Name an overrated coin BOOK

RYK

For years, I have heard how terrific the Akers' United States Gold Coins: An Analysis of Auction Records series is and how important these are for gold coin collectors. I finally bought the series (fortunately, got a good deal), and I am so very disappointed with them. First of all, they were published in 1979, so they are terribly out-of-date. Second, there is very little information about the coins; just the dry data and statistics related to their auction appearances. Third, some have been superceded by more contemporary books. I recognize and respect Mr. Akers' expertise and the amount of sweat that went into this compilation, but as a readable and interesting resource in 2006, they just do not do it for me.

Runners Up (for similar reasons):

Breen's Encyclopedia
Greer's Liberty Seated Dimes

IMO, a good coin book should be interesting, preferably with a little history (both US and numismatic), and readable. The information should be up-to-date and with high quality illustrations. Original research is definitely a plus.

Coin Finder

Brownings book on early bust Quarters and ....gulp.......Overton

Regulated

The HK book (sorry all you So-Called Dollar buffs).
The Doering book on Cal Gold.

Coinosaurus

The Akers books were undoubtedly important at the time. I agree, they are less so now, esp. when you go on the Heritage site and much more up to date market info for free. I wouldn't get the Akers set unless I was doing a lot of research on gold pedigrees. And, because I am such a cheap *&%#@#! I would more likely call up the ANA and ask them to copy the pages of interest.

gyocomgd

The Red Book, without question. I grab each new edition thirsty for something new, and it never changes enough to suit me. The pricing is incomplete, innacurate and of course, obsolete before it even hits book stores. The feature stories they just cut and paste from the previous year. It's like they aren't even trying. I know it's a bible to some people, but I don't get it.

Also overrated for its utility value. It's heavy and bulky. Give me a stack of 3-month old Greysheets any day.

Coxe

With no disrespect whatsoever, books by Dave Bowers. They may be good reads but there are always more informative ones out there for collectors and investors.

Breen's encyclopedia, though remarkably comprehensive, lacks too much detail in its brevity throughout and time has not been favorable on Walter's hipshot assessments of rarities in many cases. His half cent book, however, is excellent. I would recommend it to anyone looking for Cohen's book as a better starting point.

Krause's telephone directory sized guides are good for attributions of world coins (etc), but the valuations are not reliable and are impossibly useless if you are dealing with certified uncirculated rarities.

gyocomgd

<< <i>With no disrespect whatsoever, books by Dave Bowers. >>



He's written like 50 or so, right? Maybe what you're saying is, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Coxe

No, I am saying that a library lacking his books would not be missing information that is better available form other sources. He is a good writer, authoritative, and certainly a giant of the generation. We are talking about overrated. He wrote a red book on Morgan dollars, for instance. I have and like it, but I doubt I will ever refer to it for data or insights with regard to collecting and investing in the series.

gyocomgd

Okay.

PerryHall

Akers gold books were very important at the time of issue since he used auction data to assess the relative rarity of all US gold regular issues. His study identified many rare dates that were originally thought to be only scarce and vice versa. Naturally the discovery of several hoards renders much of this data to be obsolete and the pop reports have superceded this auction data.

FullStepJeffs

<< <i>The Red Book, without question. I grab each new edition thirsty for something new, and it never changes enough to suit me. The pricing is incomplete, innacurate and of course, obsolete before it even hits book stores. The feature stories they just cut and paste from the previous year. It's like they aren't even trying. I know it's a bible to some people, but I don't get it.

Also overrated for its utility value. It's heavy and bulky. Give me a stack of 3-month old Greysheets any day. >>






Steve

Barry

Bowers' "Top One Hundred Coins" or something close to that title.

For me, coins produced as political favors and clandestinely by crooked Mint employees have no appeal.

seateddime

the Redbook

for a long time I wish I could sell at Redbook, now I wish I could buy at Redbook.

Prices are way out of date for a few years now.

Shamika

The first copy of the Redbook that you get can be very informative. As a grammer school student in the 70's, I probably read my 1976 edition cover to cover a dozen times.

However, subsequent editions are really a waste of money - especially with auction archives available on the internet today.

AuldFartte

Practically anything by Breen, IMO.

Louis

Penny Whimsy.

WTCG

Any book written by a certain individual who is supposedly a "dealer" from the Northeast who recently had a hair transplant done. I can't think of a single respected dealer who thinks of this person in a positive light.

goose3

<< <i>Any book written by a certain individual who is supposedly a "dealer" from the Northeast who recently had a hair transplant done. I can't think of a single respected dealer who thinks of this person in a positive light. >>




who is this???? and do you have a picture???

ram1946

It has to be the Red Book. Publication lag time makes it outdated before it hits the shelf. The only new mintage numbers are the most recent coinage. If it's a must have for some, one every five or six years should do it.

I also think the CDN, while technically not a book, is overrated. It's similar to the Red Book in that the prices reflected in each addition generally do not mesh up with market prices, since buyers typically expect "xxx back deals" from the published pricing. In most cases it seems to act as a top end barometer rather than a market indicator.

Regulated

I think the hair transplant was a good decision.

DDR

"The Crime of 1873" was rather dull.

Cameonut

Coin Chemistry by Weimar White - basically a compilation of mediocre articles.
The Blue Book
The Red Book

slumlord98

The 4th edition of Overton definitely bites. Lower quality images, full of errors. Cut out the pages of 1794 O.111, 1806 O.128 and 129, and 1807 O.115 and insert those into your 3rd edition, and you will have a better book. What a shame! It could have (should have) been so much more!

291fifth

The Kam Awash book on Liberty Seated Dimes. Population estimates were generally much too low.

Oldnewbie

"The State Coinage of Connecticut" by Henry C. Miller, Durst reprint.

The plates in this 1981 reprint are useless. I've just won a reprint dated 1962 on eBay. I've heard it's better.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it was never highly rated, so it's not overrated.

SamByrd

the ngc grading guide

ChangeInHistory

<< <i>Bowers' "Top One Hundred Coins" or something close to that title.

For me, coins produced as political favors and clandestinely by crooked Mint employees have no appeal. >>





It sort of comes across as a reference book, but it's really a book for non-collectors. I like the book overall but I prefer books and the stories about coins you have a chance of owning!

numonebuyer

I thought it was just me, but I have to agree with the Redbook. For a serious collector, this book is just a waste of my time.

I have a pretty large library, and I have two Redbooks. I never use them.

With regard to comments on books by Q. David Bowers, his recent publishings on Morgan dollars are well written, and I have read both editions. However, I use the Enclyclopedia by Van Allen & Mallis much more often.

Myqqy

Any book written by a certain individual who is supposedly a "dealer" from the Northeast who recently had a hair transplant done. I can't think of a single respected dealer who thinks of this person in a positive light.

Seeing as how I'm not connected numismatically, I need a name!!

RotatedRainbows

I do not think the hair transplant worked out as well as expected so they prefer to remain anonymous.

Fairlaneman

The Red Book is useless. Its good to see that other people agree. When people recommend it to new collectors a shiver runs up my spine.

Ken

DaveG

(pardon my rant, but. . .)

Yes, of course, all of you are right, those other coin books are really out of date and really lame, especially compared to the really impressive articles and books that so many of you have written.


(with apologies to the very few members of this Board who have actually written and published anything, like coppercoins, Conder101, Cameron Keifer and any others I might have missed.)

messydesk

Hafta agree with the Red Book once you've been into collecting for a little while and have "outgrown" it, and it's totally unnecessary to buy it each year, but for what it costs, it does seem useful for people getting started in the hobby or just wanting some basic information about a given series. It also has a bibliography for each coin type so that you can go get better information elsewhere.

Breen Encyclopedia can be neat to look at, but has mistakes and and can only serve as a starting point for further research or information gathering.

Highfill Silver Dollar Encyclopedia. Technically, this could only be severely overrated if it were rated highly to begin with, so I'll just say it's slightly overrated.

Calypso

Hmmm, I don't know of any particular overrated coin books. Obsolete certainly but I view these as historical footprints in the shifting sands showing me the path through the past. They let me know the state of the hobby circa 1975 or 1931 or ??? I enjoy picking up my old copies of Valentine, Overton, Breen/Gillio/Swiatek, QDB (ie Garrett era), Winter/Cutler or even David Sear to see where we've been. I'm provided a clearer vision of the long view. Breen numbers are still in use, take a look at current ANR autions.
Actually- the two coffee table books by Guth and Garrett were disappointing, lots of marketing hype. Not to mention the unfortunate reference to the 1804 "Capped Bust" silver dollar in the 2nd ed. of 100 Greatest.


RYK said "IMO, a good coin book should be interesting, preferably with a little history (both US and numismatic), and readable. The information should be up-to-date and with high quality illustrations. Original research is definitely a plus."

gyocomgd

<< <i>Coin Chemistry by Weimar White - basically a compilation of mediocre articles.
The Blue Book
The Red Book >>



Good call on that one. Very disappointing.

numonebuyer

I have both editions of Looking Through Lincoln Cents Chronology of a Series, by Coppercoins and I don't even collect pennies. Both of these editions are awesome. I wish there was an equivalent written for Morgan silver dollars.

numonebuyer

And he even signed both editions for me.

BillJones

The Comprehensive Encyclopedia of United States Liberty Seated Quarters by Larry Briggs was a major disappointment to me. Too criptic, and it is hard to believe that there were not more varieties that what he listed.

RYK

It is not lost on me that when I asked for three good books for newbies on the same evening as the OP in his thread, I got the usual eight or ten responses and the thread got buried. However, if you ask for a negative around here (overrated book, rip-off dealer, worst coin shop experience, etc.), the thread can go on forever.

I disagree with those who put the Redbook on their "overrated" list. As a youngster, I spent countless hours with my Redbook. It was the only coin book I owned. It provides a survey of the major Federal and non-Federal US issues, some grading points, some history, and sone pricing information. For a newbie or a quick and handy superficial reference, it cannot be beat, but certainly it is the last word on nothing. You get a lot for your $15.

BillJones

Some of the books that listed here, like Breen's Encyclopedia, deserve credit.

The sad part is a bunch of people here confuse the sins of the man with the good work that he did for the hobby. It's a shame, but that's way they operate.

I also cannot figure out the the negative comments about the Red Book. That source was more date in one place for a lower price than any other coin book on the market. If you don't believe me, just take a look at some the stuff that Barns and Noble has on their shelves in the hobby section of the store. If you think that The Blank Book of U.S. Coins is better than The Red Book, you've get rocks in your head.

MrHalfDime

Wow! Some of you guys are really tough. I would venture to say that many/most of the mentioned books were very pertinent and relavent at the time they were published, and if anything, they have simply become outdated. Rarity ratings will change with time, but that does not mean that authors should not be willing to publish, nor willing to estimate rarity ratings at the time of publication. To say that the earlier editions of Overton (I cannot comment on the fourth edition, as I do not have it yet, so I will defer to Slumlord on that one), the Browning book on quarters, Kam Ahwash's book on Seated Dimes or Brian Greer's book on Seated dimes were "overrated" is unnecessarily harsh. At least they were willing to put it out there, to publish something for the benefit of the hobby. An updated book on the early Federal quarters has been in the works for several years now, but in the interim the Browning book will suffice. It was a pretty darn good effort, in my opinion, with very few errors and only a couple of additions since 1927. The Ahwash book on Seated dimes was eclipsed by the Greer book on the same subject, which have both now been obsoleted by the Fortin E-book, but those earlier efforts at least gave afficianados of the series something to refer to, and should not be needlessly panned.

Perhaps the best comment I have read in this thread belongs to DaveG:

"Yes, of course, all of you are right, those other coin books are really out of date and really lame, especially compared to the really impressive articles and books that so many of you have written."

Who among us would even consider writing a comprehensive encyclopedia on the entire United States coin series, and who but Walter Breen could have done such a commendable job. To be sure, many of his rarity ratings are now obsolete, some even laughable, but he based them upon his own personal (and considerable) experience, and predictably, over time, they have changed. But don't condemn the entire work for that one shortcoming.

Like most others who have commented here, I have one or two old copies of the Red Book on my library shelf, and have not seen the need to update it with a new copy in perhaps 15 years. But I still refer to it ocassionally, to look up the planchet weight of a Flowing Hair half dime, or to check the mintage of 1848-O half dimes. Where else would you go for that kind of information? I cannot imagine any numismatic researcher or writer without a copy of the venerable Red Book at easy arm's length.

If the wording of the question were "Which numismatic reference books have become obsolete?", or "Which numismatic reference books need to be updated?" I could more easily agree with some of the comments here. But even then, I would be reluctant to criticise the work of others unless I felt that I could do a better job myself.

RYK

If the wording of the question were "Which numismatic reference books have become obsolete?", or "Which numismatic reference books need to be updated?" I could more easily agree with some of the comments here. But even then, I would be reluctant to criticise the work of others unless I felt that I could do a better job myself.

I agree to an extent. More than one person has in the past few years recommended the Akers series to me as a "must have" for a gold coin collector, and this is what inspired the thread. In the OP, I did give props to Mr. Akers for the accomplishment (1979), but in 2006, it is far from "must have" status.

I think that it is acceptable to criticize the works of others in this context, so long as it is not personal, and it might save others from buying books that they may find useless. If someone had posted my comments about the Akers series, I would have never purchased it. Despite the fact that I cannot produce/direct/script a major motion picture like King Kong, it is certainly fair for me to say that I did not like it.

Coin Finder

Our Cameron wrote a book?? I missed it. For me to be critical of say the Bust Quarter book by Browning was in part because almost every time I quoted it dealers and collectors scoffed at me or told me that the book was wrong. How would they know? In the early days when trying to quote rarity I thought I was doing the right homework. One collector said there was an update in the works. Could I have done better? I do not know.

I also remember vividly showing a Bust Half to a very famous numismatist that I thought was very rare after pouring over Overton. He said it was a R-3 and that Overton was flat out wrong. It was wrong when it was published!

Well, I would rather use a different book sometimes rather than one that was incorrect. I used Bolender and Reivers Book on early dollars which had mistakes but they were great books and still are And dealers and collectors respect them. I dont know if it is all as simple to say "well you never wrote a book therefore you cannot complain" It doesnt work that way in my book

Scioto

<< <i>the ngc grading guide >>



Right On!

Spiral-bound waste of money!

edited to add my Post-It note summation of this waste of a good tree:

Where's the Beef?
A "Grading Guide" without a mention
of grades below MS60?
Pop reports from 2003? Already suspect
due to the "crack-out" game!
Self-promoting B.S. and nothing more!

carl

It is a real shame but it is for real the Red Book as the most overrated of all coin books. It is the most recommended, the most visable at coin stores and coin shows. Of course everyone should realize the prices are just guides so not for that reason. It used to be just about the only coin book and was full of information pertenant to any collector. This last edition, 2006, is a mess. I've contacted Whitman Publishing three times with lists of errors in that Edition. I USED to use that book pretty much exclusively for just all infomation on coins but lately I'm afraid to open this edition and look at anything. Not only are the prices out of wack with everyday prices, but some of the prices are just a joke. Even the quantity of coins minted, which Mint made what, missing information, asterisk with out meaning, etc., etc., etc.
It should be the book for all beginners, but now has become something to use as a paper weight.

Dismeguy

In the internet age with 1000's of coins available for purchase at our fingertips, it is so easy to forget the difficulties that the early researchers faced. There were no computers for note taking and data management nor access to huge propulations of coins to observe for varieties and relative rarity. The numismatic community is much better informed today than at any point in history. Yes, current understanding and knowledge make the earlier books obsolete, but these earlier books are the basis for the collecting passion that many of us exhibit today.

Frankly I could not believe that anyone would be critical of Greer's Seated Dime book...... Both Ahwash's Encyclopedia and Greer's effort were the springboard for my Seated Dime E-book. During their day, these references sources were very informative and the best efforts of the authors to educate the numismatic community.

Dismeguy

mozin

I make it a point to buy the REDBOOK regularly, about every 5 years. Well worth the price.

The new 4th edition of UNITED STATES EARLY HALF DOLLAR DIE VARIETIES by Don Parsley, not Al Overton, is a book I cannot recommend. It sits on my shelf while I use my much more accurate 3rd edition with better pictures, and better paper. I will continue to use my 3rd edition, along with correct Bust Half Nut Club published rarity values from 2004.

BHNC rarity values published 2004

billboat

Bowers, given his prolific output, has some dogs, but also has some excellent ones. I use his "Buyers Guide to Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars" frequently. I've also spent many hours happily going through his "American Coin Treasures and Hoards". The Overton reference (3rd Ed) has also been very helpful to me---I wouldn't be without it. Ed Souder's "Bust Half Fever" is also a great read. I also use the Red Book for basic coin weights, diameters, compositions and mintages----but would agree you don't need a copy every year. Over-rated would include almost all of the coffee table volumes, like "100 Great Coins(?)" although pretty to look at don't have much useful information. Another excellent text is "Crime of 1873"--but you must understand that in addition to being a collector I'm also a history buff--so the historical context of coinage is very important to me. I'm still looking for the Wiley-Bugert (?) text on Seated Liberty Halves.

morgannut2

I disagree--the Redbook is a cheap quick source especially for kids, likewise the Breen book serves that function for more seasoned collectors-- A specialist book that has never gotten old--and been built upon-- is the Van Allen & Mallas Morgan/Peace Encyclopedia. By comparison the Bowers Morgan was very disappointing, although the history was interesting.

DaveG

RYK, if you had asked me (or any of the gold collectors) for opinions about Akers before you bought the books, we would have been happy to tell you about them. Besides, I thought you were really after the Kagin book (about which you have not opined) and considering the bargain you got on the Akers books, I don't think you have much to complain about!

I think there's a world of difference between knowledgeably criticizing a book and just complaining that a book is "lousy". Certainly, no book is perfect and perhaps Bob Smith wold have written a better book than Joe Jones, but the fact of the matter is that Joe Jones took the time and trouble to do it. Of course rarity ratings, etc. change over time, which is why organizations like the BHNC, JRCS and LSCC frequently ask their members to update their rarity ratings.

To simply complain that a book is "lousy", on the other hand, strikes me as Monday Morning Quarterbacking - if the other guy is so "lousy", let's see you do it better.

As for the Red Book, it's a great book, filled with indespensible information, but I haven't ever heard anyone say that you should buy a new one every year!

And, while Cameron hasn't written a book, he has put together the sample slab website, which is essentially the same thing, to me.

Frankly, I don't look favorably on a dealer who feels free to badmouth published information: the author is using his knowledge to benefit the entire hobby, the dealer is either making an empty allegation or keeping his specialized knowledge to himself, neither of which is worthy of respect, IMHO.

earlycoins1com

After reading this thread, I have 2 thoughts:

1. I have long told newbies to the hobby that if you can retain 80% of the information contained in the Redbook (and I'm not talking about mintages or price estimates here), you will be counted among the top 2% of the most knowledgeable numismatists alive, on US numismatics. Sometimes something is so familiar that we stop seeing what is right in front of us.

2. Most coin books are written because the author has a passion, and wants to share it. They are labors of love. If you looked at how many hours it takes, what it costs, and how pitiful the financial returns are for even very "successful" coin books, you would wonder why anyone would bother to do it at all.

That we have as many coin books written out there for us to enjoy (both the great books and the mediocre books) is a testament to the passion this hobby can engender in some people.

Rgds,
Dave W.