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Do you think this is a counterfeit?

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  • CoxeCoxe Posts: 11,139 ✭
    I am no error expert, but would expect the rim to be a little more problematic if the plancent had been jamming around to produce such an error. Interesting anyway. Would love to hear a specialist's analysis.
    Select Rarities -- DMPLs and VAMs
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  • DickyBetzDickyBetz Posts: 3,825
    No. Looks real to me.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow... that is a wierd one... it looks like a quadruple struck/ double clipped planchet specimen.


  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks real to me. Nice.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll quote Glen Burger:

    There's a lot of 1964 ... multistrikes (esp. cents and nickels) which are counterfeit. Look for raised spots and for mismatch of obverse and reverse dies.

    I presume that what he means by "mismatch" is that the obverse and reverse should be perfectly aligned with each other for each strike. So it would be helpful if we could see the reverse of this coin, upside down, next to a picture of the obverse.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm no expert on error coins, and I seldom deal in them, but the shape of this piece bothers me. If it were struck three times on a U.S. government press, I would think that it would be more distended and less "round." Also the edge devices are too well struck. Usually the planchet thins out at the edges which causes the design devices to fade. On this piece they are sharp to the edge.

    For those reasons I would question it. Also as Andy has written I'd need to see the reverse too.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought it looked real. I guess I was influenced by the pic which shows what appears to be an NGC or ANACS slab.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It could be in a PCI holder. If that's the case, you opinion should not be influenced by the white plastic around the coin.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭
    it is in an anacs holder. the detail on the cent def. look authentic. the reverse bothers me though. looks to be struck once.

    image
    Nick
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    very neat.
  • 777777 Posts: 1,056
    I bet it comes back slabbed and is worth the $$ image
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭
    it is already slabbed by anacs
    Nick
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    I'd believe ANACS over any opinion I'd have image
    image
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  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,054 ✭✭✭
    Looks Legit From My Angle.......

    TorinoCobra71

    image
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭
    what concerns me is the fact that the reverse was only struck with the die once
    Nick
  • errormavenerrormaven Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭
    It looks perfectly genuine to me.

    -- Mike Diamond
    Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe an old double strike which was then saddle-struck with a brockage reverse. Nice coin.
  • bonkroodbonkrood Posts: 796 ✭✭✭
    image

    Looks good to me. image
    image Steam Power
  • PriestPriest Posts: 270 ✭✭
    Thats nice, that you can read the date.
    D.A. Priest
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    imageimage

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    oh kaaaaay.
    very cool coin.
    i,d love to own that,or anything close to that.
    imageimage
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what concerns me is the fact that the reverse was only struck with the die once

    Good observation. Why don't we have multiple impressions on the reverse?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭


    << <i>what concerns me is the fact that the reverse was only struck with the die once

    Good observation. Why don't we have multiple impressions on the reverse? >>



    image
    Nick
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>what concerns me is the fact that the reverse was only struck with the die once

    Good observation. Why don't we have multiple impressions on the reverse? >>



    The coin had to be out of the collar to be struck multiple times on the obverse. Otherwise the three impressions of Lincoln would not be at "the three corners." That being the case, the reverse die could not come in contact with the coin again during additional strikes. As a result the features were mashed in distended on a flat surface, not the reverse die.

    Having now seen the reverse I believe that this item is a genuine error.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • OffMetalOffMetal Posts: 1,684 ✭
    No doubt authentic. A very nice error!
    -Ben T. * Collector of Errors! * Proud member of the CUFYNA
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When I was with ANACS (late 70s-early 80s) one of the other authenticators showed me a picture of one of these cloverleaf 1964 cents (there are several of them out there) and told me they started out as genuine cents but were then given three false off-center strikes from a counterfeit obverse die while resting atop blank pieces of metal. I do not believe that I ever saw one in person so as to form my own opinion, but I have no reason to doubt what I was told.
    Tom DeLorey
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    Nice luster. Excellent color. What's the grade?

    The tale of possible counterfeit die is interesting. Maybe it was out of the experience of the people at ANACS...certainly there are some coins that befuddle them, that they just do the best they can with.
    image
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This one is real. There are fake 1964 3x and 4x known, but this specific coin is real.
    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ss350camaross350camaro Posts: 4,529
    Here's one that was posted back in September of 2004
    Amazing how similar it is to the one at the beginning of this thread image

    I would say that they are the same coin.

    image
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭
    that is the same coin!
    Nick
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭


    << <i>Nice luster. Excellent color. What's the grade?

    The tale of possible counterfeit die is interesting. Maybe it was out of the experience of the people at ANACS...certainly there are some coins that befuddle them, that they just do the best they can with. >>



    65 RB. A lot of nice color highlights on the coin, although, i don't think they really add to the price tag
    Nick
  • mcmximcmxi Posts: 890 ✭
    What is something like that worth?
    If I was half as smart as I am dumb Iwould be a genious
  • chabot510chabot510 Posts: 1,291 ✭


    << <i>What is something like that worth? >>



    i am not too sure. i know what i paid for it and i thought it was very reasonable for the type of error it is. I think it will be going to auction to see what error collectors think it is worth.
    Nick

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