Guess the Circulated Grade (PCGS Bust Half) ::GRADE REVEALED::

braddick

Do you find it easier to grade circulated coins within your area of expertise or uncirculated coins? For example, if you're a Morgan collector, are the circulated coins easier to grade? Uncirculated? Are you better at knowing what a VG08 is vs a FN15? Or, is determining a MS63 easier for you than an MS64?
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Here's a PCGS 1806 Bust half. Guess the grade. (This isn't some tricked out "guess the grade" made to make the submitter of the question feel superior and the guesser less so. I think PCGS got this one right, so go with your gut instinct on this one.)



Full slab shown below. . .

Pushkin

F-12

rhedden

PCGS VG-8. Possibly downgraded to G06 because of the obverse scratch?

mirabela

I'm reading that as a hair on the holder & not a scratch. Assuming I'm right, VG8.

I have an easier time with circ coins than I do with MS60-62. 63-65 is a little easier for me.

fc

f12 was my first gut reaction.

i see the first poster agrees.

since i study only one series and even then concentrate
of P and S mints, i am finding i can guess the grade quite well
at all grade levels.

put a buff in front of me though, and i choke up bigtime.

grip

Not quite VG 8.How about a 7
Al

braddick

<< <i>PCGS VG-8. Possibly downgraded to G06 because of the obverse scratch? >>

Not a scratch- but you wouldn't have known that unless I tell you it is a a piece of lint laying on top of the holder (from the felt background). I didn't spot it until after the photos were taken.

p8nt

Mint state is much easier for me because I have had experience in it. As I widen my realm of numismatic experiences/sights I am getting better and now know pretty well XF and AU grades as well.

morgannut2

My gut was VG-8 on the bust. I like it in terms of low Fine value. On Morgans the main problem is between PQ 64s and 65's, and knowing the strikes for that date. Then also 67's and 68's. Otherwise they're pretty easy if you have the coin in your hand---

billboat

VG8--I like the look of this coin.

TorinoCobra71

G-6

TC71

LindeDad

VG-8 Full rims and full date and as stated before no danage.
Most of the lower to XF are easier for me to grade in the Half Dollars. Most of the others I read the plastic.

Myqqy

That looks like a gorgeous vg8 to me. And I spend more time with uncirculated morgans than anything else, so I feel pretty comfortable assessing grades in that range....

billboat

Took another look at this and it appears to be an O-114 (R5)--rare (30 to 80 known per Overton 3rd edition). Need to have the Bust experts check it out but that's what it looks like to me.

Edit: If it's the O-114 the rarity rating is now R4--very scarce--80 to 200--according to the August 2004 update. Also I forgot to answer your other question--I'm comfortable with G4 through MS65 Morgans, AU through 63 Peace, and circulated Bust coinage. Not worth a damn with copper or nickle coinage--especially Buffalos--but I don't collect in those areas except for type coins.

grip

Is it that hard to add what the diagnostics for the 0-114 rarity is?You know,for the dummies

DickyBetz

VG08

291fifth

VG8.

Coin Finder

VG 10

Pat, I find it difficult to grade early copper in vf and above. Since there is so little of it in UNC, I would not do very well.

Tbig

09sVDB

My first thought was G-6

billboat

Grip---If it is the O-114 (which I'm fairly sure of), the diagnostics include but aren't limited to; Obverse: double cut TY in Liberty (very clear in this picture) center dot below and to left of ear, 1 in date nearly touches curl; Reverse: 5 berries with 3 below the branch (lowest with short stem, middle touches leaf above, and upper has thick stem),, lower right serif of F missing and bases of ME nearly touch, also letters large and nearly touch milling. (Taken from Overton 3rd Ed pg 94) Stman, Nysoto, et.al. can confirm or elaborate.

grip

billboat
Thanks! Appreciate that.
Al

Baley

Not quite VG 8.How about a 7

Exactly what I was thinking. Darn nice PCGS G-6 is my guess.

edit: to answer the question, yes, I find circulated draped bust halves easier to grade.

that, and I've never seen an uncirculated one in person.

DennisH

VG10

My specialty area is Morgan dollars and, in general, I find the Mint State grades easier than the circulated grades.

mgoodm3

VG8. I'm better at MS/PR grades than at circ grades.

OKbustchaser

Billboat,

I think it is the O-116, not the 114. Check out the relationship between the leaf and the I on the reverse. On the 114 it points to the right base of the I, on the 116 it point to the center. Same obverse die on both marriages.

As for the original questions, I find it easier to grade circulated coins than to grade uncirculated unless one goes back to adjectives again. (I have no problem, for example telling a select BU but as to whether or not it is 63 or 64 that is tougher. Same with gems...but 65 or 66 is hard.

Like most of the others I would probably call this one a strong VG.

Jim

billboat

Jim--As I said, wait for the pros to check in--You're probably right--the lack of the die crack from the date through S2 fooled me and I ruled out O-116 but looking at the obverse leaf to I orientation makes your point . So now it's an R3?
Bill

braddick

Thanks for everyone and your guesses/opinions.

Here's the full holder:



I've enjoyed this coin having purchased it raw back in the mid-eighties. I actually had it at one time PCGS graded (same grade I believe... old green insert) and cracked it out to place in a second set of raw Dansco types only to subsequently about four years later have it graded again (mostly for protection).

You guys are good! Just about everyone was within a couple of points or so.

DennisH

Is it Good-06 because the denticles on the lower reverse are worn away?

billboat

Never thought I'd say this but the coin looks even better in the complete slab photo--to quote the younger generation--it rocks! Still think it's closer to a VG8 but who am I to argue with PCGS (you'd think they would attribute). It's been a great thread!

Coin Finder

Boy was I off. Looks better than G 06 to me. Nice coin Pat

Tbig

Nysoto

A fast method of attributing heraldic eagle reverses is the lowest berry to A relationship, in this case quickly eliminates 114. The 115 and 116 reverses are very similar, the lowest berry is just a bit more left on 115. Confirmation is from the star alignment, this coin is O.115. Die state should not really be used for attribution, but all 116's have an obverse crack, early 115's don't have a obv crack.

PCGS is tough on circulated draped busts, this is really a borderline G6/VG8 coin. Ownership can add a point or two, the owner of this coin could call it a VG8 without much guilt. PCGS also uses the rims a lot for grading these, they like almost full rims for VG8, and I have seen coins, especially flowing hair halves, that PCGS graded as high as VF without any reverse detail on eagle, because of strong rims. NGC is more lenient with weak rims.

OKbustchaser

Ok, Pat...

Who are you going to believe? Me-a guy who actually owns 2 1806's--or some guy who for some strange reason thinks that draped bust halves are neater than those with caps--even if he DOES own a world class draped half collection?






Nice call, Bill and thanks for the pointer on lowest berry vs A. I actually did know that all 116's have the die crack, just a brain freeze.

Jim



Edited to add: Pat, The coin has now gone from R-5 to R-4 to R-3 to now a R-1...any more attributions and it will be so common you will have to pay someone to take it off your hands!

grip

As Bill said.Great thread!.
Al