Topps Proofs

Tedw9

Do any of you collect them? Not the ones produced now, but the old ones. I used to purchase them from Alan Hagar and now I get them from the Topps Vault auctions. Whats your opinion of them? Does anyone grade them? How would you value them compared to a regular card?

If you have any, what ones do you have in your collection?

Carew29

I have the 1974 Topps Proof of Rod Carew, 1969 Topps Deckle Proof of Rod Carew, and the back of the 1978 Topps Rod Carew. Pretty much 1/1's.

Tedw9

Nice collection of a Hof'er!

Did you get them from the Topps Vault?

frankhardy

Could someone explain to me exactly what a "proof" is?

kimo75

I like them and have the following Stargell proofs:

1968 topps
1970 Topps
1970 Topps Super
1971 Topps Coin
1971 Topps Super
1972 Candy Lids Progressive (thanks Bob)
1973 Candy Lid
1974 Topps #100
1980 Topps Color test
1981 Kelloggs Acetate Progressive Proofs
1981 Topps
1974 Topps Puzzle

These are off the top of my head. I know I have others and need to get organized! I got some from Topps Vault and some from shows/Hager.

QUITCRAB

I collect brooks Robinson Proofs-I am not into blank back versions of the regular topps issues-I like the square cut and odd ball topps issues like candy lids, 68 game cards, 69 super proof,74 deckle.I think they are great additions to any collection-my favorite proof is the 69 super and the 64 topps coins proof sheet. Scott

Stone193

I collect proofs, original pen and ink comic art for sports cards and even some wrapper proofs.

Here's a favorite of mine - some 73T Lid proofs:



As it goes for value...

I'm clueless. Obviously star cards would be in far greater demand than commons I would guess.

To my knowledge, no one will grade them - I would like for PSA to consider holdering them and just grading them as "authentic." ASA graded stuff was a "Hager" special.

mike

Carew29

Yes mine were purchased years ago from Topps Vault. I thought all this stuff got dumped at the Gernsey Auction, but apparently not. I also have some football progression set proofs from the early 70's.

Stone193

<< <i>Could someone explain to me exactly what a "proof" is? >>


Frank
I don't know "the" definition but my understanding is that they are "trial" samples to check their work before they go into mass production. They can check the centering of the pic, the overall appearance as well as color.

I would guess the progressive proofs - which show the different colors, will allow them to insure they are getting the full bleed of each color - that way they are assured the final printing will have the proper hue?

mike

Here's an example of color separation - progressive proof:

brianwintersfan

Just won this gem tonight. His name on this proof is in yellow and on the actual card it's white.

Stone193

<< <i>Just won this gem tonight. His name on this proof is in yellow and on the actual card it's white.

>>


Brian
I assume it's blank backed?

mike

brianwintersfan

<< <i>I assume it's blank backed? >>



Yes

frankhardy

Mike,

Does that mean that each proof is probably 1 of 1? If it's just a trial, then why would they need more than one or one of each color in the case of the color seperation? I know I have what I think is a proof in a 1969 Topps 4 in 1. It does not have the dividing lines between the mini stickers. It's all one piece. I also have a 1974 Topps Deckle Edge Lou Brock where the edges are straight and not "deckled". Surely, they are not 1 of 1?

baseballfanatic

"1 of 1" seems to be a keyword that almost all sellers use when selling proofs, but only Sy Berger knows for sure. We know that each color seperation comes with four cards plus the final so that makes five of each, plus the number of sheets they ran off for the trial means 5 times that amount. Add the acetate layovers, flexichromes, printing plates, negatives, and each card comes with a ton of 1 of 1 proofs. Most of this stuff was meant for the garbage, so a lot of hardcore collectors dont pay much attention to it, but a lot of hardcore collectors consider this to be the rarest of the rare. It's all in what you like to collect.........

bishop

There is a 1968 Topps Deckle Edge Proof sheet with 9 players, including Yastremski and future HOF Dave Adlesh. It is blank backed and is 7 and 3/4 " by 11 ". Individual cards can be found from cut proof sheets. There are 3 variations of the sheet in which the facsimle autographs can be found in red, black or blue. I have found that some demented people will pay a lot for the blue.

fsjeter

I have a blank front slick proof of a 1976-77 Topps #44 Calvin Murphy. A thicker, brighter, almost plastic stock than the regular issue. I got it from the Topps Vault. I wish I could have gotten more from the set.

Scott

QUITCRAB

[/IMG]

Stone193

<< <i>Mike,

Does that mean that each proof is probably 1 of 1? If it's just a trial, then why would they need more than one or one of each color in the case of the color seperation? I know I have what I think is a proof in a 1969 Topps Deckle edge. It does not have the dividing lines between the mini stickers. It's all one piece. I also have a 1974 Topps Deckle Edge Lou Brock where the edges are straight and not "deckled". Surely, they are not 1 of 1? >>


Frank
I don't know. But, my guess along with input here, no.

They probably run off a bit to insure the presses consistently correct?

We need some guys who work for printers of this kind of stuff to know.

Good questions.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>There is a 1968 Topps Deckle Edge Proof sheet with 9 players, including Yastremski and future HOF Dave Adlesh. It is blank backed and is 7 and 3/4 " by 11 ". Individual cards can be found from cut proof sheets. There are 3 variations of the sheet in which the facsimle autographs can be found in red, black or blue. I have found that some demented people will pay a lot for the blue. >>


Al

Nothing like being "outed" on a national forum.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>
Al
Nothing like being "outed" on a national forum.
>>


Yeah, that must suck.

Tedw9

Wow, there are more of you that collect these proofs than I thought!

As far as the 1/1 idea goes, I am not sure either. I read at one time that with the aluminum proofs there are at most 2 of each color, therefore 8 max of any one card. I am not sure how true this is. I have the old Alan Hagar Proof Price Guide which explains what each proof is and if anyone would like me to post this information from the book, please just let me know.

That being said, this is what I have for proofs.

1962 Topps 174B Carl Willey w/hat (2 red proof aluminum plates)

1962 Topps 385 Early Wynn black proof aluminum plate

1964 Topps 84 Carl Willey blank back proof

1964 Topps Stamps 4 on 1 Carl Willey black proof

1966 Topps 185 Bob Buhl blank back proof

1972 Topps 210 Denny McLain blank back proof (Denny shares the same last name with me and same birthday except he is 25 years older)

1984 Topps 720 Dwight Evans unissued blank back proof (Face shot in bottom corner totally inside the box)

1988 OPC Mark McGwire (2), Tony Gwynn (2), Ozzie Smith blank back proofs

1986-87 OPC Cam Neely blank back proof strip of 3

And even though its not a "proof" in that sense, I also have the 1962 Topps 174A Carl Willey without hat negative.


I've always been of the hardcore collectors who is of the belief that these are the rare of rare. Considering that alot of these old proofs were discarded or destroyed, these are hidden gems I believe. Either way, I think they are fun to collect, and each one I get gives me another thrill. At one time I had over half of the 1960 Fleer Football set in proof form. But divorce seperated me and that dream collection.

I must say, I'm impressed at what proofs you guys own. But considering what stuff is shown in the Scan thread, I shouldn't be suprised!
Actually, I think I will show some of my proofs off in the Scan thread.

bishop

Some proofs actually end up with listings in the SCD Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, such as the three 1960 proofs of Cimoli, Hadley and maybe Throneberry; the 1967 Roger Maris as Yankee card, and the 1984 Encased set, the 1985 Topps Mini Blank back set: and the aformentioned 1968 Deckle proof sheet

QUITCRAB

QUITCRAB

That Clemente was my first scan posted on the board! Iam so proud of myself! I am trying another

QUITCRAB

One more! this is my favorite proof !
as you can see I am having some issues on scan size!

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>

<< <i>Mike,

Does that mean that each proof is probably 1 of 1? If it's just a trial, then why would they need more than one or one of each color in the case of the color seperation? I know I have what I think is a proof in a 1969 Topps Deckle edge. It does not have the dividing lines between the mini stickers. It's all one piece. I also have a 1974 Topps Deckle Edge Lou Brock where the edges are straight and not "deckled". Surely, they are not 1 of 1? >>


Frank
I don't know. But, my guess along with input here, no.

They probably run off a bit to insure the presses consistently correct?

We need some guys who work for printers of this kind of stuff to know.

Good questions.

mike >>



I spent 14 years in the printing business Mike and could not give a better explanation.

The separations are printed to check density of each color, which will determine the shade of a certain color. In some processes all colors are laid down before the sheet leaves the press, producing the final product at once. In other processes two colors are laid down, the sheet is then run back through the press to apply the other two. In really primitve printing each is laid down in a different "pass." Four, and I believe eight color process exists, with the most common being four (cyan, yellow, black, magenta).

Printing multiple proofs ensures consistency. Ink density can vary throughout a run and samples are taken every certain number of sheets. Proofs though are usually the first printed as they check for errors and make adjustments. Proofs are usually high quality and sometimes are not even run on the press used in production.

It's been 10 years so I hope I remembered it correctly.

Keith

bobsbbcards

Keith,
Very interesting information. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Bob

helionaut

About a year ago Topps Vault sold a pair of 1981 Bake McBride "progressive" proofs I think they're called. They were 2 colors, like magenta/yellow and blue/yellow. Finally last week they offered the other half of the run, the magenta/blue and the black. They arrived in quick time and they are the cornerstone of my Bake collection. Was planning to scan them in this weekend. It's a pretty cool thing to own, if I do say so. I'm not grading them or anything, just savoring the Baked goodness.

Stone193

Thanx Keith

Proofs are fun to have since they are a departure from the regular stuff we all pick up.

Helio

I'm looking forward to seeing your proof set.

mike

Tedw9

Nice cards Quitcrab, that Clemente is sweet!

Thank you for sharing that wealth of information SoFLPhillyFan.


Isn't that a thrill when you find something that rare for your collection helionaut? I'd love to see a scan of your Baked Man!


And I agree 100% with Stone, these proofs are a bit different from the regular run of the mill cards we all collect which makes it a bit more fun for me.

Stone193

I don't get to talk about these very often, so I will apologize for kind of hijacking in that I would like to show a few more:

Here's a three panel Bkb:



A 52T Wings - in Spanish proof:



Some more 73T Lid proofs:



And a 73T Wanted Posters - wrapper proof - I also have a waxed pack - they're both framed together and look great!



I've got others but I don't want to hog the show or anything.
mike

jimq112

<< <i>I have the 1974 Topps Proof of Rod Carew, 1969 Topps Deckle Proof of Rod Carew, and the back of the 1978 Topps Rod Carew. Pretty much 1/1's. >>



I don't know if you saw them but there are 2 carew proofs on ebay right now, one is a 78 leaders card and the other is a 69 topps deckle proof. Might be nice to have both of the 69s (if the one on ebay isn't yours)

bobsbbcards

<< <i>
I've got others but I don't want to hog the show or anything.
mike >>


Mike,
You're not hogging--you're sharing. Keep the eye candy coming!!
Bob

mcholke

Bob in the spirit of not hogging but sharing I thought I would add a few of my favorite Perez proofs


1981 Kellogs


1975 Hostess mock up, eventual panel changed


1971 Topps Coin

mcholke

Could not resist to add a couple more


1981 Kelloggs before 3-D added


1974 Topps Stamps sheet


1971 Topps Super

Stone193

Incredible Perez collection!

I especially like the "mock ups" - I've seen them but don't have any.

A photo mockup from the mars attacks set went up in toppsvault and it went for more than I wanted to spend!

thanx for sharing mcholke - you did Perez proud!
mike

mcholke

Mike

Thanks, it just takes a little encouragement for me to post some more examples


1967 Topps Original Art card back


1986 Donruss DK Color Proof


1986 Donruss Color Proof


1967 Topps proof blanback

bobsbbcards

Kevin,
Wow!! Impressive array of Atanasio proofs. I really like the 1981 2-D card and the Super proof. Very nice.
Bob

mcholke

Bob

Thanks, I will refrain from posting other photos. I do have the 1971 Kelloggs 2D like the 1981 as well as other regular issue Topps hanging around in the collection.

Kevin

Stone193

Kevin
Please keep'm comin!

Ya don't get to see this kind of stuff very often.

Nice comic art.

That's one of the big things I collect. I've got somewhere in the 75 to 100 pieces.

mike

mcholke

Back by popular demand


1974 Deckle undeckled (not really a proof but close)


1985 OPC


1972 Topps


1969 Topps

That is it for tonight. I will have to dig around and see if I can find others for another time.

jackstraw

Here is my contribution to this thread.

mcholke

Here are a few more I dug out tonight


1974 Reds Stamp Album Proof


1971 Kelloggs 2D Proof


1984 Topps Stickers


1968 Topps Action All Star Stickers (not mine but eye candy)

Stone193

Very nice stuff!

That 68 sticker proof - if the one with Mantle went for some serious bucks.

Here's a little different kind of proof:



And I thought I would throw in a Spiderman comic original art proof that is pre-production:



There must a zillion of these out there - just think of all the pages these guys do?

mike

pandrews

here's an article on topps proofs..

AlanAllen

Great stuff! I buy all the Marcus Allens I see, which thus far have all been from the Topps Vault. Well, I was outbid on a couple . I have not sen any Allens surface from the old Guersey's auction, although I've heard they exist. Paying well If you can locate one!

Joe

bishop

Thanks, PA

Tedw9

Thanks for posting that Pandrews!

Stone193

Perry

Thanx for posting the link.

Ya know...I can't believe I posted that stuff in April? Seems like yesterday!

Wow!
mike

Stone193

<< <i>One old trick is to take a regular uncut sheet of cards, cut the sheet into panels of two to nine cards, and call them "proof sheets." >>


Unless purchased from the toppsvault, I would be really careful about this point. I don't place a super high premium on proofs myself anyways - there's probably more of them than we may think?



<< <i>Many "coin" or circle shaped cards were also released in uncut sheet form, allowing dishonest sellers to cut these cards off the sheets in square patterns, and call them proofs (after all, they are square shaped, right?) >>


This is one I wasn't aware of? I did pick up a proof from a board member a long time ago - I may have to take a closer look at that one?

Does anyone know if 73T lids came in production sheets vs. true proofs?

mike

NickM

I collect proof cards too. I have some oversize '81 Donruss proofs, a '81 Kellogg's Steve Garvey metal front plate, a '62 Topps high # blank back proof quarter sheet (33 cards) with printer's notes [I know this isn't one of a kind, because I've seen another in a subsequent catalog auction - it went for about 40% more than I paid for mine], and several color separations and other proofs purchased from Topps Vault (including Walt Bellamy and Mel Blount, and 4 '77 Topps baseball acetate proofs that use the OPC photo and team banner for that year [different from the Topps card of those players]).

I also have a sheet of 9 '76 Topps Cloth Stickers (Dyer and Apodaca), which may or may not count as a proof.

Nick

[edited for typos]