I'm insulting your opinion--I would tell you in person that it is ludicrous that you think that GAI and Pro are equal. You are saying you would tell that to Baker and Rocchi?
<< <i>I spoke with Mike Baker and he says that Steve Rocchi deserves 90% of the credit for the idea and the implementation of the PSA Set Registry. >>
I thought this was incorrect when I first read it. I was pretty sure David Hall was responsible for most if not the entire set registry concept when it first started but I wasn't positive so I'm glad BJ could clarify. I guess Baker just made a mistake or forgot himself.
Well, since Pro is regarded as what is used to slab altered cards, I am sure Mike would ask you why you think he grades so many altered cards and what is your justification for it.
There has been tons of documentation of people trimming cards themselves and submitting them to Pro and getting Pro 9s.
Since the two were equal in your eyes, I think the person who is widely thought of as the best grader in the hobby would get a kick out of hearing all your evidence.
I'd like to set the record straight on the genesis of the Registry concept.
The Registry idea was first conceived by David Hall around 1996 or 1997 first for PCGS and then for PSA. The first Registry booklet was published in 1998.
In 2000, Brent Gutekunst, who was the president of the Internet division of Collectors Universe at the time, gave me the idea of taking the program online.
Working in stealth mode with our IT department, because I feared the project might be squashed, I implemented the online program, first for PCGS. I launched it in February, 2001. It was an instant success. My boss, David Hall, loved it and told me to get the PSA Registry online as soon as possible. I launched PSA's Registry in June of the same year. I launched the PSE Registry in December, 2003. This year you'll see the launch of the Currency Registry as well as expansions of both the PSA and PCGS Registries.
David Hall deserves the credit for the Registry concept. To the best my of knowledge, Steve Rocchi had nothing to do with its concept and he certainly had no involvement whatsoever with its implementation. >>
To back up what BJ said. I believe David Hall mad a similar post a couple of years back when this question came up. If someone is good at searches they may be able to find it .
I have also been around long enough to remember that 1420sports was very supportive of giving GAI a chance when they first came on the scene. He discovered what not to like about them on his own . I do not believe is just waving the PSA banner without some experience dealing with GAI
There's a tendency to think the hobby world knowledge revolves around activities on this message board and various others...Jim Crandell's comments about all 3 being a success is absolutely "on spot" imo.
There is a positive correlation with the recent onslaught of complaints against GAI (I've made some myself) in the last several months on various boards and their continual rise in popularity amongst collectors. If we think what we say here will be forever written in stone, then the continual negative attacks against GAI can only result in a continual rise in popularity. The bottom line is that what we say here is minimal when you consider the entire hobby population.
Novocent (Al) is right in that how the heck can we determine what the grading world will look like 5-7 years from now. For fun we can take guesses and that's OK. My guess is that GAI's main focus in the future will be authentication (autographs, game worn, sports, and non-sports alike). Their card grading services may be geared towards the vintage (pre-war) card market, but not necessary modern. SGC under Dave Forman and Sean Skeffington will continue to increase in popularity and I think their registry participation will increase but not quite the extent as PSAs. It's the mid-managers, customer-service people who make PSA imo. Their efforts behind the scenes to keep a fun and interactive registry for us will result in their continued popularity in the coming years.
I am at the point in my collecting experience where I have fallen into a "flow" of knowing when to use PSA, SGC, and GAI---so at this point I am comfortable with all 3 and I cannot emphasize enough how the success of the big 3 (even include BGS if you want to) will benefit us all in the long run.
Okay, according to the man, the idea for the set registry was David Hall's who implemented it in coins. Steve tried to get him to implement it at psa and he was slow in doing so--after Steve left, it was implemented. Mike was confused because Steve kept talking about how much they needed it while they were there.
In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter who created/invented the registry...we know PSA has one and GAI has yet to get theirs fully operational. But let's say for agrument's sake, that what Steve Rocchi said is correct. I believe it would be really "pushing the envelope" to claim you had the idea for the PSA registry when you merely suggest to the guy who thought of it in the first place that it be included in another division of the company. Also, it is foolish to claim you developed the concept of a sportscard registry at your old workplace and can't get one started at your new workplace.
Jim...I stand corrected. The word "developed" was too strong of a word in my previous post. However, one would think that as soon as Steve left PSA and started GAI, the registry would have been on the top of his priority list if he was truly avid about starting one at PSA. The registry they have now is a joke, it doesn't work yet it is still left up on the website for all to see. Better to not have one at all, then to publish something half-hearted and unprofessional imo.
By not having a functioning registry Global is probably better off . The registry is for collectors and at this point I can't see a Global registry taking off. A Global registry would probably only accentuate the current lack of interest collectors have in their slabbed cards.
I think part of the problem that GAI is suffering from is that PSA basically refuses to cross their cards over. Any SGC card I've sent in for cross has been done at the appropriate level; every GAI card has been rejected either as trimmed or not reaching the minimum grade. This gives a perception that GAI is inferior and also discourages PSA set registry collectors from buying GAI cards with the hope of a crossover. I suppose it is good business on PSA's part but, of course, dishonest. Anyone who collects cards for years can tell when a card is trimmed or overgraded. I've had GAI 9s not get crossed into PSA 8s and obviously untrimmed GAI cards come back from PSA as trimmed....
<< <i>I think part of the problem that GAI is suffering from is that PSA basically refuses to cross their cards over. Any SGC card I've sent in for cross has been done at the appropriate level; every GAI card has been rejected either as trimmed or not reaching the minimum grade. This gives a perception that GAI is inferior and also discourages PSA set registry collectors from buying GAI cards with the hope of a crossover. I suppose it is good business on PSA's part but, of course, dishonest. Anyone who collects cards for years can tell when a card is trimmed or overgraded. I've had GAI 9s not get crossed into PSA 8s and obviously untrimmed GAI cards come back from PSA as trimmed.... >>
I agree with you. Also, when will the government admit that the moon landing was staged on a movie set?
Not to mention that Elvis was the actual shooter in the Kennedy assassination ...
I'm afraid you are horribly wrong. It wasn't Elvis - the shooter was actually Frank Sinatra, who was PO'ed at JFK for stealing his girlfriend (s). Elvis was just watching from the grassy knoll.
I cau........ght you knocking at my cellar door I love you Stevie can I have some more I.....ve seen the cards and the damage done The half of a grade bump in everyone Every graders like a setting sun ooooooooh oh what could been.
BGS? as one of the big three. Has anybody ever louped a 1980's O-pee-Chee hockey card from BGS. A friend of mine had a 1984-85 OPC Cam Neely RC. BGS 9.5. I've opened vending cases from the 80's and have never even come close to the quality of one of their so called BGS 9.5 cards for perfect centering, lazor cut edges and needle point corners. What vending or wax cases is the BGS submitter finding these in. I trust PSA 100 % with my cards and would never even think of grading with anybody else.
<< <i>I spoke with Mike Baker and he says that Steve Rocchi deserves 90% of the credit for the idea and the implementation of the PSA Set Registry. >>
I thought this was incorrect when I first read it. I was pretty sure David Hall was responsible for most if not the entire set registry concept when it first started but I wasn't positive so I'm glad BJ could clarify. I guess Baker just made a mistake or forgot himself.
aconte >>
I remember reading a post where David Hall came up with the concept while trading 1952 Topps cards w/ two other "advanced" collectors. Does anyone remeber that post?
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I'd like to set the record straight on the genesis of the Registry concept.
The Registry idea was first conceived by David Hall around 1996 or 1997 first for PCGS and then for PSA. The first Registry booklet was published in 1998.
In 2000, Brent Gutekunst, who was the president of the Internet division of Collectors Universe at the time, gave me the idea of taking the program online.
Working in stealth mode with our IT department, because I feared the project might be squashed, I implemented the online program, first for PCGS. I launched it in February, 2001. It was an instant success. My boss, David Hall, loved it and told me to get the PSA Registry online as soon as possible. I launched PSA's Registry in June of the same year. I launched the PSE Registry in December, 2003. This year you'll see the launch of the Currency Registry as well as expansions of both the PSA and PCGS Registries.
David Hall deserves the credit for the Registry concept. To the best my of knowledge, Steve Rocchi had nothing to do with its concept and he certainly had no involvement whatsoever with its implementation. >>
BJ,
I hope you received a rather large bonus!!
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I do. It was written by Marshall Fogle who was describing how he and Charlie Merkel split up a large number of high-grade 52 Topps. I don't recall the discussion about the set registry in there but it could well have been. That was an entertaing story by Marshall.
I do. It was written by Marshall Fogle who was describing how he and Charlie Merkel split up a large number of high-grade 52 Topps. I don't recall the discussion about the set registry in there but it could well have been. That was an entertaing story by Marshall.
Jim >>
Jim,
That's exactly what it was - thank you.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
different slant - were the high volume modern dealers (dslsports, 4sc, jtcards) nearly as big before the registry? were they even well known before then?
All I know is that I was so disgruntled at the way the hobby was going in modern cards with BGS (see ensuing post) that I was about to get completely out of the hobby. Once the Set Registry came along, I regained a passion for certain sets/player sets that not only kept me in but energized me back to the hobby.
As for the player set vs. manufacturer set discussion, I have passionately pursued both types and will continue to add on both sides in the future, much as I collected in my youth. Certainly the Player Sets have spurred collecting of obscure, rare items items of our favorite players that I, for one, get a kick out of collecting. I deeply appreciate what the Registry has done in that regard.
As for assigning credit for the idea, I am more interested in giving kudos to the folks who actually implemented the idea and continue to maintain it. THANK YOU BJ ET AL!!!!!
<< <i>different slant - were the high volume modern dealers (dslsports, 4sc, jtcards) nearly as big before the registry? were they even well known before then? >>
A VERY good point, to which I can only speculate that they were not.
Actually, DSL was around, but you saw mostly stars being graded. 4SC and JT captilaized on the set grading craze and saw the $$$ some commons could garner and dived head first into the grading game.
Comments
You are saying you would tell that to Baker and Rocchi?
as Al Gore is to internet.
Whoops he is backing out.
That would have been one of the highlights of the year is 1420 Sports telling Rocchi and Baker that their company is equal to Pro.
We could have gotten a big crowd for that.
I'm still waiiting for the outpouring of people who think that Pro and GAI are equal Ron--
I really would like to know.
<< <i>Hey, I just want to know why it would be good entertainment. Tell me davillo, what would they do?
I really would like to know. >>
evidently, you havent heard.. not only did they invent the registry, Rocchi & Baker also taught martial arts to Chuck Norris..
i'm guessing they would break out the nunchuks and go kung fu on your ass?..
<< <i>I spoke with Mike Baker and he says that Steve Rocchi deserves 90% of the credit for the idea and the implementation of the PSA Set Registry. >>
I thought this was incorrect when I first read it. I was pretty sure David Hall was responsible for most if
not the entire set registry concept when it first started but I wasn't positive so I'm glad BJ could clarify.
I guess Baker just made a mistake or forgot himself.
aconte
aconte
There has been tons of documentation of people trimming cards themselves and submitting them to Pro and getting Pro 9s.
Since the two were equal in your eyes, I think the person who is widely thought of as the best grader in the hobby would get a kick out of hearing all your evidence.
Certainly the audience would.
but it would only be 90% effort and the event would have to be postponed until Monday
I believe that would depend on the audience. I know of a good juggler for the opening act.
and comparing them to PRO was wrong. I will admit that. PRO would not lose your submission however, and would ship in a timely manner.
<< <i>Very interesting thread!
I'd like to set the record straight on the genesis of the Registry concept.
The Registry idea was first conceived by David Hall around 1996 or 1997 first for PCGS and then for PSA. The first Registry booklet was published in 1998.
In 2000, Brent Gutekunst, who was the president of the Internet division of Collectors Universe at the time, gave me the idea of taking the program online.
Working in stealth mode with our IT department, because I feared the project might be squashed, I implemented the online program, first for PCGS. I launched it in February, 2001. It was an instant success. My boss, David Hall, loved it and told me to get the PSA Registry online as soon as possible. I launched PSA's Registry in June of the same year. I launched the PSE Registry in December, 2003. This year you'll see the launch of the Currency Registry as well as expansions of both the PSA and PCGS Registries.
David Hall deserves the credit for the Registry concept. To the best my of knowledge, Steve Rocchi had nothing to do with its concept and he certainly had no involvement whatsoever with its implementation. >>
To back up what BJ said. I believe David Hall mad a similar post a couple of years back when this question came up. If someone is good at searches they may be able to find it .
I have also been around long enough to remember that 1420sports was very supportive of giving GAI a chance when they first came on the scene. He discovered what not to like about them on his own . I do not believe is just waving the PSA banner without some experience dealing with GAI
End of debate.
<< <i>"Comparing them to Pro was wrong. I will admit that."
End of debate. >>
Dav i believe what he meant was that PRO's customer service is better than GAI's
There is a positive correlation with the recent onslaught of complaints against GAI (I've made some myself) in the last several months on various boards and their continual rise in popularity amongst collectors. If we think what we say here will be forever written in stone, then the continual negative attacks against GAI can only result in a continual rise in popularity. The bottom line is that what we say here is minimal when you consider the entire hobby population.
Novocent (Al) is right in that how the heck can we determine what the grading world will look like 5-7 years from now. For fun we can take guesses and that's OK. My guess is that GAI's main focus in the future will be authentication (autographs, game worn, sports, and non-sports alike). Their card grading services may be geared towards the vintage (pre-war) card market, but not necessary modern. SGC under Dave Forman and Sean Skeffington will continue to increase in popularity and I think their registry participation will increase but not quite the extent as PSAs. It's the mid-managers, customer-service people who make PSA imo. Their efforts behind the scenes to keep a fun and interactive registry for us will result in their continued popularity in the coming years.
I am at the point in my collecting experience where I have fallen into a "flow" of knowing when to use PSA, SGC, and GAI---so at this point I am comfortable with all 3 and I cannot emphasize enough how the success of the big 3 (even include BGS if you want to) will benefit us all in the long run.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
<< <i>nunchuks >>
Mike was confused because Steve kept talking about how much they needed it while they were there.
I think they obviously needed it at GAI ... it should have been implemented alongside the launch of GAI itself.
Any idea on why Steve, who apparently was a big supporter of the PSA registry, didn't start one right away at global? Or ever, for that matter.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
Steve isn't claiming that--I think he was just pushing for the implementation of David Hall's idea at PSA.
Jim
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
<< <i>Maybe they need a BJ at GAI? >>
couldn't hurt..
<< <i>I think part of the problem that GAI is suffering from is that PSA basically refuses to cross their cards over. Any SGC card I've sent in for cross has been done at the appropriate level; every GAI card has been rejected either as trimmed or not reaching the minimum grade. This gives a perception that GAI is inferior and also discourages PSA set registry collectors from buying GAI cards with the hope of a crossover. I suppose it is good business on PSA's part but, of course, dishonest. Anyone who collects cards for years can tell when a card is trimmed or overgraded. I've had GAI 9s not get crossed into PSA 8s and obviously untrimmed GAI cards come back from PSA as trimmed.... >>
I agree with you.
Also, when will the government admit that the moon landing was staged on a movie set?
Not to mention that Elvis was the actual shooter in the Kennedy assassination ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
I'm afraid you are horribly wrong. It wasn't Elvis - the shooter was actually Frank Sinatra, who was PO'ed at JFK for stealing his girlfriend (s). Elvis was just watching from the grassy knoll.
SW
<< <i>
<< <i>"Comparing them to Pro was wrong. I will admit that."
End of debate. >>
Dav i believe what he meant was that PRO's customer service is better than GAI's >>
PRO trimmed my invoce once!!!
I cau........ght you knocking at my cellar door
I love you Stevie can I have some more
I.....ve seen the cards and the damage done
The half of a grade bump in everyone
Every graders like a setting sun
ooooooooh oh what could been.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>
<< <i>I spoke with Mike Baker and he says that Steve Rocchi deserves 90% of the credit for the idea and the implementation of the PSA Set Registry. >>
I thought this was incorrect when I first read it. I was pretty sure David Hall was responsible for most if
not the entire set registry concept when it first started but I wasn't positive so I'm glad BJ could clarify.
I guess Baker just made a mistake or forgot himself.
aconte >>
I remember reading a post where David Hall came up with the concept while trading 1952 Topps cards w/ two other "advanced" collectors. Does anyone remeber that post?
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Very interesting thread!
I'd like to set the record straight on the genesis of the Registry concept.
The Registry idea was first conceived by David Hall around 1996 or 1997 first for PCGS and then for PSA. The first Registry booklet was published in 1998.
In 2000, Brent Gutekunst, who was the president of the Internet division of Collectors Universe at the time, gave me the idea of taking the program online.
Working in stealth mode with our IT department, because I feared the project might be squashed, I implemented the online program, first for PCGS. I launched it in February, 2001. It was an instant success. My boss, David Hall, loved it and told me to get the PSA Registry online as soon as possible. I launched PSA's Registry in June of the same year. I launched the PSE Registry in December, 2003. This year you'll see the launch of the Currency Registry as well as expansions of both the PSA and PCGS Registries.
David Hall deserves the credit for the Registry concept. To the best my of knowledge, Steve Rocchi had nothing to do with its concept and he certainly had no involvement whatsoever with its implementation. >>
BJ,
I hope you received a rather large bonus!!
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
I do. It was written by Marshall Fogle who was describing how he and Charlie Merkel split up a large number of high-grade 52 Topps. I don't recall the discussion about the set registry in there but it could well have been. That was an entertaing story by Marshall.
Jim
<< <i>Greg,
I do. It was written by Marshall Fogle who was describing how he and Charlie Merkel split up a large number of high-grade 52 Topps. I don't recall the discussion about the set registry in there but it could well have been. That was an entertaing story by Marshall.
Jim >>
Jim,
That's exactly what it was - thank you.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Marshall Fogel Part 1
Fogel Part 2
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
As for the player set vs. manufacturer set discussion, I have passionately pursued both types and will continue to add on both sides in the future, much as I collected in my youth. Certainly the Player Sets have spurred collecting of obscure, rare items items of our favorite players that I, for one, get a kick out of collecting. I deeply appreciate what the Registry has done in that regard.
As for assigning credit for the idea, I am more interested in giving kudos to the folks who actually implemented the idea and continue to maintain it. THANK YOU BJ ET AL!!!!!
<< <i>different slant - were the high volume modern dealers (dslsports, 4sc, jtcards) nearly as big before the registry? were they even well known before then? >>
A VERY good point, to which I can only speculate that they were not.