YEE HAWWWW!!!! Nailed two upgrades on designation review!!!!!!!
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
So, I'm looking at my stash of Birthmark Die Kennedys and thinking to myself, "self, PCGS really deserves a second chance on a couple of these". I picked out five of them for the $10 designation review service; one MS67CAM and four MS66CAM. I figured two of the MS66CAMs should be DCAMs. The MS67CAM is also a DCAM, but it's overgraded by a point so I knew it wouldn't get bumped up.
They upgraded two of them to Deep Cameo, AND it was exactly the two I expected!!!!!
Here are the two that upgraded:
That one I bought as an MS66CAM from an eBay seller who was lucky enough to come in to three of them. Paid strong money to get it, but not stupid money.
Now that one has an interesting story! It originally showed up on Teletrade as a hazed over MS64CAM. Seller bought it and several other coins back. About a month later it showed up with the same PCGS cert number, but was now a haze-free MS65CAM. I paid stupid money to get it - about three times market value for a 65CAM.
I cracked the coin out, submitted it and it came back MS66CAM. Now, on designation review, it became an MS66DCAM.
WOO HOO!!!
Russ, NCNE
They upgraded two of them to Deep Cameo, AND it was exactly the two I expected!!!!!
Here are the two that upgraded:
That one I bought as an MS66CAM from an eBay seller who was lucky enough to come in to three of them. Paid strong money to get it, but not stupid money.
Now that one has an interesting story! It originally showed up on Teletrade as a hazed over MS64CAM. Seller bought it and several other coins back. About a month later it showed up with the same PCGS cert number, but was now a haze-free MS65CAM. I paid stupid money to get it - about three times market value for a 65CAM.
I cracked the coin out, submitted it and it came back MS66CAM. Now, on designation review, it became an MS66DCAM.
WOO HOO!!!
Russ, NCNE
0
Comments
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I do think though that TDN comments on another thread is valid here though:
Quoted: We're just not talking the same language. I don't disagree that there are condition rarities in the moderns. It's just that it's hard for me to fathom an arbitrary condition rarity when there are so many coins not even worth slabbing right under that arbitrary line.
In other words, if the line for CAM and DCAM were to shift slightly [for instance, the distance between NGC and PCGS standards in many instances], all of a sudden the coin simply wouldn't be worth the time to look for. Or if the line between the top pop grade and the undergrade were to shift slightly [again, the distance between NGC and PCGS standards in many instances], all of a sudden the coin is barely even worth slabbing.
When arbitrary third party standards determine the difference between pocket change and collectibility ... my mind rebels. <IMG src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border=0> <B>
</B>
I hope it is more than 3x market value of a 65CAM
Random Collector
www.marksmedals.com
I fell prey to it as well and have a few coins that I spent MUCH more (birth year for myself and my son) than I would have without the registry.
I find myself thinking, almost weekly, if I should sell of the coins that cost more than ~$30 or so, and replace them with the lower priced, but still nice looking, equivalents. Since only 1 of them cost me more than $500, and most were $100 or below, I currently consider it just like going to a casino, but from my keyboard instead.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Now that one has an interesting story! It originally showed up on Teletrade as a hazed over MS64CAM. Seller bought it and several other coins back. About a month later it showed up with the same PCGS cert number, but was now a haze-free MS65CAM. I paid stupid money to get it - about three times market value for a 65CAM.
I cracked the coin out, submitted it and it came back MS66CAM. Now, on designation review, it became an MS66DCAM. >>
Gotta love consistancy.
<< <i>The problem with TDN's observation is that the difference in cam/dcam is fairly straight-forward. The coins aren't arbitrary, sometimes the services are. The collector who pays a large premium for a dcam is supposed to know what he's buying, just like the guy buying the classic coin as PQ and paying a premium. If you can't tell the difference, the holder won't save you. JMO >>
That's tough to buy into when here we have four coins that were each PCGS CAMEO and upon a review two changed. The experts look at hundreds of CAMEO Kennedies and either they got it wrong the first time on this mini-hoard, or they got it wrong the second time. Either way (and, I'm of the opinion they got it wrong the first time- they both look DCAM to me too...) they were off by 50% on this small batch.
That just plain doesn't sound like these are straight-forward.
<< <i>What is market value on a 66DCAM?
I hope it is more than 3x market value of a 65CAM. >>
Well, I can say that what it cost me went from stupid money to a bargain.
<< <i>Gotta love consistancy. >>
It gets even better. Another forum member bought one of the other coins. That one was an MS64CAM. He cracked it out, submitted it, and now it's also an MS66DCAM.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Gotta love consistancy. >>
It gets even better. Another forum member bought one of the other coins. That one was an MS64CAM. He cracked it out, submitted it, and now it's also an MS66DCAM.
DHeath: Nope. Doesn't sound straight-forward at all!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>OK Pat, let me rephrase, if I buy a coin at Dcam money, it has to be all there. It either is or it isn't. I've spent $300+ on 65-67 SMS sets because of the halves, and the TPG's didn't get to vote.
And that's you. If only more Modern collectors were as informed as you and could spot what apparently PCGS can't- at least not on a regular basis.
Now, a bigger question:
When it comes to SMS CAMEO Kennedys is PCGS simply incompetent or just lazy?
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Perhaps they should spend 10 seconds grading the coin, instead of 5 seconds?
Freak
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Free Trial
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Show us the reverses. . .
(I will tell you that SMS 1965 in 67 should have garnered the STAR.)
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>these days, upgrades are almost an extinct species. >>
Very true. The last upgrade I got was an 1871 Two Cent Piece - and it was a quarterly freebie.
Russ, NCNE
Anyways, Congrats on the Upgrades. You called it just like this in PM. Good Eye. Now, do they goto Ebay or into the private stash?
TorinoCobra71
<< <i>Hey Russ is this one of those Kennedys from the Tirade Thread "Grading Room, THIS IS A DCAM!!!!!?" >>
No, that thread was about cameos, and two of those are now in cameo holders.
<< <i>Now, do they goto Ebay or into the private stash? >>
The Stash™.
Russ, NCNE
Now, PCGS, let's see.
The coin was a 64CAM, goes to a 65CAM, then a 66CAM and finally a 66DCAM?
Explain that consistency and accuracy in grading and make me feel good about how you grade.
I need to move that over to Hall's Q&A thread and ask him.
RR
<< <i>The coin was a 64CAM, goes to a 65CAM, then a 66CAM and finally a 66DCAM? >>
In fairness, as I noted, when it was a 64CAM it was hazed over.
I also think it's possible that a designation review may get closer scrutiny than the initial grading process. By virtue of the submission type it's saying to the graders that perhaps the designation is incorrect, so it may cause them to look more closely. In addition, in this case I provided two solid MS66CAMs for comparison purposes. The two that upgraded were clearly and dramatically stronger. In a sea of cameos, they'd stick out like a neon sign.
In any event, I'm pleased that PCGS took a look and said "hey, we blew these so let's fix it."
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>id give a you suck but im not authorized ! >>
What does one have to do get "authorized????"
TorinoCobra71
By sheer coincidence, my designation review submission was posted today - and my 66cam Birthmark Kennedy upgraded to a 66dcam where it belongs. Here is the sub
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY COUNTRY GRADE
3 0410xxxx 1967 50C SMS USA MS66DC
Date Received: 03/08/2006
Date Shipped: 03/23/2006
The bad news is that the two no-brainer dcam Franklins didn't upgrade.
But I'll be happy with the BM upgrade for now.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>...the difference in cam/dcam is fairly straight-forward. >>
I have to strongly disagree with the above statement. PCGS is just as wishy -washy on the CAM/DCAM issue as they are with the numerical grades.
Russ, were the two that became DCAMS in green tag holders or blue? I am betting on green.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Russ, were the two that became DCAMS in green tag holders or blue? I am betting on green. >>
Blue, and both were graded within the last six months.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>This thread does wonders to reassure me that these coins are actually rare and that the underpops will never overflow into the pops. >>
a) Nowhere did I say these coins are rare. b) These grades are the "underpops". c) Did you have a point other than another ignorance-based lame attack on moderns?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>This thread does wonders to reassure me that these coins are actually rare and that the underpops will never overflow into the pops.
Like there are no overgraded classics! Geeze!!
Nope.
Kinda funny how every time someone points smoething out about all the 'cha-ching' threads, they're always ignorant.
<< <i>Did you have a point other than another ignorance-based lame attack on moderns?
Nope.
Kinda funny how every time someone points smoething out about all the 'cha-ching' threads, they're always ignorant. >>
Do you see "cha-ching" anywhere in any of my posts in this thread? I know it's hard for you collectors of million dollar rarities to believe, but there are those of us who can enjoy coins that don't sell for the cost of a penthouse in Trump Towers.
Russ, NCNE
Getting kind of desperate to pull out the old class card, aren't we?
I just find it amusing that in one thread smoe of us are attacked for saying collect what you want but 'watch out for those pops' and then the very same people doing the attacking start 'cha-ching' threads about how they got coins upgraded or designated upon review. Now what are the odds that only those certain members of the Forum have coins that are gonna go up or be designated?
<< <i>Getting kind of desperate to pull out the old class card, aren't we? >>
It's a natural response to extreme arrogance.
<< <i>I just find it amusing that in one thread smoe of us are attacked for saying collect what you want but 'watch out for those pops' >>
The only thing I "attack" are stupid statements.
<< <i>and then the very same people doing the attacking start 'cha-ching' threads about how they got coins upgraded or designated upon review. >>
Still trying to find where "cha-ching" was posted in this thread by anybody other than you.
Russ, NCNE
The fact you don't see the irony is just as amusing.
ps - please point to any phrase in any of my posts in this thread that exhibit 'extreme arrogance'.
<< <i>The fact you don't see the irony is just as amusing. >>
Translation:
I can't think of anything to post that would actually make sense.
Russ, NCNE
Put up or shut up, Russ.
Translation:
I can't think of anything to post that would actually make sense.
YEE HAWWWW!!!! Nailed two upgrades on designation review!!!!!!!
Translation: cha-ching!
<< <i>please point to any phrase in any of my posts in this thread that exhibit 'extreme arrogance'.
Put up or shut up, Russ. >>
You're kidding, right? Your entire approach in this thread reeks of your arrogance. In fact, the stench has been growing exponentially ever since your partner decided to switch from attacking wannabes to attacking moderns. You look down from your lofty perch in the rarified air of million dollar coins and post in this thread out of nothing more than your compulsion to attack moderns.
You have completely lost touch with the real collecting world where the average collector can actually find joy in coins that don't cost six figures or more.
Russ, NCNE
Admitttedly Russ did not post "cha-ching", but that was my knee-jerk reaction upon reading the thread title. After further consideration, I know that Russ probably enjoys the grading game and hunting for undergraded material nearly as much as he loves the Obscene Profit™ (though he will never admit it). To prove this point, Russ will send me both coins as a gift. Argument over.
You have no clue.... perhaps you are projecting feelings of inadequacy? The coins I'm collecting these days are hardly what you suppose.
I don't like being put into the position of 'bashing moderns' as I truly do believe that people should collect what they want ... and in fact am not doing that as much as I'm bashing those that blindly defend them in face of mounting evidence that the words of caution may be right.
ps - it's also amusing that you get to interpret my feelings rather than my words, but then staunchly state 'show me where I said cha-ching'.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
very nice Cha-Chings!!!!!!
congrats, great upgrades for the personal stash......
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter