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Is the market really hot, or has the definition of the market been changed to make it appear so?

291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
I increasingly get the feeling that the portion of the coin market that is "hot" is actually just a small segment that appeals to the very wealthy. Is this what is now meant when people refer to the "market?"

All glory is fleeting.

Comments

  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I had tracked several lots in the recent ANR auction from $300 to $1500 and some I bid on. They all went for too much money compared to other recent sales with a couple of exceptions. I would say the strength is there and somewhat broad. I was tracking IHC's, barber quarters and some morgans.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From what I can tell, if a particular coin has average or better eye appeal and may be part of a registry set, the market is hot, especially so if the coin has color.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As seen most recently in the ANR sale, cool, fresh coins are bringing strong money. Overgraded, overprocessed, and overabundant coins languish. Frankly, I find that these two statements together bode well for the hobby, and I certainly care much more about the hobby than I do the market.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As seen most recently in the ANR sale, cool, fresh coins are bringing strong money. Overgraded, overprocessed, and overabundant coins languish. Frankly, I find that these two statements together bode well for the hobby, and I certainly care much more about the hobby than I do the market.


    my gosh, that was well said! image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    Similar to the stock market, there are many different aspects and segments to the coin market, and some are still strong and some are definately not. In general though I would speculate that the market as a whole has leveled off and is no longer 'hot' and in many cases overpriced and over hyped, however there are exceptions.

    I no longer use auction prices realized as accurate guidelines anymore because I think too many bidders are afflicted with 'auction fever' and are chasing and way overpaying for many items at auction these days, many times way over what a very similar piece would sell for on the bourse floor or a dealers retail price list.
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,062 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I no longer use auction prices realized as accurate guidelines anymore >>

    What do you use?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the market really hot, or has the definition of the market been changed to make it appear so?

    Or, has the definition of "hot" been changed to make it appear so? image
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,169 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I no longer use auction prices realized as accurate guidelines anymore >>

    What do you use? >>

    1957 Red Book.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    << I no longer use auction prices realized as accurate guidelines anymore >>

    What do you use?



    i am starting to agree with the above poster.
    i can find better deals right now in dealers inventory then i can
    on ebay/heritage/anr.

    so i would use a dealer's website as a more accurate guide then
    some segment's auction fever.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so i would use a dealer's website as a more accurate guide then
    some segment's auction fever.

    The problem with that is:
    1) You do not know how much the coins brought, only what the list price was.
    2) The longer a coin lingers in an inventory, the more likely the list price is too high.
    3) For many active dealers, only a small fraction of the coins sold are first listed on the website.
    etc.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Define Hot.

    Coins seem to be selling very nicely within the venues that I have to use to obtain them. If the market was not strong probably a person could buy just about any coin he wanted at the price he wanted. Is anyone able to do this now ?

    I gave up on auctions about 6 months ago. Nothing could be purchased at a reasonable price or the stuff looked like junk or the descriptions were bogus or a hidden reserve was in place or....you get the picture.

    Ken
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I'd be uncomfortable using dealer list prices as a basis of determining current market value for any given coin. For a multitude of reasons.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The best way to determine the underlying bullishness of a coin market is to look at the tier III part of the market.

    The real collectors market that is. Common wheat cents, common buffalo nickels, liberty head nickels, mercury dimes, washington quarters, etc. All signs in the tier III part of the coin hobby is very strong with more and more buyers outpacing the number of sellers.

    Wheat cents for instance, broke all time highs recently and cannot be attributed to copper commodity prices.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I no longer use auction prices realized as accurate guidelines anymore >>

    What do you use? >>




    I try to use a combo of dealer ask prices on the floor of large shows and sometimes the Greysheet and sometimes retail prices list to figure a fair price for many pieces I'd be interested in.

    I see too often these days fairly common replaceable coins selling for absurd money at large auctions because you have either newbs or people with more money than brains chasing coins and bidding them up to levels far exceeding what they could just be purchased for at nearly any show.

    When I place what I feel is a strong bid for a fairly common date/grade coin and it sells for 2-3X my max bid.......that's just 'auction fever' and not reality of current pricing for other coins of that grade and date. I also think many bidders see pics of auction lots online and bid them through the roof thinking they are much nicer than they really may be in hand. Of course the consignors sure aren't complaining, LOLOL.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    ryk,

    we discussed some half eagles that Joe had.
    imagine the better dates were sold at baltimore in a matter
    of an hour..

    yet you called them the last of the coins to move in his deal,
    therefore must not be very nice...

    i said they were priced strong because Joe knew what he had.
    people wish to dicker with him and he said no.

    well they are gone at his prices. Mark was too late at his table
    for me to get him to look.

    Joe is fricking estatic. 25,000 appears to have been offered
    for his 64S.

  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    cladiator,

    after thinking it through a bit and reading RYK's post..
    i am rethinking my original position.

    but the orig poster does have a point about auction fever!


  • << <i>As seen most recently in the ANR sale, cool, fresh coins are bringing strong money. Overgraded, overprocessed, and overabundant coins languish. Frankly, I find that these two statements together bode well for the hobby, and I certainly care much more about the hobby than I do the market. >>



    I would partially agree with this statement. I think it's good for the hobby that overgraded and overprocessed coins languish. But if overabundant coins are also languishing, it would seem to point to the hobby getting out of reach for the "common man," which I don't think is good long term.
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
    The auctions are driving the market. We keep reading about how sparse the pickings are for nice fresh material on the bourse. I suspect, or guess, that with auctions bringing monster prices collectors today would much rather take a shot at consigning to auction rather than sellilng to dealers. Also, read some of Road Runner's threads about selling to dealers and getting squeezed on the price or having his coins shunned outright, only to see them later offered on the market at a multiple of what he got for them.

    Then the dealers come back from the show whining about how hard it was to find anything to buy but at the same time pointing to auction prices and using that to spur their asking prices. Its sort of "if that one that sold at auction for more than it is worth, then this coin in my inventory too ought to sell for more than it is worth."

    CG
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes I think the market is really hot. I say this because the "Major" dealers (and their financial backers) come on here and say...."Look what I bought for crazy money." They tote this on their websites as well. Yes, sometimes they would like you to believe they always buy such coins for their regular inventory. Never mind they just might have been representing someone at auction. They seem to have the need to say THEY bought it for the "Headlines" heh, if ya know what I mean. Translation, I paid stupid money so should YOU!! Heh

    Of course none of this "Noise" from low-life collectors coming from a chat board means a thing. Have a great day folks.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭


    << <i>The other observation is that the major services seem to be very tough right now and they are not making many coins. >>



    That is from Doug Winter's site as reported by RYK in the Baltimore show report thread and speaks of an artificial shortage.

    If the services are not giving upgrades the dealers are going to keep coins off the market until (1) the price of the undergrade rises to the point that they can make a tidy profit, (2) they can finally get their upgrade and make a killing, (3) they have to pay down their credit line, or (4) they have to buy their girl friend a mink coat and take their wife on vacation.

    CG

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