Are any of the buyers really upset that they did not honor the auction?
I think the seller could come up with a way to say thanks for the covering of their A** by the members of this forum. They should al least give + feedback.
Tradedollarnut...to make it clear...being a BUSINESS and selling coins, they are supposed to have business accumen...making a prudent decision to sell a coin for the an amount-pricing it appropriately as they are in business to KNOW what they are worth...they are EXPERTS...they are supposed to know what they are doing...the fact they didnt pay attention to the $$ amount is careless...who should bear the risk of the mistake? In business vs consumer, the BUSINESS bears the risk of the mistake...individual vs individual, its a different case...noone is holding themself out to be an expert...this would be decided by who knows more...whether either or both sides should have known it was a mistake....Superior SHOULD have known what to price these coins at...THEY are experts..THEY are in business to sell coins....THEY should KNOW in advance what the prices are going to show when they are put on auction, their website, etc ......
This is what happens when laymen get involved in law. Now I know why my attorney just rolls his eyes when I make silly statements like this.
Superior does have expert knowledge and indeed does know how to price the coins. However, in listing the coins they erroneously put a buy it now price of $1. It's obviously erroneous because many coins of different value received the same minimal buy it now price. No court would enforce such a mistake. No person of integrity would expect Superior to live up to such a mistake.
Fine...all you do gooders think what you want...if it were YOU that were taken, different songs would be sung.
Tradedollarnut...my statements have come from a member of the bar in this state, and a VERY good attorney...I am not giving my opinion, I am giving the fact of an attorney....and trust me, the attorney on THIS end is rolling HER eyes at YOUR statements...hmmm, two lawyers rolling their eyes at your statements...why dont you ask YOUR attorney about this? I bet that may be the ONLY time he doesnt roll his eyes at you. Also, if you DONT have the legal beagle at your side, then dont go overboard on something you know NOTHING about.
Calgold...are you calling me a thief? I was not one of the bidders in those auctions, so I would appreciate you keeping comments like that and reserving them to those that deserved to be called a thief...
AndyNC2005...what honor did Superior show when they just refunded money and said it was a mistake, without offering ANY kind of perk for the mistake...especially when they were ADVISED that these were gobbled up to SAVE them a hassle???
Before I leave my last posting for this thread....this is a free market enterprise...IE capitalist country...the basis of buying and selling is setting a fair market price...mistake or not, they posted a price and those prices were met....if YOU wish to overpay, overpay...but most of those that are saying disagree with me are the ones looking for rips themselves...and its the TRUTH...I read this forum EVERY day and since I have been lurking here, have seen it time and again that members are proud of themselves for finding, oh, a certain VAM that isnt listed on the cert, yet pick it up for the cost of a common Morgan...do THOSE buyers email the seller and advise them that they have a, say $1,000 coin instead of an $80 coin? The answer is NO....they rip it, then come to this forum to brag about it. Those that agree with me, thank you, those that dont are nothing but hypocrites....PERIOD!
Oh, the principle of an expert seller being responsible for pricing errors is undoubtably correct.... but your expert attorney is [IMO] misapplying the principle. They didn't set their price in error ... they screwed up on the auction listing. There is a distinct difference and I welcome any other attorney to tell me I'm wrong and yours is right.
Superior does have expert knowledge and indeed does know how to price the coins. However, in listing the coins they erroneously put a buy it now price of $1. It's obviously erroneous because many coins of different value received the same minimal buy it now price. No court would enforce such a mistake. No person of integrity would expect Superior to live up to such a mistake.
It's always amusing to see non-lawyers speaking so confidently about what a court would do. Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue. I remember a case a few years ago where some airline accidentally sold tickets online for $1 or 1 cent (don't remember which) plus tax, by accident... do you think the airline got off the hook? Think again. Those people got their tickets.
If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior. Actions have consequences, and a company can't just say "oops, my bad, no harm/no foul, we're cancelling this after the fact." If you were bidding on a Superior action online at the very end and put down $5000 or $50000 instead of $500, do you think Superior would let you off the hook? Similarly, if you have a legal claim against Superior, you're certainly entitled to pursue it. That's why we have the law of contracts, not the law of "let's all do the right thing."
As for the bit about integrity... I agree. But that's up to each buyer. Frankly, if I won some of these BIN's and all I got from Superior was a snarky e-mail, I would sue them myself, even if just for the fun of watching them squirm.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
Secondrepublic...THIS is my last post on this thread now...THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU JUST SAID....remember, it is not MY opinion any longer...it was my WIFES opinion, who IS an attorney and is well educated in the ways of the judicial system...and you have stymied all these people willing to lie down and just take it...thats all I was getting at...its the PRINCIPLE...they SHOULDNT be allowed to get away with 'oops, sorry, our bad'.....thank you again Secondrepublic.....and thank you TAClough and all those that DIDNT flame me...those that did, read Secondrepublics reply AGAIN AND AGAIN...
<< <i>As for the bit about integrity... I agree. But that's up to each buyer. Frankly, if I won some of these BIN's and all I got from Superior was a snarky e-mail, I would sue them myself, even if just for the fun of watching them squirm. >>
its the PRINCIPLE...they SHOULDNT be allowed to get away with 'oops, sorry, our bad'.
I still do not see what they are getting away with. Making an honest mistake? Must every mistake in life be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Shakespeare was right (and no offense to the one who shares the bed with me ).
<< <i>I still do not see what they are getting away with. Making an honest mistake? Must every mistake in life be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Shakespeare was right (and no offense to the one who shares the bed with me ). >>
<< <i>Oh, the principle of an expert seller being responsible for pricing errors is undoubtably correct.... but your expert attorney is [IMO] misapplying the principle. They didn't set their price in error ... they screwed up on the auction listing. There is a distinct difference and I welcome any other attorney to tell me I'm wrong and yours is right. >>
I think you just heard it!
<< <i>No person of integrity would expect Superior to live up to such a mistake. >>
When talking about intergrity, maybe you and Superior are the once that need to look in the mirror. As I said before, I did not bid on any of the auctions in question, but considering Superior would hold someone else's feet to the fire if it were revised, I have no remorse for them if someone with intergrity wants to make Superior hold the line.
Interesting reading into the character, morals, values, integrity and honor of some people.
Notlogical ... if you were at a garage sale and saw a decent 1877 Indian Cent in a group of say 20 Indians priced at 25c each, what would you do?
I know what I would do. The first thing I would do is ask the seller if they were sure they wanted to sell them at that price. I'm not sure I would tell them what it was worth, but I would make sure they had asked for what they wanted. If they said yes, I'd probably pull out a five spot and take them all. I might buy a couple other things as well and kill a twenty ... but I'd also come back later with a gift. Something.
I once saw an eBay aution for a very nice PCGS AU58 1927-D Peace Dollar for what I think was either a 9.99 or 19.99 BuyItNow. I had to think about it for a couple minutes and then I hit the BuyItNow. I emailed the seller, asking him to provide payment instructions. He responded that he had made a mistake, but after a little hmmm'ng and haw'ng in his response, he closed with the fact that he would honor the sale. Quite honorable of him. I knew he had made a mistake. Although I actually wanted the coin, I told him he could back out, but I also asked him what he had meant to list it at. He told me, and after some further email exchange we agreed on about 75-80% of what he originally wanted. I would have let him back out.
One thing I've learned in my life is that when I stand in front of the mirror and it's just me and the reflection; if I can feel good about my character, my morals, my values, my integrity, and my honor ... when I know I did my best and did the right things to the best of my ability ... well, that's really all that matters.
It was a good question and I think you are already getting a good sense of what is right and what is wrong. Right isn't always logical, it just is.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
<< <i>Trying to understand this really is not logical.
It's not really about logic- it's about being able to do unto others as you would like the universe to treat you- allow others their mistakes because lord knows you'll make your own. Some people are just way too rigid about contracts, and looking for something for nothing.... >>
But that's why I asked my question about garage sales and stuff. If someone knows something is worth a lot more than what the person is selling it for and buys it and is proud about it...that isn't doing unto others the way you want to be treated. is it? I don't understand how it's ok one time and not the next.
Some people have said that getting something so cheap when you know what its worth is like stealing or something, but isn't it like stealing when you know how much something is worth at a garage sale and you buy it really cheap and don't tell the person how much it's worth?
To do whats right wouldn't it be right to give the person what it is worth even IF they don't ask for it? Isn't that doing to other people the way we want people to do to us too?
We are supposed to treat people the way we want to be treated all the time aren't we? Not just when one person knows how much something is worth and not when they don't.
That's what I don't get. >>
You have just identified a major difference between people. Some will go for the rip, others will not take advantage of another with their knowledge. The vast majority of coin collectors (and people, for that matter) fall into the first category. Being the contrarian that I am, I am a member of the latter group...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>I once saw an eBay aution for a very nice PCGS AU58 1927-D Peace Dollar for what I think was either a 9.99 or 19.99 BuyItNow. I had to think about it for a couple minutes and then I hit the BuyItNow. I emailed the seller, asking him to provide payment instructions. He responded that he had made a mistake, but after a little hmmm'ng and haw'ng in his response, he closed with the fact that he would honor the sale. Quite honorable of him. I knew he had made a mistake. Although I actually wanted the coin, I told him he could back out, but I also asked him what he had meant to list it at. He told me, and after some further email exchange we agreed on about 75-80% of what he originally wanted. I would have let him back out. >>
pursuitofliberty,
I like this example, your post is the best advice given to the original question both on the paragraph quoted and the one about the penney at the garage sale. I do like the way you allowed the seller to agree with the auction before you let him off of the hook on the 27-D peace dollar. That was my main problem with the way Superior handled the situation - just a screw you email.
Frankly, if I won some of these BIN's and all I got from Superior was a snarky e-mail, I would sue them myself, even if just for the fun of watching them squirm.
What's not to love about lawyers?
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
TDN, Thanks for taking a stand for what is right! It just makes me sick at my stomach to watch people try and use the law to exploit mistakes. As the saying goes... "Just because you can do it does not mean you should" I could walk over to someones grave and pee on it becuase I can, but I won't. I have respect and would never do that to anybody. If this goes to court, the people who take them to court are all flithy, dirty, low lying rats. Nothing but scum if you ask me. I will take the hardline on the side of whats morally right all the time, and not whats legally right. See thats the root of alot of wrong in this country. People fail to use commen sense, and want to push the law so far where it makes peolpe hate the law, and the lawyers enforcing it. If people would just learn to respect each other a bit more and use commen sense, this country would be much better off. I don't care if your feelings get hurt or not. Do what is morally right and not legeally right. You will sleep better at night.
As a final note.. I am shocked at the low level rats who have stepped up to the plate. Wait then again I am not, If there is a buck to be made, the rats will come out. They do every time.
Its always amusing to see a lawyer speak about a business transaction. As a businessman since 1971 and involved in lawsuits that end up in court half the attorneys lose their case. I've spent thousands of dollars over the years on so called legal advice and never one time had an attorney guarantee anything but a larger bill if it went to court. We never settled one suit and amazing how quickly the frivilous lawsuits stopped.
I've been to court when the bank made an error and when the company I owned made an error. In once case the judge tossed it and in the latter one we won. A mistake so obviously wrong to a buyer like this one wouldn't make it up the court steps assuming you could find a lawyer to file a suit in the first place.
A mistake so obviously wrong to a buyer like this one wouldn't make it up the court steps assuming you could find a lawyer to file a suit in the first place.
If you are willing to pay hourly, you will certainly have your choice of lawyers to file it. Contingency? No way!
Any guesses as to how many negative feedbacks will be generated over this nonsense?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
you want to block Petarded because he has a different viewpoint then you on last nights Superior auctions? Talk about being childest, this reminds me "of the proverbial five year old, “If I can’t have my way I’m going to take my toys and go home." I wish you would provide your eBay handle, with your attitude I'm not sure if I want to bid on any of your auctions (There is no need to block me, I will do it myself). >>
Actually, it's because I have a problem with the ethical viewpoint he displayed and I'd prefer not to deal with someone with that ethical viewpoint. If you'd like to avoid my auctions, my Ebay handle is jpcarney.
To petarded:
<Q>Tell me YOU havent made a RIP when you KNEW it Jcarney....go on, tell me..... </Q>
If you mean getting a coin for something less than market value, sure I've gotten...plenty of them. They were not the result of obvious mistakes (like a BIN of $1) on the part of the seller though.
There's an ethical problem here and I think everyone who is defending this type of action knows it. If you win an auction like this, just call it what it is.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all.
Since not - how about putting up or shutting up? Your wife is the source of your fantastic legal advice so your expenses won't be much. As I've said, I'll pay the first $5k of any judgement you get in court. Good luck!
Thanks for all the answers (I think ). I don't think I have ever gotten so many. I hope I didn't start a fight or something? Remember what Mr. Spock says to Dr. McCoy, "Your emotions will surely be your undoing."
Thanks OKbustchaser, MikeinFL and Pursuitofliberty. You really answered my question.
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics... ... "Fascinating, but not logical"
TDN....I WAS done until I read what you just posted....more nonsense.....coming from one that KNOWS everything, I guess I should not take you up on your offer, as you KNOW it cant be accomplished.....why on earth you have an attorney is beyond me......ALL BOW TO THE ALL KNOWING Tradedollarnut.......Oh, and if I DID have won just ONE coin in this debacle...trust me, you would be sending me that $5,000, but I am sure you would make a mistake in writing it out and make it out for $5.00, and that would just start another thread.....though I am not finished with these boards, I am NOW finished with this post....reading your drivel is more than one can take....Its the world according to you and anyone that disagrees with you is banished.....well, think what you will...dont get me wrong TDN...I have read many things you have written, and I have actually learned a thing or two and have appreciated some of the things you have written, but here, well, I guess we are here in THIS post to agree to disagree......
Oh, and to Notlogical...you didnt start anything....what you did was you uncovered an area that is really not discussed much in these forums...sure, a rip here and rip there, but nothing of this magnitude has been discussed. Bottom line is what you are seeing is what makes the U.S. the greatest country in the world....we have the freedom to discuss, disagree, accuse, belittle, threaten legal action, all with the knowledge that all we are going to do is tick someone off and not have to have worry about the secret police coming to our door in the middle of the night and whisking us off to parts unknown and never seeing our family again....it may seem like we are at each others throats...basically we are, but its something that makes us who we are....none of us here would get into a knock down, drag out fight over this (or would we???LOL)...its one of our basic rights (and one of the reasons this country was fought for with the blood and lives of so many men) playing out-freedom of speach...I respect each and every person disagreeing with me, I dont have to agree with them, but I DO have to respect their right to form and voice an opinion....I dont have to like it, as they dont have to like my opinion, but we certainly cant aattack each other for having them....for simply having had asked this question that started this whole thing, and seeing what has transpired because of it, you have learned a lesson of your own....never be afraid to ask ANY question...whether you agree or disagree with an answer to ANY question, remember first that you were LOOKING for an answer to a question...you left it open for people to not only say what you had HOPED to hear (ie, that your opinion was right) but what you may NOT want to have heard....
<< <i>this should be about honor and not law... >>
What honor is there in lowering oneself to the level of thief by trying to rip a coin for a $1?
CG >>
There is every bit as much honor as there would be in ripping an unknowing seller at a garage sale which is exactly what NotLogical was asking about in the OP. It makes not one bit of difference whether the seller offered a deal of this magnitude by making a mistake on the price or a seller offered a deal of of the same magnitude based on his lack of knowledge. To take advantage of him is wrong. Period. If it isn't wrong, then it isn't wrong for a dealer to take the same advantage of the probverbial little old widow lady. The results are EXACTLY THE SAME in all three instances. >>
Thanks! That's what I was wondering about.
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics... ... "Fascinating, but not logical"
I'll repeat, does anyone see the difference in the following two scenarios?
If a coin dealer goes to a garage sale and finds some coins that the owner wants to sell for $1. regardless if it is a wheat cent, a 1916-D mercury dime or a gold coin, great buy for the coin dealer.
If however, Joe Public walks into his Coin Establishment and shows him the very same coins above, I believe that it is the coin dealers responsibility to offer Joe Public a fair price to purchase the coins.
Now what about the unique holey coin originally owned by Lordmarcoven, traded to another poster who then sold it on eBAy for what I gather is probably a fraction of its worth. Is the buyer responsible for educating the seller of his research that the coin was probably an unlisted variety? I think not. However, if the buyer had a coin shop, and the seller took the coin to him for an offer, I feel it is the coin dealers responsibility in this situation to offer a fair dollar amount to purchase the coin as he has held himself out to be an "expert". In his place of business he should act ethically and not rip someone who was drawn to him because of his "expertise".
TDN....I WAS done until I read what you just posted....more nonsense.....coming from one that KNOWS everything, I guess I should not take you up on your offer, as you KNOW it cant be accomplished.....why on earth you have an attorney is beyond me......ALL BOW TO THE ALL KNOWING Tradedollarnut.......Oh, and if I DID have won just ONE coin in this debacle...trust me, you would be sending me that $5,000, but I am sure you would make a mistake in writing it out and make it out for $5.00, and that would just start another thread.....though I am not finished with these boards, I am NOW finished with this post....reading your drivel is more than one can take....Its the world according to you and anyone that disagrees with you is banished.....well, think what you will...dont get me wrong TDN...I have read many things you have written, and I have actually learned a thing or two and have appreciated some of the things you have written, but here, well, I guess we are here in THIS post to agree to disagree......
Tee hee. That's what I thought. All talk and bluster.
Edited: On second thought, there is no sense trying to talk sense to someone who has no sense. Besides, it is clear at this point that this Petard guy is merely baiting.
If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior
I doubt it. In fact, if you're a lawyer then why don't you take the case? I'll put up $5,000 of my own money toward the final judgement if you win.
Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all. >>
There are a lot of reasons why I personally wouldn't take a case like this... for one, it would probably need to be brought in California, and I don't practice in California. Second, the dollar amounts are just too small to make this worthwhile. But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim. But it certainly seems likely that they have "a" claim, since a contract appears to have been formed when they bought the coins. What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law? It seems at least plausible that there is a claim here. There was a case out of Japan recently where an investment bank rearranged the numbers in a stock sell order -- instead of selling one share for the market value of ~ $100,000, they put in an order to sell 100,000 shares at $1 each. (I don't have the link - this happened a few months ago). The result was losses in the hundreds of millions of dollars. There was no "do over" for them.
Let's say a coin dealer accidentally drops a $1000 coin into his $1 "junk box." You go into a coin store and buy a few pieces from the box, including the rare coin. Would the dealer be able to undo the purchase after the fact? If not, how is this any different than the Ebay purchase? Why does it legally matter that the coins are still in Superior's possession? Since you bought them, it seems you are the owner, and it's up to Superior to try to undo the sale contract.
I agree that morally, I don't think it's right to try to squeeze the coins out of them. But if you legally have a claim against them, the right approach is for them to say "we made a mistake, he's something in exchange" - give you a freebie coin of some kind, a store credit or auction credit, whatever. That's the advice I would give Superior if I represented them. When companies play hardball and refuse to give anything (like it appears Superior is doing), that's often when they get sued.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim.
Yes, I noticed that.
But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
Agreed - which is why I specifically stated 'judgement'.
What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law?
Anybody can have a claim. What I said is that they wouldn't win anything from a judge. The basis of my opinion is common sense - in my experience, a judge will look at what the intention was and who was harmed. No harm, no foul.
And although it was just my opinion, at least I backed my words up with action.... unlike somebody else we all know and love.
<< <i>I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim.
Yes, I noticed that.
But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
Agreed - which is why I specifically stated 'judgement'. >>
I'll be happy to sit down and do some free legal research just to satisfy you, once I get through the other two million things on my to-do list.
Your offer of $5000 isn't much of an offer, since the vast majority of cases settle, and it seems you'll only pay out once there's a verdict after a trial on the merits. Unless one of those BIN's was an 1804 silver dollar I don't think it would ever get to that.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>'ll be happy to sit down and do some free legal research just to satisfy you, once I get through the other two million things on my to-do list.
Actually, in about 10 minutes I was going to call my attorney and get a quicky opinion of how out to lunch I might be. >>
I don't think you're necessarily out to lunch. It's just that many, many legal issues don't have a clear answer. The facts of this case, with the Ebay connection, etc. make it hard to say for sure how a court would respond to this claim.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior
I doubt it. In fact, if you're a lawyer then why don't you take the case? I'll put up $5,000 of my own money toward the final judgement if you win.
Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all. >>
There are a lot of reasons why I personally wouldn't take a case like this... for one, it would probably need to be brought in California, and I don't practice in California. Second, the dollar amounts are just too small to make this worthwhile. But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim. But it certainly seems likely that they have "a" claim, since a contract appears to have been formed when they bought the coins. What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law? It seems at least plausible that there is a claim here. There was a case out of Japan recently where an investment bank rearranged the numbers in a stock sell order -- instead of selling one share for the market value of ~ $100,000, they put in an order to sell 100,000 shares at $1 each. (I don't have the link - this happened a few months ago). The result was losses in the hundreds of millions of dollars. There was no "do over" for them.
Let's say a coin dealer accidentally drops a $1000 coin into his $1 "junk box." You go into a coin store and buy a few pieces from the box, including the rare coin. Would the dealer be able to undo the purchase after the fact? If not, how is this any different than the Ebay purchase? Why does it legally matter that the coins are still in Superior's possession? Since you bought them, it seems you are the owner, and it's up to Superior to try to undo the sale contract.
I agree that morally, I don't think it's right to try to squeeze the coins out of them. But if you legally have a claim against them, the right approach is for them to say "we made a mistake, he's something in exchange" - give you a freebie coin of some kind, a store credit or auction credit, whatever. That's the advice I would give Superior if I represented them. When companies play hardball and refuse to give anything (like it appears Superior is doing), that's often when they get sued. >>
I appreciate SecondRepublic's perspective. Superior made the mistake and most bidders have been extremely generous with them. They are extremely fortunate. If they continue their "hardball" stance I see them as the "bad guys" in this story.
From my perspective of the stock market, typos are death. If I type 1000 shares instead of 100, I am holding the bag. There is no understanding person on the other end, saying "just give reverse the payment and all is well." For a dealer doing business on Ebay, in my opinion the same is true. It is one thing, if an individual makes a mistake, but a professional firm needs to be accountable. I'm sure they will check more carefully in the future, but they made the mistake not the buyers. In my opinion, Superior should have immediately offered some token of goodwill to all the bidders. Sure some people would still take a hard line, however, owning up to a mistake and offering a gift such as a free book or a discount on a future purchase is the very minimum I would expect from professionals.
His opinion is that there is no merit in claiming that Superior has to follow through on the sale. Since the error was made in listing the coins, not pricing them, then Superior's position as an expert seller is not a factor.
Of course, I told him this opinion was just for fun so he didn't get to charge me for it .... so it may be worth what I paid for it.
I talked to my wife's brother's daughter (her niece) who is attending Syracuse Law School and it from New Jersey and she giggled a whole bunch and suggested I quit staying in a Holiday Inn Express. Damn kids anyway. She also said she hasn't had a course in frivilous law suits yet so rendered no semi-professional opinion on the subject.
<< <i>I talked to my wife's brother's daughter (her niece) who is attending Syracuse Law School and it from New Jersey and she giggled a whole bunch and suggested I quit staying in a Holiday Inn Express. Damn kids anyway. She also said she hasn't had a course in frivilous law suits yet so rendered no semi-professional opinion on the subject. >>
Frivolous Lawsuits was my favorite class in law school. It almost made up for having to take a semester of Legal Ethics.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
His opinion is that there is no merit in claiming that Superior has to follow through on the sale. Since the error was made in listing the coins, not pricing them, then Superior's position as an expert seller is not a factor.
Of course, I told him this opinion was just for fun so he didn't get to charge me for it .... so it may be worth what I paid for it. >>
Let me get this straight... Superior really intended to list the coins at auction with a starting price of $1. Accidentally, they put in a "buy it now" of $1. The coins sell for $1... which is what they (theoretically) were willing to sell the coins for, since they were intending to start the auction at $1 anyway. Isn't this exactly a mistake in price?
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
You'd have to completely ignore market forces and other potential 'unseen forces' for that to be true.
Edited to add: Superior has 473 auctions currently on ebay ... and not a single one starts at $1 with no reserve. It appears that [other than live auctions] they utilize a Buy It Now with Best Offer format.
<<Coin Collectors are supposed to be "Gentlemen" and "Ladies". We play fair and don't take advantage of others mistakes. "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
How does "Cherrypicking" fit in with this utopian statement ? They would enforce their policy on a buyer's mistake, they need to own up for their own mistake. That fits perfectly with your "do unto others" statement ....
Comments
<< <i><< this should be about honor and not law... >>
What honor is there in lowering oneself to the level of thief by trying to rip a coin for a $1? >>
I really hate it when I agree with CalGold.
Russ, NCNE
I think the seller could come up with a way to say thanks for the covering of their A** by the members of this forum. They should al least give + feedback.
This is what happens when laymen get involved in law. Now I know why my attorney just rolls his eyes when I make silly statements like this.
Superior does have expert knowledge and indeed does know how to price the coins. However, in listing the coins they erroneously put a buy it now price of $1. It's obviously erroneous because many coins of different value received the same minimal buy it now price. No court would enforce such a mistake. No person of integrity would expect Superior to live up to such a mistake.
Sheesh.
Tradedollarnut...my statements have come from a member of the bar in this state, and a VERY good attorney...I am not giving my opinion, I am giving the fact of an attorney....and trust me, the attorney on THIS end is rolling HER eyes at YOUR statements...hmmm, two lawyers rolling their eyes at your statements...why dont you ask YOUR attorney about this? I bet that may be the ONLY time he doesnt roll his eyes at you. Also, if you DONT have the legal beagle at your side, then dont go overboard on something you know NOTHING about.
Calgold...are you calling me a thief? I was not one of the bidders in those auctions, so I would appreciate you keeping comments like that and reserving them to those that deserved to be called a thief...
AndyNC2005...what honor did Superior show when they just refunded money and said it was a mistake, without offering ANY kind of perk for the mistake...especially when they were ADVISED that these were gobbled up to SAVE them a hassle???
Before I leave my last posting for this thread....this is a free market enterprise...IE capitalist country...the basis of buying and selling is setting a fair market price...mistake or not, they posted a price and those prices were met....if YOU wish to overpay, overpay...but most of those that are saying disagree with me are the ones looking for rips themselves...and its the TRUTH...I read this forum EVERY day and since I have been lurking here, have seen it time and again that members are proud of themselves for finding, oh, a certain VAM that isnt listed on the cert, yet pick it up for the cost of a common Morgan...do THOSE buyers email the seller and advise them that they have a, say $1,000 coin instead of an $80 coin? The answer is NO....they rip it, then come to this forum to brag about it. Those that agree with me, thank you, those that dont are nothing but hypocrites....PERIOD!
It's always amusing to see non-lawyers speaking so confidently about what a court would do. Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue. I remember a case a few years ago where some airline accidentally sold tickets online for $1 or 1 cent (don't remember which) plus tax, by accident... do you think the airline got off the hook? Think again. Those people got their tickets.
If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior. Actions have consequences, and a company can't just say "oops, my bad, no harm/no foul, we're cancelling this after the fact." If you were bidding on a Superior action online at the very end and put down $5000 or $50000 instead of $500, do you think Superior would let you off the hook? Similarly, if you have a legal claim against Superior, you're certainly entitled to pursue it. That's why we have the law of contracts, not the law of "let's all do the right thing."
As for the bit about integrity... I agree. But that's up to each buyer. Frankly, if I won some of these BIN's and all I got from Superior was a snarky e-mail, I would sue them myself, even if just for the fun of watching them squirm.
<< <i>As for the bit about integrity... I agree. But that's up to each buyer. Frankly, if I won some of these BIN's and all I got from Superior was a snarky e-mail, I would sue them myself, even if just for the fun of watching them squirm. >>
Wow, no wonder attorney jokes are so popular.
I still do not see what they are getting away with. Making an honest mistake? Must every mistake in life be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Shakespeare was right (and no offense to the one who shares the bed with me
<< <i>I still do not see what they are getting away with. Making an honest mistake? Must every mistake in life be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Shakespeare was right (and no offense to the one who shares the bed with me
Thanks for fighting the good fight.
<< <i>Oh, the principle of an expert seller being responsible for pricing errors is undoubtably correct.... but your expert attorney is [IMO] misapplying the principle. They didn't set their price in error ... they screwed up on the auction listing. There is a distinct difference and I welcome any other attorney to tell me I'm wrong and yours is right. >>
I think you just heard it!
<< <i>No person of integrity would expect Superior to live up to such a mistake. >>
When talking about intergrity, maybe you and Superior are the once that need to look in the mirror. As I said before, I did not bid on any of the auctions in question, but considering Superior would hold someone else's feet to the fire if it were revised, I have no remorse for them if someone with intergrity wants to make Superior hold the line.
Tim
Notlogical ... if you were at a garage sale and saw a decent 1877 Indian Cent in a group of say 20 Indians priced at 25c each, what would you do?
I know what I would do. The first thing I would do is ask the seller if they were sure they wanted to sell them at that price. I'm not sure I would tell them what it was worth, but I would make sure they had asked for what they wanted. If they said yes, I'd probably pull out a five spot and take them all. I might buy a couple other things as well and kill a twenty ... but I'd also come back later with a gift. Something.
I once saw an eBay aution for a very nice PCGS AU58 1927-D Peace Dollar for what I think was either a 9.99 or 19.99 BuyItNow. I had to think about it for a couple minutes and then I hit the BuyItNow. I emailed the seller, asking him to provide payment instructions. He responded that he had made a mistake, but after a little hmmm'ng and haw'ng in his response, he closed with the fact that he would honor the sale. Quite honorable of him. I knew he had made a mistake. Although I actually wanted the coin, I told him he could back out, but I also asked him what he had meant to list it at. He told me, and after some further email exchange we agreed on about 75-80% of what he originally wanted. I would have let him back out.
One thing I've learned in my life is that when I stand in front of the mirror and it's just me and the reflection; if I can feel good about my character, my morals, my values, my integrity, and my honor ... when I know I did my best and did the right things to the best of my ability ... well, that's really all that matters.
It was a good question and I think you are already getting a good sense of what is right and what is wrong. Right isn't always logical, it just is.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>
<< <i>Trying to understand this really is not logical.
It's not really about logic- it's about being able to do unto others as you would like the universe to treat you- allow others their mistakes because lord knows you'll make your own. Some people are just way too rigid about contracts, and looking for something for nothing.... >>
But that's why I asked my question about garage sales and stuff. If someone knows something is worth a lot more than what the person is selling it for and buys it and is proud about it...that isn't doing unto others the way you want to be treated. is it? I don't understand how it's ok one time and not the next.
Some people have said that getting something so cheap when you know what its worth is like stealing or something, but isn't it like stealing when you know how much something is worth at a garage sale and you buy it really cheap and don't tell the person how much it's worth?
To do whats right wouldn't it be right to give the person what it is worth even IF they don't ask for it? Isn't that doing to other people the way we want people to do to us too?
We are supposed to treat people the way we want to be treated all the time aren't we? Not just when one person knows how much something is worth and not when they don't.
That's what I don't get. >>
You have just identified a major difference between people. Some will go for the rip, others will not take advantage of another with their knowledge. The vast majority of coin collectors (and people, for that matter) fall into the first category. Being the contrarian that I am, I am a member of the latter group...Mike
You are an idiot to write stupid tripe such as the above.
If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior
I doubt it. In fact, if you're a lawyer then why don't you take the case? I'll put up $5,000 of my own money toward the final judgement if you win.
<< <i>I once saw an eBay aution for a very nice PCGS AU58 1927-D Peace Dollar for what I think was either a 9.99 or 19.99 BuyItNow. I had to think about it for a couple minutes and then I hit the BuyItNow. I emailed the seller, asking him to provide payment instructions. He responded that he had made a mistake, but after a little hmmm'ng and haw'ng in his response, he closed with the fact that he would honor the sale. Quite honorable of him. I knew he had made a mistake. Although I actually wanted the coin, I told him he could back out, but I also asked him what he had meant to list it at. He told me, and after some further email exchange we agreed on about 75-80% of what he originally wanted. I would have let him back out. >>
pursuitofliberty,
I like this example, your post is the best advice given to the original question both on the paragraph quoted and the one about the penney at the garage sale. I do like the way you allowed the seller to agree with the auction before you let him off of the hook on the 27-D peace dollar. That was my main problem with the way Superior handled the situation - just a screw you email.
Tim
<< <i>You are an idiot to write stupid tripe such as the above. >>
I will bow to your first hand knowlegde of what an idiot is.
What is legal is not always ethical....
What is ethical is very seldom illegal....
Stick with the ethical, and you'll have a happier life.
What's not to love about lawyers?
<< <i>One thing to remember when the law and lawyers start getting mentioned:
What is legal is not always ethical....
What is ethical is very seldom illegal....
Stick with the ethical, and you'll have a happier life. >>
Superbly stated....Mike
<< <i>
<< <i>You are an idiot to write stupid tripe such as the above. >>
I will bow to your first hand knowlegde of what an idiot is. >>
As a final note.. I am shocked at the low level rats who have stepped up to the plate. Wait then again I am not, If there is a buck to be made, the rats will come out. They do every time.
<< <i>We shall see. $5,000 should get them scurrying out of their holes.... >>
My level of respect for you went through the roof. Very stand up guy. Thanks! Not that I really matter to you., but Thanks for taking a stand.
I've been to court when the bank made an error and when the company I owned made an error. In once case the judge tossed it and in the latter one we won. A mistake so obviously wrong to a buyer like this one wouldn't make it up the court steps assuming you could find a lawyer to file a suit in the first place.
If you are willing to pay hourly, you will certainly have your choice of lawyers to file it. Contingency? No way!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Jcarney,
you want to block Petarded because he has a different viewpoint then you on last nights Superior auctions? Talk about being childest, this reminds me "of the proverbial five year old, “If I can’t have my way I’m going to take my toys and go home." I wish you would provide your eBay handle, with your attitude I'm not sure if I want to bid on any of your auctions (There is no need to block me, I will do it myself).
>>
Actually, it's because I have a problem with the ethical viewpoint he displayed and I'd prefer not to deal with someone with that ethical viewpoint. If you'd like to avoid my auctions, my Ebay handle is jpcarney.
To petarded:
<Q>Tell me YOU havent made a RIP when you KNEW it Jcarney....go on, tell me..... </Q>
If you mean getting a coin for something less than market value, sure I've gotten...plenty of them. They were not the result of obvious mistakes (like a BIN of $1) on the part of the seller though.
There's an ethical problem here and I think everyone who is defending this type of action knows it. If you win an auction like this, just call it what it is.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all.
Since not - how about putting up or shutting up? Your wife is the source of your fantastic legal advice so your expenses won't be much. As I've said, I'll pay the first $5k of any judgement you get in court. Good luck!
Thanks OKbustchaser, MikeinFL and Pursuitofliberty. You really answered my question.
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
Oh, and to Notlogical...you didnt start anything....what you did was you uncovered an area that is really not discussed much in these forums...sure, a rip here and rip there, but nothing of this magnitude has been discussed. Bottom line is what you are seeing is what makes the U.S. the greatest country in the world....we have the freedom to discuss, disagree, accuse, belittle, threaten legal action, all with the knowledge that all we are going to do is tick someone off and not have to have worry about the secret police coming to our door in the middle of the night and whisking us off to parts unknown and never seeing our family again....it may seem like we are at each others throats...basically we are, but its something that makes us who we are....none of us here would get into a knock down, drag out fight over this (or would we???LOL)...its one of our basic rights (and one of the reasons this country was fought for with the blood and lives of so many men) playing out-freedom of speach...I respect each and every person disagreeing with me, I dont have to agree with them, but I DO have to respect their right to form and voice an opinion....I dont have to like it, as they dont have to like my opinion, but we certainly cant aattack each other for having them....for simply having had asked this question that started this whole thing, and seeing what has transpired because of it, you have learned a lesson of your own....never be afraid to ask ANY question...whether you agree or disagree with an answer to ANY question, remember first that you were LOOKING for an answer to a question...you left it open for people to not only say what you had HOPED to hear (ie, that your opinion was right) but what you may NOT want to have heard....
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>this should be about honor and not law... >>
What honor is there in lowering oneself to the level of thief by trying to rip a coin for a $1?
CG >>
There is every bit as much honor as there would be in ripping an unknowing seller at a garage sale which is exactly what NotLogical was asking about in the OP. It makes not one bit of difference whether the seller offered a deal of this magnitude by making a mistake on the price or a seller offered a deal of of the same magnitude based on his lack of knowledge. To take advantage of him is wrong. Period. If it isn't wrong, then it isn't wrong for a dealer to take the same advantage of the probverbial little old widow lady. The results are EXACTLY THE SAME in all three instances. >>
Thanks! That's what I was wondering about.
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
If a coin dealer goes to a garage sale and finds some coins that the owner wants to sell for $1. regardless if it is a wheat cent, a 1916-D mercury dime or a gold coin, great buy for the coin dealer.
If however, Joe Public walks into his Coin Establishment and shows him the very same coins above, I believe that it is the coin dealers responsibility to offer Joe Public a fair price to purchase the coins.
Now what about the unique holey coin originally owned by Lordmarcoven, traded to another poster who then sold it on eBAy for what I gather is probably a fraction of its worth. Is the buyer responsible for educating the seller of his research that the coin was probably an unlisted variety? I think not. However, if the buyer had a coin shop, and the seller took the coin to him for an offer, I feel it is the coin dealers responsibility in this situation to offer a fair dollar amount to purchase the coin as he has held himself out to be an "expert". In his place of business he should act ethically and not rip someone who was drawn to him because of his "expertise".
Joe. IMO.
Tee hee. That's what I thought. All talk and bluster.
CG
I doubt it. In fact, if you're a lawyer then why don't you take the case? I'll put up $5,000 of my own money toward the final judgement if you win.
Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all. >>
There are a lot of reasons why I personally wouldn't take a case like this... for one, it would probably need to be brought in California, and I don't practice in California. Second, the dollar amounts are just too small to make this worthwhile. But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim. But it certainly seems likely that they have "a" claim, since a contract appears to have been formed when they bought the coins. What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law? It seems at least plausible that there is a claim here. There was a case out of Japan recently where an investment bank rearranged the numbers in a stock sell order -- instead of selling one share for the market value of ~ $100,000, they put in an order to sell 100,000 shares at $1 each. (I don't have the link - this happened a few months ago). The result was losses in the hundreds of millions of dollars. There was no "do over" for them.
Let's say a coin dealer accidentally drops a $1000 coin into his $1 "junk box." You go into a coin store and buy a few pieces from the box, including the rare coin. Would the dealer be able to undo the purchase after the fact? If not, how is this any different than the Ebay purchase? Why does it legally matter that the coins are still in Superior's possession? Since you bought them, it seems you are the owner, and it's up to Superior to try to undo the sale contract.
I agree that morally, I don't think it's right to try to squeeze the coins out of them. But if you legally have a claim against them, the right approach is for them to say "we made a mistake, he's something in exchange" - give you a freebie coin of some kind, a store credit or auction credit, whatever. That's the advice I would give Superior if I represented them. When companies play hardball and refuse to give anything (like it appears Superior is doing), that's often when they get sued.
Yes, I noticed that.
But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
Agreed - which is why I specifically stated 'judgement'.
What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law?
Anybody can have a claim. What I said is that they wouldn't win anything from a judge. The basis of my opinion is common sense - in my experience, a judge will look at what the intention was and who was harmed. No harm, no foul.
And although it was just my opinion, at least I backed my words up with action.... unlike somebody else we all know and love.
<< <i>I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim.
Yes, I noticed that.
But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
Agreed - which is why I specifically stated 'judgement'. >>
I'll be happy to sit down and do some free legal research just to satisfy you, once I get through the other two million things on my to-do list.
Your offer of $5000 isn't much of an offer, since the vast majority of cases settle, and it seems you'll only pay out once there's a verdict after a trial on the merits. Unless one of those BIN's was an 1804 silver dollar I don't think it would ever get to that.
Actually, in about 10 minutes I was going to call my attorney and get a quicky opinion of how out to lunch I might be.
<< <i>'ll be happy to sit down and do some free legal research just to satisfy you, once I get through the other two million things on my to-do list.
Actually, in about 10 minutes I was going to call my attorney and get a quicky opinion of how out to lunch I might be. >>
I don't think you're necessarily out to lunch. It's just that many, many legal issues don't have a clear answer. The facts of this case, with the Ebay connection, etc. make it hard to say for sure how a court would respond to this claim.
<< <i>If a lawyer took this case and sued Superior, there's a good chance he would either get the coins or get a decent settlement from Superior
I doubt it. In fact, if you're a lawyer then why don't you take the case? I'll put up $5,000 of my own money toward the final judgement if you win.
Speaking as an attorney, I'm wouldn't be surprised at all if the buyers had a legal claim they could pursue
Yup - secondrepublic is an attorney all right. This is classic legal-speak where they say smoething that sounds impressive but when you break it down it really doesn't say anything at all. >>
There are a lot of reasons why I personally wouldn't take a case like this... for one, it would probably need to be brought in California, and I don't practice in California. Second, the dollar amounts are just too small to make this worthwhile. But if someone brought suit, Superior would also need to hire a lawyer, which costs money, and that creates an incentive to settle. If Superior has insurance that covers these kinds of losses, the insurer would handle the defense would probably settle it. Superior would pay the deductible (part or all of which would come out of your pocket, since you offered them $5000) and the rest would come from the insurer.
I haven't said definitively that I think the buyers have a good claim. But it certainly seems likely that they have "a" claim, since a contract appears to have been formed when they bought the coins. What I've said all along is that I don't understand why you are so confident that they have no claim. What is the basis of your knowledge of this area of the law? It seems at least plausible that there is a claim here. There was a case out of Japan recently where an investment bank rearranged the numbers in a stock sell order -- instead of selling one share for the market value of ~ $100,000, they put in an order to sell 100,000 shares at $1 each. (I don't have the link - this happened a few months ago). The result was losses in the hundreds of millions of dollars. There was no "do over" for them.
Let's say a coin dealer accidentally drops a $1000 coin into his $1 "junk box." You go into a coin store and buy a few pieces from the box, including the rare coin. Would the dealer be able to undo the purchase after the fact? If not, how is this any different than the Ebay purchase? Why does it legally matter that the coins are still in Superior's possession? Since you bought them, it seems you are the owner, and it's up to Superior to try to undo the sale contract.
I agree that morally, I don't think it's right to try to squeeze the coins out of them. But if you legally have a claim against them, the right approach is for them to say "we made a mistake, he's something in exchange" - give you a freebie coin of some kind, a store credit or auction credit, whatever. That's the advice I would give Superior if I represented them. When companies play hardball and refuse to give anything (like it appears Superior is doing), that's often when they get sued. >>
I appreciate SecondRepublic's perspective. Superior made the mistake and most bidders have been extremely generous with them. They are extremely fortunate. If they continue their "hardball" stance I see them as the "bad guys" in this story.
From my perspective of the stock market, typos are death. If I type 1000 shares instead of 100, I am holding the bag. There is no understanding person on the other end, saying "just give reverse the payment and all is well." For a dealer doing business on Ebay, in my opinion the same is true. It is one thing, if an individual makes a mistake, but a professional firm needs to be accountable. I'm sure they will check more carefully in the future, but they made the mistake not the buyers. In my opinion, Superior should have immediately offered some token of goodwill to all the bidders. Sure some people would still take a hard line, however, owning up to a mistake and offering a gift such as a free book or a discount on a future purchase is the very minimum I would expect from professionals.
His opinion is that there is no merit in claiming that Superior has to follow through on the sale. Since the error was made in listing the coins, not pricing them, then Superior's position as an expert seller is not a factor.
Of course, I told him this opinion was just for fun so he didn't get to charge me for it .... so it may be worth what I paid for it.
<< <i>I talked to my wife's brother's daughter (her niece) who is attending Syracuse Law School and it from New Jersey and she giggled a whole bunch and suggested I quit staying in a Holiday Inn Express. Damn kids anyway. She also said she hasn't had a course in frivilous law suits yet so rendered no semi-professional opinion on the subject.
Frivolous Lawsuits was my favorite class in law school. It almost made up for having to take a semester of Legal Ethics.
<< <i>Results of the phone call:
His opinion is that there is no merit in claiming that Superior has to follow through on the sale. Since the error was made in listing the coins, not pricing them, then Superior's position as an expert seller is not a factor.
Of course, I told him this opinion was just for fun so he didn't get to charge me for it .... so it may be worth what I paid for it.
Let me get this straight... Superior really intended to list the coins at auction with a starting price of $1. Accidentally, they put in a "buy it now" of $1. The coins sell for $1... which is what they (theoretically) were willing to sell the coins for, since they were intending to start the auction at $1 anyway. Isn't this exactly a mistake in price?
Edited to add: Superior has 473 auctions currently on ebay ... and not a single one starts at $1 with no reserve. It appears that [other than live auctions] they utilize a Buy It Now with Best Offer format.
<<Coin Collectors are supposed to be "Gentlemen" and "Ladies". We play fair and don't take advantage of others mistakes. "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
How does "Cherrypicking" fit in with this utopian statement ? They would enforce their policy on a buyer's mistake, they need to own up for their own mistake. That fits perfectly with your "do unto others" statement ....
JMHO