the businesses. You'll also get important business tips on management and marketing geared specifically to the sports hobby professional. Plus, their expert staff of in-house writers and contributors will analyze products and marketing strategies by the major card companies, and the Market Report lets you know what's hot and what's not in card shops of all sizes all over the nation. For industry news, marketing strategies, and commentary, there's no better source than the official trade journal of the sports collectible industry!"
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
lsuconnman@yahoo.com
9.5's. All they care about is money. They have all marketplace users as board moderators now. They can't control the place and couldn't
price a card even if it was marked with a price!
You open up their mags and its filled with betting and gambling ads and women with balls between their legs. You have to sit there and
see all the UGLY faces of their grading staff sitting there with superman capes on, as if grading cards for a living was a superheros job
or something.
You ask these pansies about a card, or why a company takes 10 months for a redemption card and they sweep it under the rug.
Beckett is absolutly USELESS right now. There is NO ONE on their staff who could go face to face with a real collector. I would challenge
them personally to see which of us knows more about the hobby, but they don't have the balls and choose to hide behind a bunch
of equally worthless board moderators and unanswered emails.
They even tried to limit everyone to 3 trading posts a day limit, but the next day came out with their tail between their legs and said that
they are lifting that bit of wisdom.
It you want to call yourself the #1 authority in collectables, then you need to grow the balls to back yourself up! Brian Fleisher....David Lee
they both are hiding, cause they know if they ever had to answer to real collectors, they would look like children.
You want to go beckett? Why don't you put it on the line, you know where to find me!!!!!!
JS
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
are just bent cause they have given beckett all their money and can't figure out why they can't sell their Doc Gooden rookies for
50 bucks. You can add them to the worthless list too. The only thing marketplace owners know is how to sell something way
above how much it is worth! Of course ripping off the customer is ok over at beckett. Who was that guy who use to start with
10 bucks and then go rip off every old lady in the book and write it up every month in beckett?
Rich Klein is an exception, yes, but he isn't pricing cards and quite frankly his monthy Errors and Variations article isn't exactly a
stoke of genius.
Beckett has shown NO leadership. Their news is old, and they have repeatedly looked the other way as the card companies have
gotten away with MURDER!
Again bring me beckett employees, Ill eat them for lunch!
JS
Beckett seems like a company in decline. Don't be surprised if they sell off their grading division within a few years, and their printed price guides less necessary now that online guides are available. In the time I typed this post, I'd bet the "Beckett Supergraders" have slabbed 2 or 3 more BGS 10's, probably at least 1 of them an upgrade for BGSBrad.
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
What are you smoking? Is beckett making their own hash too? The difference between beckett's grading now compared to a few
years ago is freaking night and day. The were tough and people didn't like that, but at least you felt if you got a 9 then you had
a true mint card. Its fine if a company is easy or if its hard, but to change overnight, is just a joke. Alot of people spent alot of
money back in the 2000 and 2001 grading cards, and now those cards are way undergraded! What..., time for beckett to regrade
and make more money? Today's BGS 9.5 is a joke, heck they can't even tell if a card is trimmed. What in 7+ years in grading
there has never been a BGS 10 Jordan rookie, and now one suddently appears? yeah right!
...oh and did I mention the two pujols bowman chrome rookies numbered 5/500 they graded? How much of an idiot do you have
to be, to grade not one but TWO altered card.....and the most sought after modern card to boot!
Of course you can't forget about all those pacific cards they graded back in 2000.....most of them graded around 5.0's......a few weeks
later they were all gone from the registry.....of course I printed all of it off, before they swept it under the rug....and just to think, they
were legit back then! Now they are just in it for the money. When they first put graded cards in the price guide they said they wouldn't
price their own cards....yeah that last what 3 months?
....and don't forget that award winning customer service, including no replies to emails and letting paying customers wait the longest for
subscriptions and online price guides! Wouldn't you take care of the people who have subscriptions first???? I guess beckett already has
their money so whats the rush?
oh and don't forget about those hockey inserts a few months back....putting cards in the beckett that had been selling for 100+ dollars...trying
to get people to buy multiple copies....thats just sick. When beckett used to put free cards out they were wrapped, now they just put
them out with no wrap looking for some schmuck to buy 10 copies...if that wasn't worse, you actually put a story of the guy buying 8
of them at the store inside the mag! how pathetic can beckett get???
Oh and how about the Caddy predictor? UD promises that the winner of the program would get an auto of the player on the card....as Caddy lights it
up becektt raises the caddy predictor up and up....the card sells for 200+ on ebay for 2 months..then Caddy actually wraps the ROY up and
suddenly UD doesn't want to have to make all those Caddy autos.....now beckett runs some story about some of the other card being
called the wrong thing, and at the end throws a line in about the winning card will be redeemed for a RANDOM auto and not the Caddy.....
of course I was there to catch beckett in a TOTAL lie, providing them with EMAIL proof that UD was saying something else back in March...Fleisher,
Lee and company came in and tried to explain themselves, but only wound up looking like idiots. Of course they ended it by just
shutting down the thread...thats the easiest solution.
The only thing more pathetic is all the marketplace losers, crying their heads off cause ebay links in the message boards are costing them
sales..what a joke. Beckett is worthless, just shut it down and start over!
JS
As Kevin said BGS has loosened it's grading standards over the past three years. There's no arguing this. Perhaps the new standards fit in better with their business model, or maybe the head of the grading division just decided to make a change. But PSA's grading has also evolved since their inception, and have gotten tougher on cards then they were 5 years ago. Is either of these changes bad? And, if they are, what is it exactly that makes them bad? Companies change, standards change. I don't see why it's worth getting in a lather over.
Lastly, anyone that think BGS 9.5's are across the board easier to get than PSA 10's simply has not done their homework. Look no further than the pop reports for both companies for the 2006 UD Young Guns Sidney Crosby for proof of this.
Emotion aside, I think a lot of the points made about Beckett's grading are valid. Their modern grading has become suspect and their vintage grading is wildly inconsistent and therefore not taken seriously. Furthermore, as a company they have departed from their original mission and have now become an outfit that caters to gambling, Yugi-Oh, and Pokemon. Few people take their price guide seriously anymore for pre-1980 issues. I rarely check out their website but when I have I find it confusing and non user-friendly.
One more point on the grading issue: I recently bought a high dollar raw card on Ebay, and examined it closely and found what I think could be the tiniest of surface wrinkles on the back. I could've saved several days and shipping costs by walking over to Beckett and paying to have a raw card review of it with 2 day service. But I sent it to PSA instead.
I believe they are on the decline in all aspects of their operation.
Stay classy,
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
BGS 9.5 will always sell for more than a PSA 10 for modern cards
I have not found this to be the case on most cards with similar populations. yeah on cards where there are much fewer beckett examples in the marketplace this may be true but on cards where there are similar pop numbers the disparity is not always there.
<< <i>Beckett now owns the market for modern card grading.
BGS 9.5 will always sell for more than a PSA 10 for modern cards >>
This is a myth. Check the auction results for virtually any card you can think of. The hammer prices for PSA 10's and BGS 9.5's are very close, and frequently PSA 10's outperform the Beckett slabs.
This used to be true, back when Beckett just did not give out 9.5's, but it isn't true anymore.
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
I would love to see lots of examples where significant modern card cards in PSA 9 holders outperform BGS 9 cards. If you find one or two PSA cards that do better than BGS amongst the thousands of cards where BGS outperforms PSA, those will be aberrations.
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i> Just because you don't like them, don't assume that many "real" collector's don't perfer beckett over any other grading service... >>
I'm sure that there are lots of "real" collectors that do. Feel free to input whatever insult you like between "Real" and "Collector" you'd like from the following list:
dumb
stupid
naive
pathetic
blind
scissor-happy
and so on and so forth...
Sorry, but the opportunity was there, and I had to take it.
If I wanted to sell modern cards on ebay, whether bought by novice or experienced collectors, why wouldn't I send my cards to Beckett for grading???
I've been a PSA member for 3+ years, and in my small collection have 80 PSA cards and 0 graded by any other company. For my collection, it's PSA all the way. I agree that Beckett grades are a joke, they got tired of putting PSA 10'S in their own monthly magazine as the Top 10 sellers each month, so they started handing out 9.5's and 10's so they can self promote more. But on the new stuff I pull that I don't want for my own collection and want to sell, maybe I should give BGS a try. Some people are obviously shelling out huge dollars still for 9.5's and 10's.
any thoughts??
shawn
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>I challenege anyone who says that beckett grading is a joke to try it for yourself and do a crack and re-submit test. Regardless of what you think, from my experieince, it is still easier to get a Bgs9.5 into a psa 10 holder then it is to get a psa 10 in a bgs 9.5 holder. >>
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>Anybody who says PSA is on par with BGS in terms of prices for post 1995 cards is in denial.
I would love to see lots of examples where significant modern card cards in PSA 9 holders outperform BGS 9 cards. If you find one or two PSA cards that do better than BGS amongst the thousands of cards where BGS outperforms PSA, those will be aberrations. >>
How many examples would you need to admit your wrong? Because I'm sure I can find them, but I don't want to go through the trouble of searching old auctions and then have you say that the 'x' number of cards I came up with are aberrations.
In other words, tell me how many cards you would want to see in order to rethink your position.
Example- the last four BGS 9 Topps Chrome Lebrons sold for $56, $52, $41 and $39. The last four PSA 9's sold for $41, $41, $35 and $61.
<< <i>All this being said...........
If I wanted to sell modern cards on ebay, whether bought by novice or experienced collectors, why wouldn't I send my cards to Beckett for grading???
I've been a PSA member for 3+ years, and in my small collection have 80 PSA cards and 0 graded by any other company. For my collection, it's PSA all the way. I agree that Beckett grades are a joke, they got tired of putting PSA 10'S in their own monthly magazine as the Top 10 sellers each month, so they started handing out 9.5's and 10's so they can self promote more. But on the new stuff I pull that I don't want for my own collection and want to sell, maybe I should give BGS a try. Some people are obviously shelling out huge dollars still for 9.5's and 10's.
any thoughts??
shawn >>
Koby's opinion aside, PSA and BGS are basically six of one, half dozen of another when it comes to modern cards. This idea that BGS 9.5's sell for more came about around 4 years ago when cards like the 1986 Topps and Fleer Bonds' would go for 2-4x more in a BGS holder than a PSA holder. For 80's and early 90's issues this trend held for some time, due largely to the fact that the Beckett was perceived to be the tougher grader.
With the new stuff now it doesn't really matter. Look at any heavily traded card-- 2003 Topps Chrome Lebron, the 2006 UD Young Guns Sidney Crosby, etc. etc.-- and you'll see similar prices being paid for both PSA and BGS slabs. The two real compelling reasons to submit to BGS are the prospect of a pristine 10 and the (usually) quicker turnaround times. But aside from that it doesn't make much difference.
<< <i>Baseball fanatic you are absolutely right and the BGS defenders are burying their heads in the sand. BECKETT is the easiest of the big 4 to pass trimmed cards thru go and befriend the people selling bgs and they will flat out tell you this. >>
What you neglect to mention is that the BGS graders do a higher proportion of their trade with modern cards as opposed to vintage, which means they're going to see more trim jobs; and, it follows, end up slabbing more trim jobs. Why? Because the penalty for trimming modern cards isn't as steep as it is for vintage. If you trim a Brandon Wood Xfractor and nobody slabs it you can flip it on Ebay, raw, for what you paid for it. People have no trouble paying mint prices for raw modern cards, so you don't really lose anything.
Now try this with a 1962 Mantle. Crack it out of the PSA slab, trim the corners and send it in. If it doesn't cross to a PSA 9 or better holder what are you going to do? NOBODY is going to pay PSA 8 price for a raw card like this if all they have to go by is a scan. So, instead of breaking even on the deal you lose 100's of dollars.
True.
PSA for everything
SGC for vintage pre war
BGS for modern
<< <i>Problem is, 62 Mantles have been laying around for 40 years. Prior and Albert rookies came out of packs and right into top loads. Who are we kidding here? Dont know of many BGS 6's right out of the pack in the last 3 years......... >>
What does this have to do with the point I'm trying to make? What I'm saying is that a dealer/collector is not penalized for trimming a modern card the same way they are for trimming a vintage card, so if follows that more modern cards (proportionately) are going to be trimmed. Thus, if you grade more modern cards, you're going to slab more trimmed cards, even if the % of trimmed cards that get through the two sets of graders are identical.
<< <i>BS. Beckett PROMOTES trimming and unethical dealers make a 6 figure plus living off of it. Period. >>
Promotes trimming?
That is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on this forum.
COLLECTING (other than belly button lint):
-Evgeni Malkin (when Pittsburgh pays the bribe money, er, ruble)
-Heath Miller (the new TE bullseye for Big Ben)
-Sport Kings in off-grade PSA (for you vintage freaks)
<< <i>
<< <i>BS. Beckett PROMOTES trimming and unethical dealers make a 6 figure plus living off of it. Period. >>
Promotes trimming?
That is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on this forum. >>
This may or may not be true, but you'd really need some facts to support a claim like that. Somebody posted a thread on the Beckett boards a while ago of I believe a shoelessjoe submission, where something like 90% of the cards had been rejected.
I've never seen any proof that Beckett 'promotes' trimming.
<< <i>BS. Beckett PROMOTES trimming and unethical dealers make a 6 figure plus living off of it. Period. >>
I wouldn't use the word promote here - but they don't seem to discourage it. And, the second part of that sentence is straight up fact.
<< <i>
<< <i>BS. Beckett PROMOTES trimming and unethical dealers make a 6 figure plus living off of it. Period. >>
I wouldn't use the word promote here - but they don't seem to discourage it. And, the second part of that sentence is straight up fact. >>
Hey ctsox,
I don't want to start a nuclear war here, but have you ever submitted to BGS? Because the feeling I'm getting from this thread is that a number of posters who are quick to jump on Beckett have never used their grading services and probably never owned more than half a dozen Beckett slabs. If anyone here does fall into this catagory then kindly remove yourself from the discussion, as you have nothing to contribute.
I'd be VERY interested to hear from anyone who's done a substantial amount of submitting to BGS. I've personally submitted about 250 cards to them, and of those about 14 were initially rejected by PSA for evid. of trimming. Of those 14 cards 11 were rejected by Beckett, and three were slabbed. This is roughly in line with my success ratio with PSA when I've resubmitted cards that were previously rejected, so I myself have no reason to believe that BGS is any more or less strict about trim jobs then PSA.
Also, nobody needs to bring up the old Snowball threads as proof. Yes, that SP Brady RC was trimmed. As was the Prior card. But that is just two cards, and you cannot judge a company based on the fact that they've slabbed two trim jobs.
I'm not here to defend Beckett, and I'm very receptive to arguments that dismiss Beckett's grading as substandard SO LONG as those arguments are buttressed by fact.
You mean this guy?
bought
sold
bought
sold
Assuming the serial number says 48 (and that's what it looks like to me), the bottom left corner of the SPX rookie looks a lot better in the psa 10 holder than it did in the first auction. It was either a terrible scan, a hatchet job, or some recoloring was done (or maybe a combination of the two). It looks like there's less border b/w the bottom edge and the "rookie jersey" text. Anyway, SPX cards are very tough - I certainly wouldn't drop $500+ on an spx rookie described as nm/mt on ebay and expect to get a gem mint card in the mail. The best you could hope for is to get a mint replacement card from UD, but that takes a while and the card wouldn't have the same serial number.
I also noticed that the seller of the Marvin Williams had described other cards he sold as being mint. It would be interesting to hear why he only graded that one nm/mt before he sold it to the dealer who got it in a psa 10 holder.
Most of the other cards he bought weren't serial numbered, but he also bought a raw playoff contenders steve smith rc and just sold one as a psa 10. There's no way to prove they were the same card, but that card has blue borders and should be pretty tough. Again, very lucky for an ebay purchase. And, for the record, he's been selling more psa cards as of late than bgs.
Also, it's obvious that the more hype that surrounds sales (even phantom ones) of BGS 10 slabs, the more they can use that hype to try and hold onto their portion of the modern grading market. They failed miserably at vintage grading, and even diluted their brand with BCCG. None of this is new news, either. If you like BGS and their grading, good for you. I would hate to own any high dollar items in their holders, because I do not have complete trust in their practices.
<< <i>Boopotts, I do not submit to BGS - but I have a few friends that swear by them. The reason why? They feel that the modern cards they submit to BGS bring them more money when sold, and as of late, the perception among them (and my feeling is it's reality) is that the once elusive 9.5's and 10's are now easier to obtain. You don't have to personally submit to them to see this trend - the evidence is all around you (and even on Beckett's own board). Bury your head in the sand if you wish, but don't be surprised when the Beckett grading backlash continues to swell. All the notorious card doctors (of modern issues) have had their work in BGS slabs.
Also, it's obvious that the more hype that surrounds sales (even phantom ones) of BGS 10 slabs, the more they can use that hype to try and hold onto their portion of the modern grading market. They failed miserably at vintage grading, and even diluted their brand with BCCG. None of this is new news, either. If you like BGS and their grading, good for you. I would hate to own any high dollar items in their holders, because I do not have complete trust in their practices. >>
Again, this is just totally missing the point. PSA makes 'six figure profit' for unethical dealers as well. SDavid, this board's premiere card detective, has time and time again shown us cards in PSA 10 slabs that appear to have been worked on. Not only the Ovechkin he just pointed out, but also some '86 Fleer basketball and a bunch of stuff from Joe Tuttle and his crew. If you ever track the buying and selling ID's on Ebay of some of PSA's largest (or at least most prominent) customers you'll see some very illuminating transactions. Ever wonder why rockbottomsports was paying above market value for a centered PSA 8 Montana RC? What, you think they just got the bug to own one?
If you think BGS 9.5's are easier to get than PSA 10's that's fine. In fact, I'd be more than inclined to agree. Check out the pops for most modern cards and the % of gem mint slabs will be higher for Beckett than PSA.
I fail to see how I'm 'burying my head in the sand'. Are Beckett 9.5's easier to get now than they used to be? If you've read this entire thread you'll see that I completely agreed with this in my initial post. Does Beckett grade a higher number of trim jobs than PSA? Probably, but I doubt it has anything to do with the quality of the graders. Read my earlier posts in this thread for a possible explanation as to why you see more trim jobs in BGs slabs than PSA slabs.
The question is this: Is Beckett an inferior product? Do a higher percentage of their modern gem mint slabs hold trim jobs than PSA's? I don't think so, and nobody has offered any compelling evidence to the contrary. All we get is a bunch of guys who collect '60's baseball mouthing off about what a lousy job Beckett does of grading modern cards. Well, if a guy doesn't buy, collect or deal modern cards how in the hell can he compare the way two companies grade these cards? I can count on two hands the number of pre war cards I've ever owned, so you won't see me mouthing off about the relative differences in pre-war grading between SGC and PSA. But I HAVE owned quite a few modern cards, and had quite a few graded by both companies, and I've not seen any substantive difference in the grading quality between the two.
If someone else has evidence to the contrary then by all means step forward. I'm not saying 'BGS is better', or even 'BGS is as good'. I'm saying that I have no evidence that BGS is WORSE.