Does PCGS cut some slack on cleaned rare coins?

keoj

I've seen some tidbits here on the boards questioning whether PCGS gives some additional benefit of the doubt on very rare coins that have lightly cleaned. Do a majority of people feel this or this just another wacky theory.

keoj

ER

It's not theory. It's fact.

kranky

The rarer the coin, the more allowances are made with respect to cleaning.

fc

it just depends on what YOU consider cleaning.

for example, a lightly dipped half eagle that removed some dirt
will get slabbed.

a whizzed example without luster and obvious lines from the
cleaning will BB.

discoloration in the fields from a past cleaning or was it
circulation? will slab or not slab depending on if it rains.

the list goes on, where the coin is market acceptable due
to being rare and better off slabbed but yet lightly cleaned.

RYK

Absofrickinlutely.

HoshiShoju

I have an 1894 S MS63 (sadly the prize piece of my young collection) Morgan that is definately cleaned. You can see some slight hairlines where it was improperly cleaned, but it is still slabbed. I don't think that it even necessarily has to "rare" as much as a nicer coni from the series.

cointagious

PCGS has slabbed polished/wiped, tooled and coins with graffiti...in the humble opinion of those viewing the coins. Rarity will get them into a holder.

MFH

I'm sure what all of you are saying very well may be true to a certain extent, but you can't prove that by me.

Last year I submitted an ANACS AU 55 ( NOT "net graded" ) 1892-O Micro O Barber Half Dollar - which was originally from Peter Shireman/ James Bennett Pryor's collection.

Although the coin was submitted on a 5 Day Express submission, the coin was kept for a month, and returned in its ANACS holder without any explanation. I wasn't too happy about the fact that it took so long ( I feared they had misplaced the coin ) and felt that I had thrown away the grading fee of $50.00 ( plus $21.00 shipping costs ).

When the coin was initially offered in the Pryor sale, Q. David Bowers had graded it AU 58 on the obverse and MS 60 with proof-like field on the reverse. It is a very special coin, but because it wouldn't cross over to PCGS, I sold it when a PCGS AU 55 was offered to me.

This coin should have crossed easily - I even asked that it cross into a 53 grade, thinking that it'd upgrade on a future resubmission.

Thanks for listening...just had to vent...

greghansen

The rarer the coin, the more allowances are made with respect to cleaning.

I agree. It's all part of the third party grading services 'market acceptable' guidepost. The rarer the coin...the more the market is willing to accept in terms of cleaning and other problems. Gobrecht Dollars are an excellent example of this; where many wiped and cleaned coins can be detected at arms length, yet they are consistently slabbed and graded. I'm sure there are many other examples in other series as well. I really don't have a problem with it but I'm sure to some it seems hypocritical.

BillJones

Early U.S. coins (1792 to 1807) get more slack for cleaning that any other period. The reason is that if every early coin that has been cleaned were body bagged the remaining population would be very small.

Among the early coins, gold seems to get the most slack. In recent years I’ve seen many early gold coins, which I would consider damaged due to cleaning, in slabs. In fact I’ve seen a “before and after” where the owner was rewarded for cleaning a rare early gold coin by getting an upgrade from AU-50 to AU-58. With this coins, such an upgrade is of great value.

Early silver coins are next when it comes to getting slack. I have a 1796 dollar that I thought might get a body bag because it had been cleaned. I graded EF-40 and thought that it was acceptable but was not sure it would grade. Not only did it grade, but I got an AU-50 to boot!

The services are really hard and inconsistent with early copper. I’ve seen pieces with nice surfaces and eye appeal that got body bagged. On the other hand I’ve seen pieces that were badly marked or which had corrosion spots lifted in holders. Getting early copper in a slab is a bear. And some of the stuff that is in slabs is overgraded or has problems.

Wolf359

Well, they've been really rough on rare vams. I've had a few bodybags on lightly cleaned/dipped
coins that could have been silently net graded and still would be top pops in their holders.

keoj

Thanks everyone, I'm in the midst of submitting a recognized variety by PCGS (you know....one of those with a 9XXXX) that only has an existing pop in all grades of 1. In all honestly, the coin has been wiped in the past but has toned over most of the obvious marks. This is NOT an ugly coin and resides in a gold PCI holder. I requested that it cross at any grade but I was curious as to what type of shot that it had.

keoj

BillJones

Silver dollars are a whole different issue. Many date a mint combinations are very common in Mint State, which makes a cleaned coin unacceptable to many collectors, even if it is a rare VAM. If the date and mint combination is common, the fact that a coin happens to be a rare VAM will not save it from a BB, at least the way things stand now.

BillJones

<< <i>Thanks everyone, I'm in the midst of submitting a recognized variety by PCGS (you know....one of those with a 9XXXX) that only has an existing pop in all grades of 1. In all honestly, the coin has been wiped in the past but has toned over most of the obvious marks. This is NOT an ugly coin and resides in a gold PCI holder. I requested that it cross at any grade but I was curious as to what type of shot that it had.

keoj >>



The services really should maintain the standards. Where should they draw the line? If they start net grading damaged coins, after a while whizzed coins will get into holders, and that would defeat on of the major safeguards that prompted the whole slabbing concept.