Also from WESPNEX: possible 1982 Lincoln struck thru a machine screw (PICS ARE BACK)

seanq

At least that iswhat I think this is. The dealer whosold this to me had the coin marked as "Struck on Scrap" because the coin is slightly underweight (2.7g vs 3.1g for a normal copper cent).

I had one dealer tell me the coin was genuine, and another said it was damaged. Take a look at the pictures below and tell me what you think, after the thread gets some replies I'll explain why I think the coin is good.

Here is a close-up of the ridges to the left of GOD:

Finally, a close-up of the E in ONE:

Sean Reynolds

LALASD4

The reverse looks sharp opposite the struck thru so I think it is good, but I am not sure what it struck thru?

seanq

TTT for any one else who wants to play "CSI: Philadelphia".


Sean Reynolds

bonkrood

I think its good, I think the reverse would be more damaged if it was done after mint.

jonathanb

I agree that it looks 'good', or at least not damaged outside the mint.

I don't think it was struck on scrap. If it was struck through a screw, I think the extra thickness of the screw effectively pinched off the leftmost portion of the planchet. I've seen similar 'strike clips' in some cases. They're not real common for normal off-center strikes, but this one is unusual to start with so maybe.

I don't know if this was struck through a screw. It might be, but I don't know that there's enough detail to tell. I'd feel a lot better if somone could find with a screw that matched the pattern of the area without any screw pattern and the area with a screw pattern.

I know that there is some way to send coins to the mint and have them comment on them. Maybe this would be a good one to try that with? The folks on the mint might be able to come up with a definite answer, "Yes, the die presses used in 1982 did have a screw that might have caused this pattern, and by the way here is a picture."

I wonder if Fred Weinberg would comment on how to send something to the mint for review, and whether it was likely to be productive in this case?

jonathan

kranky

I've thought about this one on and off today, and still have no idea! How thin is the coin in the base of that long groove?

seanq

kranky: the coin is almost foil thin under the indent, in the first picture you can even see a couple of small holes where you can see through the planchet.

jonathan: your comment about the screw pinching off the edge of the planchet fits into my theory of how the coin was minted. I believe that a screw or threaded part was already under the dies when the planchet was fed, preventing the planchet from seating completely under the dies and resulting inthe off-center strike. I picture the leftmost edge of the planchet resting against and almost under the side of the screw. When the dies struck, the screw would have flattened under them and expanded into the planchet. I show the E in ONE to illustrate the metal flow at the edge of the indent, if a round object like a screw were being pressed down into the flat planchet that is exactly where I would expect the least downward force and the most metal flow.

I have access to a digital caliper at work, I'll try to measure the pitch of the threads indented in the coin and match them up to a common commercial bolt. Forum member 'errormaven' reviewed these same pics over on his error coin group and pronounced the coin "99.5% genuine", I'm planning to send him the coin to convince the last 0.5% of him.


Sean Reynolds

JRocco

Nice coin Sean. Talk about an interesting piece. Mike will have fun with that one.

TommyType

Question: Do you think they coin could have possibly made it out of the mint through "normal" channels, or was it more likely walked out by someone on the inside?

seanq

Before sending this coin along to Mike Diamond, I finally took a pair of calipers to it. The distance between the ridges at the top of the struck-through area is consistent from ridge to ridge, approximately 0.75mm each. A quick Google search tells me that corresponds to a 6mm fine pitch screw or bolt.

I don't know if anyone inside or outside the Mint can tell me if screws of that size were used on the equipment that struck cents in 1982, but the fact that the indent matched up with a known standard metric bolt size should count as another indicator that the coin is legitimate.

I'd still love to hear from a Mike B or a Fred W on this coin, they've both been around long enough that they could remember if such an error is precedented?


Sean Reynolds

FredWeinberg

Sean, I don't recall ever seeing a
coin like this.......I always like to see
things this unusual in person to verify, Error
but based on the scans, it does appear
genuine, and what you say it is...............

Let us know what your follow-up research says......

Fred

majorbigtime

<< <i>

Let us know what your follow-up research says......

Fred >>




My research sez why are you using my icon??

CaptHenway

I like it. You gonna be in Atlanta?
Tom D.
Harlan Berk's table

Byers

Sean- it looks real but I've never seen an error like this one.

seanq

<< <i>Sean- it looks real but I've never seen an error like this one. >>




Wow... so between you and Fred, in your 60+ years of combined experience, you haven't seen a strike-thru like this? Now I'm really intrigued.

I'm going to send the coin off to Mike Diamond tomorrow, after his diagnosis I'd be happy to send it along to Fred, Mike, or Tom for another opinion. Either Mike or I will be sure to update this thread again.

Thanks to all who shared their opinions.


Sean Reynolds

clackamas

That is cool!

DieVarieties

Looks good to me.

NumisOxide

Neat looking!

mozeppa

<< <i>

<< <i>

Let us know what your follow-up research says......

Fred >>




My research sez why are you using my icon?? >>




better look at the dates you both joined.

seanq

I heard back from Mike Diamond ('errormaven') last night, I'm sure he won't mind if I post his conclusions here:



<< <i>Hi Sean.

The coin is here. It's 100% genuine and exactly what you said it was. It was struck through a machine screw that had threads confined to the tip. The area of the coin to the left of the screw impression seems to have been pinched off / torn off as the screw was mashed into the planchet.
>>




Next step will probably be to write it up for an ErrorScope article, I think the working title will be 'One Screwed-Up Cent'.


Sean Reynolds

goose3

<< <i>

Next step will probably be to write it up for an ErrorScope article, I think the working title will be 'One Screwed-Up Cent'.


Sean Reynolds >>




cool....or how about...

"A screw for a cent"

DickyBetz

Cha-ching!

Wolf359

Wow, what a great find! Congradulations

ms70

Congrats on an interesting coin!

LALASD4

Now the next challenge would be to find the screw, the Lincoln struck on screw.

seanq

<< <i>Now the next challenge would be to find the screw, the Lincoln struck on screw. >>



If the Mint is anything like the manufacturing environments I deal with in my job, the Lincoln struck on a screw is sitting proudly on the desk of a quality inspector, and it is brought out every time s/he is reviewing GMP standards with a new hire.


Sean Reynolds

Craton

congrats sean!

CaptHenway

8/an 7



OK, that line was my cat walking on the keyboard.



Can anybody repost the pictures from the OP?

seanq

Tom I do not have them on my server any more but I'm sure I can get them off my back up drive in the next day or two. Can I ask why you wanted to see them again?



Sean Reynolds

ricko

I would like to see them also, since I somehow missed this thread ten years ago.

Cheers, RickO

oih82w8

Some of us were not here 10 years ago. Yes, please post the image(s).

seanq

Now I know why you're asking

Still trying to find the pics....

Sean Reynolds

seanq

Pictures are now appearing in the first post again.


Sean Reynolds

CaptHenway

Thanks for the repost. Excellent proof that STUFF HAPPENS!!!!!

seanq

I no longer own this coin, but I really wish I did. Based on what the dime struck on a nail is bid to right now, I basically gave this coin away.

The first person I sold it to submitted it to PCGS with none of the documentation I had provided to back up the attribution, and it was immediately returned to him bodybagged as "damaged" without having ever been forwarded to Fred Weinberg. Because it had failed to certify, he sent it back for a refund. I then sold it again through the BST, I think the second time I got $350 for it. I do not remember to whom it sold, nor do I know if that person ever tried submitting it to a TPG.

Sean Reynolds