Greysheet prices vs market value.
Millertime
Posts: 2,048 ✭✭
The main coin shop I visit uses the greysheet for pricing. They have prices marked on each coin but when you select what you want they look it up in the greysheet (right in front of you) and put it in the computer, then their 15% markup is added and that's whay you pay. I would say that 95% of their inventory is raw coins but they do have a partial wall with slabs (mostly PCGS and some NGC) of higher priced coins. It's a perfect store for anyone on a budget or filling a type set because in each denomination they carry a wide range of grades. Overall I would say their grading is fairly accurate.
On other threads it's been mentioned that the greysheet doesn't always reflect market value. Is this true for fairly common coins or just the high priced rarities? Not counting errors or varieties is there anything you would look for that you could buy at greysheet +15% and still make money selling it for market value?
Millertime
On other threads it's been mentioned that the greysheet doesn't always reflect market value. Is this true for fairly common coins or just the high priced rarities? Not counting errors or varieties is there anything you would look for that you could buy at greysheet +15% and still make money selling it for market value?
Millertime
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I wouldn't buy at Ask + 15% unless it was a monster for the grade ( But if it was, it would most likely be marked up accordingly)
A general observation from the book "Coin collecting for dummies"
( This of coarse only is applicable to the common, highly traded items)
You can almost always buy at ask, you cam mostly buy between bis and ask, and you can sometimes buy at bid.
Some dealers try to get you both ways-- "We buy at 15% back of Bid", and then "we Sell at 15% over ask".
If you question them, they say "The greysheet is a dealer to dealer wholesale price list, not retail"
This is happenening less and less with the explosion of internet sale and sites.
It all comes down to the availability of information, When there were limited sources, you had to accept their information from the graysheet, or your own observations on the boarse.
A dealer may start at 15% over ask (If he can get it why not?) But may come down below ask with the proper negociation.
A witty saying proves nothing- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor
does the truth become error because nobody will see it. -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
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The thing about raw coins is that the dealer can make the grade anything he likes within reason if he's dealing with knowledgeable customers. If he is dealing with less than knowledgeable customers, he can rip them a new one.
Although those of us who know how to grade coins can make decent predictions as what something will grade when it is sent in, we are not perfect. For that reason, Graysheet + 15% is a pretty good mark-up for a dealer, especially if he can buy coins for less than “bid.”
<< <i> They have prices marked on each coin but when you select what you want they look it up in the greysheet (right in front of you) and put it in the computer, then their 15% markup is added and that's whay you pay. >>
I suppose the price you receive is always lower ? Personally if I picked a coin out that was already priced and they did not honor the price beating feet to the door would be done. Also they would lose a customer.
<< <i>It's a perfect store for anyone on a budget or filling a type set because in each denomination they carry a wide range of grades. Overall I would say their grading is fairly accurate. >>
Just added this to go along with the above. Perfect Store ????
Now to the Gray Sheet. Never and I mean Never has a coin dealer I have purchased from looked up a coin and then add 15% after getting the Gray Sheet price. It looks like your shop owner is lazy and prices the coins one time. Instead of re-pricing, or taking the price off all together which would make more sense, he just does the re-pricing after a customer has picked a coin out at a price he can afford or is willing to pay for the coin. Again the shop door would not be close enough for me and if the door hit me in the a$$ that would be great.
Ken
Ken
15% over sheet price on RAW coins is nuts. They probably offer zip when buying, like most dealers, so the markup is more like 75-90%.
Unless you can cherrypick varities or really know how to grade (like a pro) I'd avoid buying there.
You're getting burned with every purchase.
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<< <i>
<< <i> They have prices marked on each coin but when you select what you want they look it up in the greysheet (right in front of you) and put it in the computer, then their 15% markup is added and that's whay you pay. >>
I suppose the price you receive is always lower ? Personally if I picked a coin out that was already priced and they did not honor the price beating feet to the door would be done. Also they would lose a customer.
<< <i>It's a perfect store for anyone on a budget or filling a type set because in each denomination they carry a wide range of grades. Overall I would say their grading is fairly accurate. >>
Just added this to go along with the above. Perfect Store ????
Now to the Gray Sheet. Never and I mean Never has a coin dealer I have purchased from looked up a coin and then add 15% after getting the Gray Sheet price. It looks like your shop owner is lazy and prices the coins one time. Instead of re-pricing, or taking the price off all together which would make more sense, he just does the re-pricing after a customer has picked a coin out at a price he can afford or is willing to pay for the coin. Again the shop door would not be close enough for me and if the door hit me in the a$$ that would be great.
Ken
Ken >>
Each coin is placed in a CoinEdge 2x2 holder with the grade and price on the label. The price is based on greysheet plus the markup at the time it's placed in inventory. There's a sign on each table that says the prices marked is a guide only and will vary depending on market conditions. When you select the coin you want they take it to the computer and enter the coin and grade then they look up the value in the current greysheet and enter that, the markup is calculated and the final price is what you pay. I've had prices end up higher and lower than the sticker price. I don't typically bargain well and I'm not spending hundreds of dollars at a time but there has been a few occasions when I'm a few bucks short and they have come down on the price.
I guess "perfect store" was a little strong in that sentence. They have a wide selection of coins in each denomination and grades range from AG to MS. I personally like putting VF coins in my type album and I could easily fill an album there so it's my favorite coin shop. The customer service is also good so even if prices are a bit high it beats dealing with some lower priced dealers.
Millertime
Complete Dime Set
<< <i>Never has a coin dealer I have purchased from looked up a coin and then add 15% after getting the Gray Sheet price.
15% over sheet price on RAW coins is nuts. They probably offer zip when buying, like most dealers, so the markup is more like 75-90%.
Unless you can cherrypick varities or really know how to grade (like a pro) I'd avoid buying there.
You're getting burned with every purchase. >>
You could very well be right on the overall markup since I haven't sold anything to them. I'll have to check next time I'm there on the 15% markup, I could be wrong. The only example I have of their grading is an 1881-S (I think) Morgan graded MS-63 by them. It was used in a swap and sent to one of the Morgan gurus on the board who said it was a solid MS-64. For someone (like me) collecting lower grade coins it beats the hell out of buying the crap on eBay. The only other place to hold in hand the coins is the coin shows and I don't think the prices there are any better.
Millertime
Complete Dime Set
Bottom line. The value for a given coin is determined by a buyer and seller agreement, not by a price in a price publication. JMHO. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
greysheet is a joke on these.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Buy up their inventory of problem-free, original surface, pre-1808 coins. >>
And send them here, please! Expect to pay multiples of sheet for nice early coins, 2x, 3x or better. Early type dealers love to see a seller pull out the Greysheet. They immediately try to calculate how much available cash they have to spend.
The Blue Sheet is for Certified coins sight-unseen. That means ANY coin slabbed, usually just made the grade if you purchase sight-unseen.
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Collector of Barber Halves, Commems, MS64FBL Frankies, Full Step Jeffersons & Mint state Washington Quarters
<< <i>I believe the Grey Sheet is for any coin, not just graded coins. >>
That's the theory and it's what it says on the Gray Sheet, but in practice at a bourse raw coins bring less money in sight seen tranactions than PCGS and NGC graded coins.
Millertime if you go to a coin store often enough that they know you, you should tell them point blank that if they do that to you if farewell.
What is much more important than the price is the dealer's grading. Post a few example pics if you have them. If the grading is conservative and the coins are problem free, I would love to have a store like that near me. If the grading is liberal, and/or the coins are cleaned, dipped out junkers, then 50% of greysheet might not be a bargain.
/ edited for typos /
What is much more important than the price is the dealer's grading. Post a few example pics if you have them. If the grading is conservative and the coins are problem free, I would love to have a store like that near me. If the grading is liberal, and/or the coins are cleaned, dipped out junkers, then 50% of greysheet might not be a bargain.
I'd rather pay Full Retail for nice coins properly graded than Wholesale for overgraded junk.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
on a continuum for that one grade point.
On a MS65 bust half grey sheet is $6800. Yet 90% of the MS65's on the market for sale fall on the lower side of grey sheet since most are ugly or doggy. They fetch $4200-$5800. Some of the MS65's just sold at ANR realized around $20,000. Nice price range for a MS65: $4200 vs. $20,000 against a $6800 grey sheet bid. So a grey sheet is gonna tell you what your MS bust half is worth? Think again.
Bottom line is that you need to be able to grade to within a gnat's azz to price accordingly. Most coins sold are overpriced or underpriced. Makes it an interesting game since most are overpriced.
roadrunner